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Thread: Gasoline Prices

  1. #1
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    Gasoline Prices

    How high will they go, before we open up Anwar and other sites to drilling. This is just not effecting gas prices it is effecting the economy and safety of this country! We can become more ecology minded but first we need oil and we need it now! We can build more Nuclear Energy plants for our electricty and we can invest in more energy effecient products for our future. I will not point fingers at anyone but we had better get this fixed real soon!

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    opening up Anwar is not the solution to the problem is rising gas prices

    it's like saying the solution to a heroin addiction is more heroin.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2496889]opening up Anwar is not the solution to the problem is rising gas prices

    it's like saying the solution to a heroin addiction is more heroin.[/QUOTE]

    That was one of the best responses to this issue that I have seen.

    Now get ready for the corporate apologists to post soon and drivel excuses and pretend that the gas companies are not corrupt.........
    Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 04-23-2008 at 11:30 AM.

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    The price of oil right now is all about speculation, big cash has to go somewhere and right now it's going to commodities.

    Along these lines I watched an excellent documentary on Sundance the other day, [url]http://www.oilcrashmovie.com/index2.html[/url] worth seeing if it is rerun. One of the major points is there really isn't anything in the pipeline right now that can efficiently replace oil.

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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2496912]The price of oil right now is all about speculation, [/QUOTE]

    Thanks, Jetswin. This is what I said last week where I was promptly labeled an anti-capitalist communist. :rolleyes:

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    Let it keep going up...

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2496925]Thanks, Jetswin. This is what I said last week where I was promptly labeled an anti-capitalist communist. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    I missed that

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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2496912]The price of oil right now is all about speculation, big cash has to go somewhere and right now it's going to commodities.

    Along these lines I watched an excellent documentary on Sundance the other day, [url]http://www.oilcrashmovie.com/index2.html[/url] worth seeing if it is rerun. One of the major points is there really isn't anything in the pipeline right now that can efficiently replace oil.[/QUOTE]

    they have had the technology that would allow cars to run on electricity for some time. The excuse was always that it took way too long to charge the car.

    Over at the NY car show at the convention center , they showed off a car that runs on electricity and it only takes [B]two[/B] hours to charge. As with any type of energy, there are issues that have to be resolved. But, If we were serious about getting away from our addiction to oil, instead of just paying lip service to it, we would begin to transition to this technology over time. Of course its kind of hard to do that when you have countless politicans deep into the pockets of the gas/oil companies.

    Not only is our addiction to oil bad for the environment and our wallets, it also keeps us involved with foreign issues that cost us American lives and billions of dollars. The amount of money that it takes to prosecute this war ( estimated well over 3 Billion dollars) could have allowed us to transition to other technologies
    Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 04-23-2008 at 11:28 AM.

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    I believe it will take 10 years for any oil coming out of Anwar to be refined into gasoline. Anwar is a really remote and often very cold location. Lots of rigs and pipelines will need to be built. For that matter I think the huge amount of oil that was recently discovered in the Gulf of Mexico is years away from being harvested. And I think that is an oil field that is straight forward compared to the Arctic Circle.
    Basically one of the reasons oil is getting more and more expensive is that all of the easy-to-get oil has been gotten. Now they have to go to the scary, remote places.

    I think the Anwar oil should either be heavily taxed to subsidize alterative energy sources or it should be left alone and held in reserve for our next war. Being pissed away cause people dont wish to adjust their lifestyles is a stupid use for it.

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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2496897]That was one of the best responces to this issue that I have seen.

    Now get ready for the corporate apologists to post soon and drivel excuses and pretend that the gas companies are not corrupt.........[/QUOTE]

    It is actually about supply and demand. Right now there is more demand then supply and the companies cant build more refineries because of environmental concerns add to that each state has different gas blends, some states want ethanol. How about one blend for colder climates and one for warmer climates.

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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2496945]they have had the technology that would allow cars to run on electricity for some time. The excuse was always that it took way too long to charge the car.

    Over at the NY car show at the convention center , they showed off a car that runs on electricity and it only takes [B]two[/B] hours to charge. As with any type of energy, there are issues that have to be resolved. But, If we were serious about getting away from our addiction to oil, instead of just paying lip service to it, we would begin to transition to this technology over time. Of course its kind of hard to do that when you have countless politicans deep into the pockets of the gas/oil companies.

    Not only is our addiction to oil bad for the environment and our wallets, it also keeps us involved with foreign issues that cost us American lives and billions of dollars. The amount of money that it takes to prosecute this war ( estimated well over 3 Billion dollars) could have allowed us to transition to other technologies[/QUOTE]

    electric cars are not the answer...economies are growing all over the world, all based on oil money. What happens when the Sudan becomes the next Dubai? That may be an extreme example but the film I mentioned presented examples of how a growing economy will outpace any gains made by meager savings associated with now common alternatice energy ideas. Fifty years ago there was the US, Europe, and parts of Russia...now China and the Middle East are exploding, all exploding economies depend on oil. The below quote is a synopsis on the film.

