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Thread: Does Anyone See a Problem With This?......

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2497353]Ftr, 5ever started it. But then he's a right winger.[/QUOTE]

    For the record, the warning was intended for Jets5, yourself and HD. I am not interested in who started it, only ending the name calling.

    And be advised, I would appreciate it if you refrain from questioning my Moderation integrity Blocker.

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=HDCentStOhio;2497332]Great debate strategy. Do you teach your students the same? Don't answer questions, just ask one in response. What, the 40 year old virgin your role model?[/QUOTE]

    [B][SIZE="4"]Socratic method[/SIZE][/B]

    Socratic Method (or Method of Elenchus or Socratic Debate) is a dialectic method of inquiry, largely applied to the examination of key moral concepts and first described by Plato in the Socratic Dialogues. For this, Socrates is customarily regarded as the father of Western ethics or moral philosophy.

    It is a form of philosophical inquiry. It typically involves two speakers at any one time, with one leading the discussion and the other agreeing to certain assumptions put forward for his acceptance or rejection. The method is credited to Socrates, who began to engage in such discussions with his fellow Athenians after a visit to the Oracle of Delphi. The Oracle of Delphi confirmed Socrates to be the wisest man in Athens. Socrates interpreted this as a paradox, and began utilizing the Socratic method in order to get his conundrum answered. Diogenes Laertius, however, wrote that Protagoras invented the “Socratic” method.[1][2]

    [B]The practice involves asking a series of questions surrounding a central issue, and answering questions of the others involved. Generally, this involves the defense of one point of view against another and is oppositional. The best way to 'win' is to make the opponent contradict themselves in some way that proves the inquirer's own point[/B].

    Plato famously formalized the Socratic Elenctic style in prose — presenting Socrates as the curious questioner of some prominent Athenian interlocutor — in some of his early dialogues, such as Euthyphro or Ion, and the method is most commonly found within the so-called "Socratic dialogues", which generally portray Socrates engaging in the method and questioning his fellow citizens about moral and epistemological issues.

    The term Socratic Questioning is used to describe a kind of questioning in which an original question is responded to as though it were an answer. This in turn forces the first questioner to reformulate a new question in light of the progress of the discourse.

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method[/url]

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2497379]For the record, the warning was intended for Jets5, yourself and HD. I am not interested in who started it, only ending the name calling.

    And be advised, I would appreciate it if you refrain from questioning my Moderation integrity Blocker.[/QUOTE]

    Well, I think one should be concerned about who starts that sort of thing, for two reasons. One is that introduction of that sort of post tends to create exactly the back and forth that becomes an increasing problem. The person who starts down that sort of path should be blamed more. It is simple morality that one who retaliates is not as culpable as the person who initiates the bad behavior.

    Second is that those who retaliate can either do so or hope that the original offending poster will be both noticed and called upon for it. Depending on the circumstances, the latter can be a very unsatisfying approach.

    I suppose there is a third alternative, which is merely to make note of the breach of the rules without returning the favor. Kind of the Shame on you approach. It might be the Christian thing to do, too. But I doubt it will be effective.

    As for the rest of your post, I certainly have not stated that I think you have no integrity. Sorry if there is any misunderstanding there.

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2497348]

    And Blocker, in the future please resize any huge pictures you wish to post, or they will be deleted.[/QUOTE]

    No problem. Sorry about that. I don't know how to resize pics, but if they are too big, I will delete them.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2497424]Well, I think one should be concerned about who starts that sort of thing, for two reasons.[/quote]

    You can think and/or rationalize your own choice to engage in personal insults however or in whatever way you wish. When you are promoted to Moderator, you can then Moderate as you see fit.

    Till then, you'll have to live with what I think, and I made that very clear above.

    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2497424]As for the rest of your post, I certainly have not stated that I think you have no integrity. Sorry if there is any misunderstanding there.[/QUOTE]

    There is no misunderstanding, mischaracterization or any other lack of understanding on my part Blocker. You have very consciously called my integrity as a Mod into question, and you will refrain from doing so from here forward.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2497454]You can think and/or rationalize your own choice to engage in personal insults however or in whatever way you wish. When you are promoted to Moderator, you can then Moderate as you see fit.

