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Thread: Mangini: Pivotal Witness?

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    Mangini: Pivotal Witness?

    Well, since it seems we are going to get another day out of this spygate blather, I thought it would be interesting to re-consider Eric Mangini's role in this affair.

    We know that he brought the Pats* taping to the attention of the NFL after he became HC of the Jets.

    We also know that he was a Coach with the Pats from 2000 until his tenure began with the Jets in 2006.

    Obviously, a man reportedly as shrewd as Mangeniuz must have known if there was an in-game advantage being gained by said taping including appearances in 3 SB's. No?

    And the same coach that turned in Belichick for taping, also has 3 SB rings ostensibly tied to this taping.

    You would assume he would be a pivotal witness as to whether the cheating occurred as we all surmised, yet I have heard nothing from the man after his initial statement.

    Is he a hypocrite, protecting the sanctity of the SB rings he won with the Patriots with silence, while pulling the carpet out from underneath his old mentor and co-conspirator now that the taping would be disadvantageous to him?

    Or was he an un-witting rube benefiting from the evil machinations of BB and Ernie Adams, as Walsh has stated?

    The truth methinks, lies in the middle.

    And as a Jet fan, that is unsettling.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    Well, since it seems we are going to get another day out of this spygate blather, I thought it would be interesting to re-consider Eric Mangini's role in this affair.

    We know that he brought the Pats* taping to the attention of the NFL after he became HC of the Jets.

    We also know that he was a Coach with the Pats from 2000 until his tenure began with the Jets in 2006.

    Obviously, a man reportedly as shrewd as Mangeniuz must have known if there was an in-game advantage being gained by said taping including appearances in 3 SB's. No?

    And the same coach that turned in Belichick for taping, also has 3 SB rings ostensibly tied to this taping.

    You would assume he would be a pivotal witness as to whether the cheating occurred as we all surmised, yet I have heard nothing from the man after his initial statement.

    Is he a hypocrite, protecting the sanctity of the SB rings he won with the Patriots with silence, while pulling the carpet out from underneath his old mentor and co-conspirator now that the taping would be disadvantageous to him?

    Or was he an un-witting rube benefiting from the evil machinations of BB and Ernie Adams, as Walsh has stated?

    The truth methinks, lies in the middle.

    And as a Jet fan, that is unsettling.
    Mangini was busy coaching the game. Jets team security saw the cameraman and pointed him out to NFL security to inquire. According to Goodell yesterday, NFL security was the one who intervened, apprehended the individual for questioning and confiscated the tape.

    The fact that Mangini could/should have knowledge of the Pats* tactics and would be a pivotal witness is certainly correct though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jetstream23 View Post
    Mangini was busy coaching the game. Jets team security saw the cameraman and pointed him out to NFL security to inquire. According to Goodell yesterday, NFL security was the one who intervened, apprehended the individual for questioning and confiscated the tape.

    The fact that Mangini could/should have knowledge of the Pats* tactics and would be a pivotal witness is certainly correct though.
    Agreed. The extent of Mangini's involvement was probably "keep an eye out for these guys....they may be stupid enough to try and film our signals".

    The major issue in this whole saga is not the fact that Mumbles videotaped signals in the early 2000s....its him continuing to do it after getting caught several times and being explicitly warned about it. That is the basis of the grave punishment. The issue with Walsh was whether Mumbles was 100% honest in recounting what/when he taped teams when speaking with Goodell. Any further punishment would be on account of him being a lying scumbag, not because of additional taping.

    Mangini's knowledge of the taping in the past is irrelevant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    Well, since it seems we are going to get another day out of this spygate blather, I thought it would be interesting to re-consider Eric Mangini's role in this affair.

    We know that he brought the Pats* taping to the attention of the NFL after he became HC of the Jets.

    We also know that he was a Coach with the Pats from 2000 until his tenure began with the Jets in 2006.

    Obviously, a man reportedly as shrewd as Mangeniuz must have known if there was an in-game advantage being gained by said taping including appearances in 3 SB's. No?

    And the same coach that turned in Belichick for taping, also has 3 SB rings ostensibly tied to this taping.

    You would assume he would be a pivotal witness as to whether the cheating occurred as we all surmised, yet I have heard nothing from the man after his initial statement.

