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Thread: Dems have a mess on their hands. Hillary is a ticking timebomb!

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    Dems have a mess on their hands. Hillary is a ticking timebomb!

    When the ego and drive of an individual overshadow the goals of her party and supporters, you have the makings of political civil war...




    [url]http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/10/bernstein.clinton/index.html?iref=mpstoryview[/url]

    By Carl Bernstein
    CNN Contributor
    (CNN) -- Friends and close associates of both Sens. Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are now convinced that, assuming she loses the race for the presidential nomination, she is probably going to fight to be the vice presidential nominee on an Obama-for-president ticket.

    [B]Clinton "is trying to figure out how to land the plane without looking like surrender," [/B]a prominent figure in the Obama camp said Friday. This means, in all likelihood, bringing her campaign to a close in the next few weeks and [B]trying to leverage her way onto an Obama ticket from a position of maximum strength[/B], said several knowledgeable sources.

    A person close to her, with whom her campaign staff has counseled at various points, said this week, "I think the following will happen: Obama will be in a position where the party declares him the nominee by the first week in June. She'll still be fighting with everybody -- the Rules Committee, the party leaders -- and arguing, 'I'm winning these key states; I've got almost half the delegates. I have a whole constituency he hasn't reached. I've got real differences on approach to how we win this election, and I'm going to press the hell out of this guy. ... Relief for the middle class, universal health care, etc.; I'm Ms. Blue Collar, and I'm going to press my fight, because he can't win without my being on the ticket.' "

    [B]Another major Democratic Party figure agreed: "It's not going to be a quiet exit. ... Obama has got a terrible situation. He marches to a different drummer. He won't want to take her on the ticket. But he might have to, even though the idea of Vice President Hillary with Bill in the background at the White House is not something -- especially after what [the Clintons] have thrown at him that he relishes. I believe she'll go for it."[/B]

    However, several important Democrats aligned with Obama predicted that he -- and Michelle Obama -- will vigorously resist any Clinton effort to get on the ticket. Rather, Obama is more likely to try to convince Clinton to either stay in the Senate or accept another position in an Obama administration, should he win the presidency.

    [B]Several Clinton associates say there is still a ray of hope among some in her campaign: that a "catastrophic" revelation about Obama might make it possible for her to win the presidential nomination[/B]. But barring that, Hillary and Bill Clinton recognize that her candidacy is being abandoned and rejected by superdelegates whom she once expected to win over and that, even if she were to win the popular vote in combined primary states, she will almost certainly be denied the nomination.

    In theory, the landing of Campaign Clinton by the end of the primaries -- in early June at the latest, without the prospect of a convention struggle -- would be good news from Obama's point of view and even from the perspective of close Clinton friends and associates who revere their candidate and worry about the legacy of Hillary and Bill Clinton.

    [B]However, from the perspective of both campaign camps, there is serious concern about the kind of landing she's aiming for and the precarious task of bringing her plane down, especially if she decides to seek the vice presidential nomination.[/B] There could be a number of different landings:

    • Smooth and skillful, doing the Obama candidacy no further damage and perhaps restoring to relative health the legacy of and regard for Bill and Hillary Clinton in the Democratic Party.

    • Explosive, setting down after the enemy has been carpet-bombed (an "October surprise in May"), something the Obama campaign believes may be less and less likely to come from his Democratic opponent because of the dangers to the party and the Clintons' reputation. Yet the Clinton campaign's search for damaging information and its hope that such information exists continues, according to knowledgeable sources. Strategist Harold Ickes, her premier tactical counselor, warned on the eve of the North Carolina and Indiana that Obama could be vulnerable to an "October surprise" by the McCain campaign.

    • Missing the runway and destroying the Democratic village, as even her advocates outside her immediate campaign apparat fear could happen if the Clinton campaign continues to pursue a harshly negative course.

    • Just bumpy and scary enough to shake the Obama campaign one last time and get her into the hangar as the vice presidential nominee on the Democratic ticket. Increasingly, this is what people in Obama's corner and those who know her well are becoming convinced she will try to do. Part of this assumption is based on her determination to roll up the biggest numbers possible in West Virginia and Kentucky, and Bill Clinton's argument that she may still win a majority of popular votes in non-caucus states.

    [B]Meanwhile, some of the Clintons' longtime friends and political counselors are intent on trying to talk her down calmly -- something almost like a family intervention -- to get her concede the Democratic presidential race when the appropriate time comes, in such a way as to heal some of the wounds to the party and to both candidates but allow her to make her best case for the vice presidency[/B].