    Till then, you'll have to live with what I think, and I made that very clear above.



    There is no misunderstanding, mischaracterization or any other lack of understanding on my part Blocker. You have very consciously called my integrity as a Mod into question, and you will refrain from doing so from here forward.[/QUOTE]

    I was merely making a suggestion and explaining my view of the dynamic in question. Of course you don't have to agree with me.

    Me, a moderator? Let me think about that one. In the meantime, how feasible do you think that really is? I mean I would not want to waste time even considering that if it were not at least a possibility.

    As for the rest, it is what it is. Duly noted.

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2497380][B][SIZE="4"]Socratic method[/SIZE][/B]

    Socratic Method (or Method of Elenchus or Socratic Debate) is a dialectic method of inquiry, largely applied to the examination of key moral concepts and first described by Plato in the Socratic Dialogues. For this, Socrates is customarily regarded as the father of Western ethics or moral philosophy.

    It is a form of philosophical inquiry. It typically involves two speakers at any one time, with one leading the discussion and the other agreeing to certain assumptions put forward for his acceptance or rejection. The method is credited to Socrates, who began to engage in such discussions with his fellow Athenians after a visit to the Oracle of Delphi. The Oracle of Delphi confirmed Socrates to be the wisest man in Athens. Socrates interpreted this as a paradox, and began utilizing the Socratic method in order to get his conundrum answered. Diogenes Laertius, however, wrote that Protagoras invented the “Socratic” method.[1][2]

    [B]The practice involves asking a series of questions surrounding a central issue, and answering questions of the others involved. Generally, this involves the defense of one point of view against another and is oppositional. The best way to 'win' is to make the opponent contradict themselves in some way that proves the inquirer's own point[/B].

    Plato famously formalized the Socratic Elenctic style in prose — presenting Socrates as the curious questioner of some prominent Athenian interlocutor — in some of his early dialogues, such as Euthyphro or Ion, and the method is most commonly found within the so-called "Socratic dialogues", which generally portray Socrates engaging in the method and questioning his fellow citizens about moral and epistemological issues.

    The term Socratic Questioning is used to describe a kind of questioning in which an original question is responded to as though it were an answer. This in turn forces the first questioner to reformulate a new question in light of the progress of the discourse.

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method[/url][/QUOTE]



    This isn't law school, it's an internet message board.

    How is this a danger to democracy, exactly?

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2497328]The way the MSM ignored his candidacy was a factor, but hardly the only one.

    I also believe the Identity Politics holding sway over Democratic Primary voters was a bigger factor.

    Anyway, let's make this an ad hominem attack on me rather than a discussion of the issue, right?[/QUOTE]

    I am pretty sure I mentioned one of your beliefs (the MSM conspiracy/ignoring). That is substantive, no ad hominen and, ironically, it was in response to an ad hominen strawman from you.

    I think Edwards' positions on issues may have also been a factor, no?

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2497531]I am pretty sure I mentioned one of your beliefs (the MSM conspiracy/ignoring). That is substantive, no ad hominen and, ironically, it was in response to an ad hominen strawman from you.

    I think Edwards' positions on issues may have also been a factor, no?[/QUOTE]

    Sigh.

    Since I don't use strawmen in arguments, I am sure I don't know what you are talking about.

    Your reference to my understanding of what happened to Edwards at the hands of the MSM really is not relevant to whether it is a good thing that Murdoch's empire is growing, unchecked. It instead an ad hominem argument that basically was meant to say, why should we listen to your POV, you thought that Edwards was unfairly treated by the MSM!

    No, you were engaging in off the point ad hominem arguments.

    I am not sure you have any coherent pov, let alone plausible explanation, as to why the Edwards campaign failed. I think I do, but this thread was about Murdoch's expansion. Or was until we (you) started talking about fairies and my views of how the MSM treated Edwards.

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2497497]This isn't law school, it's an internet message board.