    Is he a hypocrite, protecting the sanctity of the SB rings he won with the Patriots with silence, while pulling the carpet out from underneath his old mentor and co-conspirator now that the taping would be disadvantageous to him?

    Or was he an un-witting rube benefiting from the evil machinations of BB and Ernie Adams, as Walsh has stated?

    The truth methinks, lies in the middle.

    And as a Jet fan, that is unsettling.
    Ratgini was the happiest man alive yesterday when nothing became of spygate.

    He would have been implicated to the hilt, if additional penalties were brought against the Pats.

    What is really pathetic however, is that the Packers, Phins, Eagles and Steelers all knew what the Pats were doing, but didn't go crying to the commissioners office like the little baby Ratgini.

    "Mr. Goodell, Mr. Goodell, the big, bad, evil Patriots are cheating".

    What a truly sad example of a human being who owes the Patriots and BB for where he is today.

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    I will not have our HC being slandered at JI based on conjecture and speculation, without an ounce of evidence

    Therefore I am sending this thread to the Garbage dump where it belongs
    Last edited by Green Jets & Ham; 05-14-2008 at 11:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    Ratgini was the happiest man alive yesterday when nothing became of spygate.

    He would have been implicated to the hilt, if additional penalties were brought against the Pats.

    What is really pathetic however, is that the Packers, Phins, Eagles and Steelers all knew what the Pats were doing, but didn't go crying to the commissioners office like the little baby Ratgini.

    "Mr. Goodell, Mr. Goodell, the big, bad, evil Patriots are cheating".

    What a truly sad example of a human being who owes the Patriots and BB for where he is today.

    So the guy who ratted out your fraud coach is happy that nothing was found for his own sake?

    Texas sure has made you dumber.
    Last edited by Sourceworx; 05-14-2008 at 11:08 AM.

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    The JI Garbage Dump

    A cesspool of silly or ridiculous threads started by posters who have not done their homework or are simply trying to flame. Be careful before you post or your point may end up here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    Well, since it seems we are going to get another day out of this spygate blather, I thought it would be interesting to re-consider Eric Mangini's role in this affair.

    We know that he brought the Pats* taping to the attention of the NFL after he became HC of the Jets.

    We also know that he was a Coach with the Pats from 2000 until his tenure began with the Jets in 2006.

    Obviously, a man reportedly as shrewd as Mangeniuz must have known if there was an in-game advantage being gained by said taping including appearances in 3 SB's. No?

    And the same coach that turned in Belichick for taping, also has 3 SB rings ostensibly tied to this taping.

    You would assume he would be a pivotal witness as to whether the cheating occurred as we all surmised, yet I have heard nothing from the man after his initial statement.

    Is he a hypocrite, protecting the sanctity of the SB rings he won with the Patriots with silence, while pulling the carpet out from underneath his old mentor and co-conspirator now that the taping would be disadvantageous to him?

    Or was he an un-witting rube benefiting from the evil machinations of BB and Ernie Adams, as Walsh has stated?

    The truth methinks, lies in the middle.

    And as a Jet fan, that is unsettling.
    Why do you think it lies in the middle? Can't you handle the truth?

    Mangini was in the thick of it, plain and simple. 32, don't become a Mangini
    apologist just because he is the NYJ coach. That would be hypocritical and
    disingenuous and we know Jets fans are not like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 32green View Post
    Well, since it seems we are going to get another day out of this spygate blather, I thought it would be interesting to re-consider Eric Mangini's role in this affair.

    We know that he brought the Pats* taping to the attention of the NFL after he became HC of the Jets.

    We also know that he was a Coach with the Pats from 2000 until his tenure began with the Jets in 2006.

    Obviously, a man reportedly as shrewd as Mangeniuz must have known if there was an in-game advantage being gained by said taping including appearances in 3 SB's. No?

    And the same coach that turned in Belichick for taping, also has 3 SB rings ostensibly tied to this taping.

    You would assume he would be a pivotal witness as to whether the cheating occurred as we all surmised, yet I have heard nothing from the man after his initial statement.

    Is he a hypocrite, protecting the sanctity of the SB rings he won with the Patriots with silence, while pulling the carpet out from underneath his old mentor and co-conspirator now that the taping would be disadvantageous to him?