    [B]Almost no one I have spoken to who knows her well doubts that, as she reconciles to the likelihood that her presidential campaign is falling short, she will probably seek the vice presidential spot.[/B] One reason: Contrary to common belief, [B]she doesn't look forward to going back to the Senate, they say. Many Democratic senators believe that she would not have an easy time winning an election for majority leader; the tenor and tactics of her presidential campaign have alienated some of her Democratic colleagues in the Senate.[/B]

    Far more than as one of 100 senators, she could accomplish much of her lifelong social and political agenda as vice president and, if Obama is not elected, could make a better argument that she should be the party's next nominee for president.

    [B]One other factor now plays a bigger role in the vice presidential question than on the night of her defeat in North Carolina and her narrow win in the Indiana primary: her unequivocal assertion the following day that she has more support among white working-class voters than Obama has.[/B]

    In an interview with USA Today, she cited an Associated Press report that, [B]she said, "found how Sen. Obama's support among working, hard-working Americans, white Americans, is weakening again, and how whites in both states who had not completed college were supporting me."[/B]

    It is difficult to overstate the negative effect this remark has had on superdelegates, party leaders and her Democratic colleagues in both houses of Congress. "That's not a way to land the plane," one of her key supporters said. [B]"If you were a superdelegate, you'd say, 'We have to shut this down right away.' "[/B]

    [B]But others worried that her words were calculated, that by venturing into such risky, rhetorical territory about race, she might put Obama under increased pressure to take her on the ticket before more damage and loss of support from her working-class base is felt.[/B]

    [B]Former San Francisco Mayor Willie Brown, an old Clinton friend, said Friday that she had made a major mistake in suggesting "that hardworking Americans are white people."[/B]

    "This statement has got to be dealt with by Hillary Clinton, and Hillary Clinton alone," he said on MSNBC's "Hardball."

    "The sooner she does that," she said, "the sooner her ship is going to start sailing in a better direction."
    Last edited by jetstream23; 05-11-2008 at 03:19 AM.

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    how bout we worry about the mess the republicans got us into before we worry about someone that may or may not ever be in ofice,huh?

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    Actually, this is somewhat concerning.

    Hopefully Obama goes with Richardson and respectfully gives Billary a "no thanks."

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    [QUOTE=gscott;2532709]how bout we worry about the mess the republicans got us into before we worry about someone that may or may not ever be in ofice,huh?[/QUOTE]

    huh?

    So you can't discuss ANYTHING until Bush is out of office? I see how it works, "look over there, nothing to see here." :rolleyes:

    If you were smart enough you'd see that this Obama/Hillary problem is exactly what's keeping Dems from worrying about the Republicans! So shortsighted....
    Last edited by jetstream23; 05-11-2008 at 12:50 PM.

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    This is indeed very interesting. I originally thought that Hillary would view a VP spot as somehow "below her"

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    [QUOTE=jetstream23;2533039]huh?

    So you can't discuss ANYTHING until Bush is out of office? I see how it works, "look over there, nothing to see here." :rolleyes:

    If you were smart enough you'd see that this Obama/Hillary problem is exactly what's keeping Dems from worrying about the Republicans! So shortsighted....[/QUOTE]no, it's just that the attention should be focused on the here and now. The administration that has held office since 2000. I know how the game works. When something good happens once bush is out of office, it's because of what he did while in office. When something bad happens when he is in office, it's because of what the last dem in office did. It's very tiring. Been hearing the same thing for years. If that is true, then all the good things reagan lovers claim he did, should be credited to jimmy carter right? I know that's not true but others want to portray it to be so. Bush is and has been in office long enough to prove himself. He hasn't done so. Now it's, let's turn our attention to the dems because they might get elected and we can get a head start on blaming them for everything. Sorry, but that's how it works. I've heard it a million times.

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    [QUOTE=gscott;2533797]no, it's just that the attention should be focused on the here and now. The administration that has held office since 2000. I know how the game works. When something good happens once bush is out of office, it's because of what he did while in office. When something bad happens when he is in office, it's because of what the last dem in office did. It's very tiring. Been hearing the same thing for years. If that is true, then all the good things reagan lovers claim he did, should be credited to jimmy carter right? I know that's not true but others want to portray it to be so. Bush is and has been in office long enough to prove himself. He hasn't done so. Now it's, let's turn our attention to the dems because they might get elected and we can get a head start on blaming them for everything. Sorry, but that's how it works. I've heard it a million times.[/QUOTE]

    Wow. You are more obsessed with bush than a straight guy locked in a monastery.
    Last edited by jetstream23; 05-13-2008 at 01:02 AM.

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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2533771]This is indeed very interesting. I originally thought that Hillary would view a VP spot as somehow "below her"[/QUOTE]

    At one point, she probably did. But now its basically her best chance to ever become president. Plus, being the first woman veep would be a very big deal.

    That said, I don't think Obama needs her. There are plenty of dems who appeal to her newly found base of working class whites, such as Jim Webb, Joe Biden, Wes Clark, Evan Bayh, Ted Strickland, even John Edwards, and none of them come with her baggage.