    How is this a danger to democracy, exactly?[/QUOTE]

    no its not law school. The socratic method is an instructional strategy employed by teachers from time to time to make a point. It was a response to HD's embarrasing drivel about how a teacher could answer a question by asking one?!

    to your point; the lack of a free media can have devastating consequences on a democratic society. If the media message is controled and fixed, then you can have a society that will be controlled and fixed. You can change reality and alter history for that matter. If one entity gains too much control in a media outlet, they can manipulate or change reaction to events based on how they choose to report a story. They can also change the significance of events by under or overreporting a story.

    There are thousands of ways in which news can be manipulated by a media that is driven by the agenda of only a few voices. Its why MSNBC underreports good news about the war. And its why Fox News shows car chases when a scandal breaks about a republican figure. Without varied opinions and points of views from TV and newspapers, there will be limited voices who would be able to vet out what is real from what is fabricated.
    Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 04-23-2008 at 03:23 PM.

  11. #51
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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2497572]to your point; the lack of a free media can have devastating consequences on a democratic society. If the media message is controled and fixed, then you can have a society that will be controlled and fixed. You can change reality and alter history for that matter. If one entity gains too much control in a media outlet, they can manipulate or change reaction to events based on how they choose to report a story. They can also change the significance of events by under or overreporting a story.

    There are thousands of ways in which news can be manipulated by a media that is driven by the agenda of only a few voices. Its why MSNBC underreports good news about the war. And its why Fox News shows car chases when a scandal breaks about a republican figure.[/QUOTE]

    Sadly, I can't tell whether some posters here literally do not understand the foregoing, which should be obvious, or are just pretending not to in order to avoid making concessions to the truth on a political message board, heaven forbid.

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2497572]no its not law school. The socratic method is an instructional strategy employed by teachers from time to time to make a point. It was a response to HD's embarrasing drivel about how a teacher could answer a question by asking one?!

    to your point; the lack of a free media can have devastating consequences on a democratic society. If the media message is controled and fixed, then you can have a society that will be controlled and fixed. You can change reality and alter history for that matter. If one entity gains too much control in a media outlet, they can manipulate or change reaction to events based on how they choose to report a story. They can also change the significance of events by under or overreporting a story.

    There are thousands of ways in which news can be manipulated by a media that is driven by the agenda of only a few voices. Its why MSNBC underreports good news about the war. And its why Fox News shows car chases when a scandal breaks about a republican figure. Without varied opinions and points of views from TV and newspapers, there will be limited voices who would be able to vet out what is real from what is fabricated.[/QUOTE]

    Everyone unsderstands this. The argument is over whether RM's business acquisitions constitutes media that is "controlled" and "fixed." You guys think it is a BFD, others don't. The factual errors on your side simply devastate your assertions to nothing more than normal liberal sanctimony and emotion, wrapped as insight. There is more media "choice" available now that at any point in history. You guys are simply being immature.

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2497582]Sadly, I can't tell whether some posters here literally do not understand the foregoing, which should be obvious, or are just pretending not to in order to avoid making concessions to the truth on a political message board, heaven forbid.[/QUOTE]

    Blocker, I truly believe that its more important for some posters to be right rather then to try and understand a point of view. To say that there is no danger with a media conglomerate controlling a large percentage of a local media is embarrassing and foolish. The argument that we should not complain because it could always be worse ranks among the silliest things I have read here in a while.

  14. #54
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    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2497562]Sigh.

    Since I don't use strawmen in arguments, I am sure I don't know what you are talking about.

    Your reference to my understanding of what happened to Edwards at the hands of the MSM really is not relevant to whether it is a good thing that Murdoch's empire is growing, unchecked. It instead an ad hominem argument that basically was meant to say, why should we listen to your POV, you thought that Edwards was unfairly treated by the MSM!

    No, you were engaging in off the point ad hominem arguments.

    I am not sure you have any coherent pov, let alone plausible explanation, as to why the Edwards campaign failed. I think I do, but this thread was about Murdoch's expansion. Or was until we (you) started talking about fairies and my views of how the MSM treated Edwards.[/QUOTE]


    I honestly didn't remember if that was you. It's hard to keep you guys sraight sometimes.