    [QUOTE]OilCrash, produced and directed by award-winning European journalists and filmmakers Basil Gelpke and Ray McCormack, tells the story of how our civilization’s addiction to oil puts it on a collision course with geology. Compelling, intelligent, and highly entertaining, the film visits with the world’s top experts and comes to a startling, but logical conclusion – our industrial society, built on cheap and readily available oil, must be completely re-imagined and overhauled.

    The idea that the world’s oil supplies have peaked, or will soon, is gaining mainstream currency. Robert B. Semple, Jr., associate editor of the New York Times editorial board, writes in the paper’s March 1, 2006, online edition:

    “The Age of Oil — 100-plus years of astonishing economic growth made possible by cheap, abundant oil — could be ending without our really being aware of it. Oil is a finite commodity. At some point even the vast reservoirs of Saudi Arabia will run dry. But before that happens there will come a day when oil production ‘peaks,’ when demand overtakes supply (and never looks back), resulting in large and possibly catastrophic price increases that could make today's $60-a-barrel oil look like chump change. Unless, of course, we begin to develop substitutes for oil. Or begin to live more abstemiously. Or both. The concept of peak oil has not been widely written about. But people are talking about it now. It deserves a careful look — largely because it is almost certainly correct.”

    Semple concludes: “These [are] not doomsday scenarios from conspiracy theorists, but hard scientific facts backed by serious research.”

    You needn’t be a conspiracy theorist to see a connection between America’s current obsessions with the Middle East and national security, and the world’s looming oil crisis. The frenzied search for alternative sources of energy now being pursued by the largest multinational energy corporations makes it clear they also believe a crisis is fast approaching. Each day’s headlines, whether the subject is Iraq or South America, sheds new light on the issue.


    Producer Basil Gelpke explains: “Suddenly, seemingly unconnected news about Katrina and Rita hitting the Gulf Coast’s oil refineries; the ongoing war in Iraq; the nuclear ambitions of Iran; the populist politics of Hugo Chavez in Venezuela; the appalling corruption in most oil producing countries; the de facto nationalization of Yukos in Russia; the steep rise in costs of everything oil-related; and even increasing share prices of companies involved in solar, wind and nuclear energy all pointed in the same direction. Oil is running out, and nobody is ready for the cataclysm that is bound to follow.”

    The film includes in-depth, thought-provoking interviews with Colin Campbell, Matt Simmons, Roscoe Bartlett, David Goodstein, Matt Savinar, Terry Lynn Karl, Fadhil Chalabi, Robert Ebel and many others. Shot on location at oil fields in Azerbaijan, Venezuela, the Middle East and Texas, with original music by Daniel Schnyder and Philip Glass, the film provides not only questions, but possible solutions to the most perplexing and important economic, environmental and public policy issue of our time.

    One year ago, in a report commissioned by the U.S. Department of Energy, Robert L. Hirsch challenged the notion that the free market can solve the onrushing emergency:

    "The world has never faced a problem like Peak Oil. Without massive mitigation more than a decade before the fact, the problem will be pervasive and will not be temporary. Previous energy transitions (wood to coal and coal to oil) were gradual and evolutionary; oil peaking will be abrupt and revolutionary."[/QUOTE]

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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2496945]they have had the technology that would allow cars to run on electricity for some time. The excuse was always that it took way too long to charge the car.

    Over at the NY car show at the convention center , they showed off a car that runs on electricity and it only takes [B]two[/B] hours to charge. As with any type of energy, there are issues that have to be resolved. But, If we were serious about getting away from our addiction to oil, instead of just paying lip service to it, we would begin to transition to this technology over time. Of course its kind of hard to do that when you have countless politicans deep into the pockets of the gas/oil companies.

    Not only is our addiction to oil bad for the environment and our wallets, it also keeps us involved with foreign issues that cost us American lives and billions of dollars. The amount of money that it takes to prosecute this war ( estimated well over 3 Billion dollars) could have allowed us to transition to other technologies[/QUOTE]

    One huge problem with electric powered cars can be understood by looking at the NY metro area power supplies.

    At periods of peak demand, local generators are at capacity. Backup can be provided by bring power down from Quebec, but other sources on the grid here in the US may also be at peak demand at the same time.

    Add in that there are substantial concerns about the nuclear plant at Indian Point, that at least arguably have as much to do with its location as that it is merely a nuclear powerplant. There has been a steady attempt to shut it down for several years now.

    With current supply, how much electricity is really available to now be used to power electric cars? What if Indian Point is closed, or merely goes off line? What other powerplants will be constructed and brought on line? What will fire them? Oil? Coal?

    Speaking personally, I do think there are problems with Indian Point that are specific to it. Optimally it would be closed down.

    But it has to be replaced with something else, and right now the idea of shutting it down and replacing it with an oil fired plant, or using oil powered plants to increase electrical capacity more generally, appears increasingly untenable.