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2534938]At one point, she probably did. But now its basically her best chance to ever become president. Plus, being the first woman veep would be a very big deal.

    That said, I don't think Obama needs her. There are plenty of dems who appeal to her newly found base of working class whites, such as Jim Webb, Joe Biden, Wes Clark, Evan Bayh, Ted Strickland, even John Edwards, and none of them come with her baggage.[/QUOTE]

    The problem here is that Hillary's implosion is causing collateral damage to Obama. Not only would a graceful exit and recognition that she's lost fair and square help her if she ever wanted to run again, but it would give Obama the best shot at winning the general election. Instead, she seems to be saying so many dumb things that she's infuriating her own party. Not only won't the Senate welcome her back with open arms but, should Obama lose a general election with McCain, the Dems may not even see her as the first choice to put up against McCain in a potential 2012 election.

    Believe me, I don't have a problem watching Hillary and Barack tear each other apart rather than focusing on McCain. But they should realize they're making it that much harder for the Democratic candidate to win.

    The comment in the original article that Hillary's camp is really hoping for a "catastrophic revelation" about Obama that would torpedo his campaign is pretty frightening. Maybe Hillary's camp is the one putting out all the Obama is a Muslim and Hard-working white people won't vote for him kinda stuff.

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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2534938]At one point, she probably did. But now its basically her best chance to ever become president. Plus, being the first woman veep would be a very big deal.

    That said, I don't think Obama needs her. There are plenty of dems who appeal to her newly found base of working class whites, such as Jim Webb, Joe Biden, Wes Clark, Evan Bayh, Ted Strickland, even John Edwards, and none of them come with her baggage.[/QUOTE]
    I swear...I can't shake the feeling that Obama would be in danger of physical harm should Hillary be the VP..

    It's a crazy notion, but my gut kind of tells me that she would go there.(or at least be tempted)

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    [QUOTE=jetstream23;2534962]
    The comment in the original article that Hillary's camp is really hoping for a "catastrophic revelation" about Obama that would torpedo his campaign is pretty frightening. [B]Maybe Hillary's camp is the one putting out all the Obama is a Muslim and Hard-working white people won't vote for him kinda stuff.[/B][/QUOTE]
    uh..of course they are...

    Everything is calculated.

    Notice Hillary never expressly mentioned "white" voters until a) all the states with large AA populations had already voted and b) the next 2 contests are in probably 2 of the most racially biased states in the union...

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    [QUOTE=jetstream23;2534821]Wow. You are more obsessed with bush than a straight guy locked in monastery.[/QUOTE]
    grow up. don't be a dick. I used bush as an example. Put any republicans name in there you want. Prove me wrong. Tell me that's not the oldest argument out there.

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    [QUOTE=CTM;2534965]I swear...I can't shake the feeling that Obama would be in danger of physical harm should Hillary be the VP..

    It's a crazy notion, but my gut kind of tells me that she would go there.(or at least be tempted)[/QUOTE]

    IMO, that's the only way she'd accept the VP...remember her hubby was the first "black president" and she can't be the second b/c of this "black" upstart from Chicago!

    But I don't think BO would axe her to be his VP...he remembers what happened to Mondale!

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    [QUOTE=gscott;2535353]grow up. don't be a dick. I used bush as an example. Put any republicans name in there you want. Prove me wrong. Tell me that's not the oldest argument out there.[/QUOTE]

    Why only Republican names? How about the fact that the U.S. was heading into recession in 2000 as Clinton was exiting office but it got blamed on Bush? It works both ways, man. Please tell me you don't think it's just a one-way street. But I know that doesn't matter to you. What matters is that a discussion about Obama vs. Clinton has been hijacked and turned into yet another assault on Bush and the Republicans. Look, we get it, you don't like the guy. But when someone tells you it's cloudy outside you don't have to blame Bush. When the Jets go 4-12 you don't have to blame our porous run defense and George Bush.

    How anyone could take the article I posted from CNN and twist this thread directly into the same old anti-Bush rhetoric is amazing, but a lot of people have had years of practice turning ANY discussion into a shreading of the President. Heck, EVEN CNN didn't use the word Bush in the article! Meanwhile, getting back to the point of the thread as I tried to do earlier (post #9), Obama's biggest problem isn't the Republicans or McCain right now. You've got a leader of the party and former first lady telling America that the presumptive presidential candidate from the Democratic party won't be voted for by white America. Let's just say that's a slighty bigger problem than worrying about Republicans right now. Georgie is gone in 8 months anyway. But please, continue to spend energy railing on Bush as Hillary tries to start a race war inside her own party!
    Last edited by jetstream23; 05-13-2008 at 01:10 AM.

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