    "Blind faith in big business" - not a strawman?

    Murdoch's empire is NOT growing unchecked and to assert something liek that is folly.

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2497605]Blocker, I truly believe that its more important for some posters to be right rather then to try and understand a point of view. To say that there is no danger with a media conglomerate controlling a large percentage of a local media is embarrassing and foolish. The argument that we should not complain because it could always be worse ranks among the silliest things I have read here in a while.[/QUOTE]

    That was an [I]insult[/I], not an argument. My GOD.

    You essentially admitted to being a silly person on this thread. Now you're Joe Serious all of a sudden? Read a book, Francis.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=Big Blocker;2496976]What I find amusing is the deference to authority, as if one should be comfortable that media owned by Murdoch will somehow always be okay with the poster in question.

    It might even reflect a "Murdoch knows best!" viewpoint.

    I find that... unsettling.[/QUOTE]so how is Murdoch buying Newsday a threat to democracy,seriously.

  17. #57
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    Can someone list what Media Outlets and in what markets Murdoch would own now please? I'd be interested to see the entire list in one go.

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2497380][B][SIZE="4"]Socratic method[/SIZE][/B]

    Socratic Method (or Method of Elenchus or Socratic Debate) is a dialectic method of inquiry, largely applied to the examination of key moral concepts and first described by Plato in the Socratic Dialogues. For this, Socrates is customarily regarded as the father of Western ethics or moral philosophy.

    It is a form of philosophical inquiry. It typically involves two speakers at any one time, with one leading the discussion and the other agreeing to certain assumptions put forward for his acceptance or rejection. The method is credited to Socrates, who began to engage in such discussions with his fellow Athenians after a visit to the Oracle of Delphi. The Oracle of Delphi confirmed Socrates to be the wisest man in Athens. Socrates interpreted this as a paradox, and began utilizing the Socratic method in order to get his conundrum answered. Diogenes Laertius, however, wrote that Protagoras invented the “Socratic” method.[1][2]

    [B]The practice involves asking a series of questions surrounding a central issue, and answering questions of the others involved. Generally, this involves the defense of one point of view against another and is oppositional. The best way to 'win' is to make the opponent contradict themselves in some way that proves the inquirer's own point[/B].

    Plato famously formalized the Socratic Elenctic style in prose — presenting Socrates as the curious questioner of some prominent Athenian interlocutor — in some of his early dialogues, such as Euthyphro or Ion, and the method is most commonly found within the so-called "Socratic dialogues", which generally portray Socrates engaging in the method and questioning his fellow citizens about moral and epistemological issues.

    The term Socratic Questioning is used to describe a kind of questioning in which an original question is responded to as though it were an answer. This in turn forces the first questioner to reformulate a new question in light of the progress of the discourse.

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socratic_method[/url][/QUOTE ] Dr Pretentious strikes again.

  19. #59
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    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2497597]Everyone unsderstands this. The argument is over whether RM's business acquisitions constitutes media that is "controlled" and "fixed." You guys think it is a BFD, others don't. The factual errors on your side simply devastate your assertions to nothing more than normal liberal sanctimony and emotion, wrapped as insight. [B][SIZE="5"]There is more media "choice" available now that at any point in history. [/SIZE][/B] You guys are simply being immature.[/QUOTE]

    This reminds me of the scene in the godfather when kate says;
    Diane Keaton (Kay): Do you know how naive you sound, Michael? Presidents and senators don't have men killed!
    Al Pacino (Michael): Oh. Who's being naive, Kay?

    When you make a statement like the one that is highlighted, you sound naive. You actually believe that because there are more channels that means we have varied opinions?........

    [url]http://www.freepress.net/ownership/chart/main[/url]

  20. #60
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2497629]Can someone list what Media Outlets and in what markets Murdoch would own now please? I'd be interested to see the entire list in one go.[/QUOTE]

    This was a list as of 2007. it does not include the Wall Street Journal or any transaction from 07 on.
    It is factual and it is expanding.....