    The math doesn't add up. This is one reason why I think we need to be less skeptical of nuclear power. That and that it does little to add to global warming.

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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2496952]It is actually about supply and demand. Right now there is more demand then supply and the companies cant build more refineries because of environmental concerns add to that each state has different gas blends, some states want ethanol. How about one blend for colder climates and one for warmer climates.[/QUOTE]

    I think the market will sort this out just fine as long as gas prices stay up. We'll see more investment in better-mileage cars, more investment in more energy-efficient homes and appliances, more investment in alternative energy tech like nano, solar, wind, fuel cells. We may see some nuke plants go up. Perhaps fewer people will choose to live in exurbs with 40 mile commutes to work.

    It'll take awhile, but these developments will reduce demand for gas, and, with it, the price of gas. They'll also reduce greenhouse gas emissions and other pollution.

    And, in the process, we'll reduce a major line of terrorist funding, making us safer, healthier and ultimately wealthier. Everybody wins.

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2497026]I think the market will sort this out just fine as long as gas prices stay up. We'll see more investment in better-mileage cars, more investment in more energy-efficient homes and appliances, more investment in alternative energy tech like nano, solar, wind, fuel cells. We may see some nuke plants go up. Perhaps fewer people will choose to live in exurbs with 40 mile commutes to work.

    It'll take awhile, but these developments will reduce demand for gas, and, with it, the price of gas. They'll also reduce greenhouse gas emissions and other pollution.

    And, in the process, we'll reduce a major line of terrorist funding, making us safer, healthier and ultimately wealthier. Everybody wins.[/QUOTE]Excellent post. I agree completely.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2497026]I think the market will sort this out just fine as long as gas prices stay up. We'll see more investment in better-mileage cars, more investment in more energy-efficient homes and appliances, more investment in alternative energy tech like nano, solar, wind, fuel cells. We may see some nuke plants go up. Perhaps fewer people will choose to live in exurbs with 40 mile commutes to work.

    It'll take awhile, but these developments will reduce demand for gas, and, with it, the price of gas. They'll also reduce greenhouse gas emissions and other pollution.

    And, in the process, we'll reduce a major line of terrorist funding, making us safer, healthier and ultimately wealthier. Everybody wins.[/QUOTE]

    It won't work. Even if everyone's car gets 45 mpg, and the economy continues to grow at a modest rate here and abroad, demand will far outpace any benefits especially as the world's population grows and rises from the stoneage.

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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2497067]It won't work. Even if everyone's car gets 45 mpg, and the economy continues to grow at a modest rate here and abroad, demand will far outpace any benefits especially as the world's population grows and rises from the stoneage.[/QUOTE]

    Which is why investing and developing alternative energy --and in that I include nuclear-- is so important.

    ANWAR doesn't solve the problem either, it just pushes it a few extra years down the road --trading our insurance from being held hostage by OPEC in the process.

    The answer is breaking our addiction to oil through new investment. Fuel cells and some nano-aided solar tech are getting much closer to fruition, and could have a real impact.

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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2497067]It won't work. Even if everyone's car gets 45 mpg, and the economy continues to grow at a modest rate here and abroad, demand will far outpace any benefits especially as the world's population grows and rises from the stoneage.[/QUOTE]

    Not to mention that if everyone's car gets 45mpg than the price of driving has gone down and people will drive more, meaning that total fuel consimption may not go down by nearly as much as people think, if at all. Also, one often-used method of making cars more fuel-efficient is to make them lighter which could raise the injuries and fatalities of crashes, by having cars less safe. There are always trade-offs.

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    Just an interesting side note...the largest consumer of oil is the US military. Perhaps US demand for oil will drop slightly once the Iraqis start taking over more of the operations there...such as escorting convoys, air support, etc...

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2497026]Perhaps fewer people will choose to live in exurbs with 40 mile commutes to work.[/QUOTE]

    You make it sound like it's an easy option for most people to simply pick up and move to the city. I suppose if you toss out quality of life as a factor, and price of property as well, it might be.

    But in the real world where living close to work-centers costs massively more than living in a suburb, and where quality of life in the suburb far far exceeds quality of life in our decrepit crime-filled cities, such a sea-change will simply not happen. Especially if one considers the huge population of Americans that have made huge investments in the process of populating our suburban landscape.

    If anything, as technology advances, I would expect the WORK to move out to the Suburbs, and to abandon our cities. Virtual offices, telecommuting and the future-tech that will repalce them will continue to make "being at the office in the Big City" less and less important.

    One can already see that trend in one of the most valuble and growing areas in America today, Northern Virginia.

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2497115]Just an interesting side note...the largest consumer of oil is the US military. Perhaps US demand for oil will drop slightly once the Iraqis start taking over more of the operations there...such as escorting convoys, air support, etc...[/QUOTE]

    And the U.S. military is also one of the biggest investors in alternative tech like solar (which works great in desert-warfare vehicles, btw). It often happens that some of the best civiliant tech breakthroughs come from military research. (This is how the internet started, after all.)

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