    [B]Television[/B]
    Fox Broadcasting Company
    Fox Television Stations
    WNYW - New York City
    WWOR - New York City
    KTTV - Los Angeles
    KCOP - Los Angeles
    WFLD - Chicago
    WPWR - Chicago
    KMSP - Minneapolis
    WFTC - Minneapolis
    WTXF - Philadelphia
    WFXT - Boston
    WTTG - Washington D.C.
    WDCA - Washington D.C.
    KDFW - Dallas
    KDFI - Dallas
    WJBK - Detroit
    KUTP - Phoenix
    KSAZ - Phoenix
    WUTB - Baltimore
    WRBW - Orlando
    WOFL - Orlando
    WOGX - Ocala
    WAGA - Atlanta
    KRIV - Houston
    KTXH - Houston
    WJW - Cleveland
    WTVT - Tampa
    KDVR - Denver
    KTVI - St. Louis
    WITI - Milwaukee
    WDAF - Kansas City
    KSTU - Salt Lake City
    WHBQ - Memphis
    WGHP - Greensboro
    WBRC - Birmingham
    KTBC - Austin
    DBS & Cable
    FOXTEL
    BSkyB
    Star
    DirecTV
    Sky Italia
    Fox News Channel
    Fox Movie Channel
    FX
    FUEL
    National Geographic Channel
    SPEED Channel

    Fox Sports Net
    FSN New England (50%)
    FSN Ohio
    FSN Florida
    National Advertising Partners
    Fox College Sports
    Fox Soccer Channel
    Stats, Inc.
    Film
    20th Century Fox
    Fox Searchlight Pictures
    Fox Television Studios
    Blue Sky Studios
    [B]Newspapers[/B]
    United States
    New York Post
    United Kingdom
    News International
    News of the World
    The Sun
    The Sunday Times
    The Times
    Australia
    Daily Telegraph
    Fiji Times
    Gold Coast Bulletin
    Herald Sun
    Newsphotos
    Newspix
    Newstext
    NT News
    Post-Courier
    Sunday Herald Sun
    Sunday Mail
    Sunday Tasmanian
    Sunday Territorian
    Sunday Times
    The Advertiser
    The Australian
    The Courier-Mail
    The Mercury
    The Sunday Telegraph
    Weekly Times
    Magazines
    InsideOut
    donna hay
    SmartSource
    The Weekly Standard
    TV Guide (partial)
    [B]Books[/B]
    HarperMorrow Publishers
    HarperMorrow
    General Books Group
    Access
    Amistad
    Caedmon
    Avon
    Ecco
    Eos
    Fourth Estate
    HarperAudio
    HarperBusiness
    HarperCollins
    Harper Design International
    HarperEntertainment
    HarperLargePrint
    HarperResource
    HarperSanFrancisco
    HarperTorch
    Perennial
    PerfectBound
    Quill
    Rayo
    ReganBooks
    William Morrow
    William Morrow Cookbooks
    Children's Books Group
    Avon
    Greenwillow Books
    Joanna Cotler Books
    Eos
    Laura Geringer Books
    HarperAudio
    HarperCollins Children's Books
    HarperFestival
    HarperTempest
    Katherine Tegen Books
    Trophy
    Zondervan
    HarperCollins UK
    HarperCollins Canada
    HarperCollins Australia
    Other
    Los Angeles Kings (NHL, 40% option)
    Los Angeles Lakers (NBA, 9.8% option)
    Staples Center (40% owned by Fox/Liberty)
    News Interactive
    Fox Sports Radio Network
    Sky Radio Denmark
    Sky Radio Germany
    Broadsystem
    Classic FM
    Festival Records
    Fox Interactive
    IGN Entertainment
    Mushroom Records
    MySpace.com
    National Rugby League
    NDS
    News Outdoor
    Nursery World
    Scout Media
    last updated 06/12/07Campaign Desk Primary Night Metaphor-o-rama!

    [url]http://www.cjr.org/resources/[/url]
    Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 04-23-2008 at 03:46 PM.

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