    Or was he an un-witting rube benefiting from the evil machinations of BB and Ernie Adams, as Walsh has stated?

    The truth methinks, lies in the middle.

    And as a Jet fan, that is unsettling.
    There is nothing unsettling about it.

    First off, one of the biggest misconceptions about this whole affair is the notion that Mangini was the "whistleblower." Nothing is further from the truth. The Pats were accused of this twice during the 2006 season. The NFL reissued it's memo warning against this three days prior to the start of the '07season. NFL Security was on the lookout for this and caught the cameraman. Mangini was too busy coaching the game to bother.

    Second, the vast majority of the taping was of defensive signals. As a defensive assistant. He wouldn't be needed in the conversations as to how the offense was going to cheat. Even is he was, he was the assistant. Belichick was the HC and as he said in his first PC addressing this issue, all of the football decisions and processes run through him. End of story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham View Post
    I will not have our HC being slandered at JI based on conjecture and speculation, without an ounce of evidence

    Therefore I am sending this thread to the Garbage dump where it belongs
    Wow, talk about censorship to the Nth degree.

    It is a proven fact that Ratgini turned in the Pats, not conjecture and speculation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    Wow, talk about censorship to the Nth degree.

    It is a proven fact that Ratgini turned in the Pats, not conjecture and speculation.
    No, it's not.

    You know, I could almost fit a thimble with the amount of information you've been right about the last six years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post

    Wow, talk about censorship to the Nth degree.

    It is a proven fact that Ratgini turned in the Pats, not conjecture and speculation.
    There is no evidence whatsoever to support the proposition that Eric Mangini was involved in SpyGate much less to what degree, therefore any conversation along those lines is purely speculation and that would constitute slander, and Eric Mangini will not be slandered at JI, not if I have anything to say about it

    If you have any evidence to support that proposition, fine, then the conversation is fair game, otherwise its off to the garbage dump where it belongs

    The snitch comments are fine, I don't dump those, but I will not have Mangini accused of complicity without evidence

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham View Post
    The JI Garbage Dump

    A cesspool of silly or ridiculous threads started by posters who have not done their homework or are simply trying to flame or threads that Jets fans just want to overlook because it makes the team look bad. Be careful before you post or your point may end up here.

    Fixed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PatsFanTX View Post
    Ratgini was the happiest man alive yesterday when nothing became of spygate.

    He would have been implicated to the hilt, if additional penalties were brought against the Pats.

    What is really pathetic however, is that the Packers, Phins, Eagles and Steelers all knew what the Pats were doing, but didn't go crying to the commissioners office like the little baby Ratgini.

    "Mr. Goodell, Mr. Goodell, the big, bad, evil Patriots are cheating".

    What a truly sad example of a human being who owes the Patriots and BB for where he is today.
    Rats get bats!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham View Post
    There is no evidence whatsoever to support the proposition that Eric Mangini was involved in SpyGate much less to what degree, therefore any conversation along those lines is purely speculation and that would constitute slander, and Eric Mangini will not be slandered at JI, not if I have anything to say about it

    If you have any evidence to support that proposition, fine, then the conversation is fair game, otherwise its off to the garbage dump where it belongs

    The snitch comments are fine, I don't dump those, but I will not have Mangini accused of complicity without evidence
    Is this enough evidence Hammer?


    Looking Through Lens of Time, Mangini Did the Right Thing


    By WILLIAM C. RHODEN
    Published: December 13, 2007
    Hempstead, N.Y.

    Jets Coach Eric Mangini could have fallen into disfavor with his team had he kept quiet about the Patriots’ videotaping.

    While the Jets are tumbling into darkness, New England is steamrolling toward perfection, trying to become the first team since the 1972 Miami Dolphins to go undefeated.

    In addition to having the allure of an undefeated team, Sunday’s game has the tantalizing ingredient of revenge. Last September, the Jets turned the Patriots in to the N.F.L. after a Patriots staff member was caught videotaping the Jets’ defensive signals during the season opener at Giants Stadium. The Jets lost, 38-14, and Spygate was born.

    The N.F.L. fined Bill Belichick $500,000 and ordered the team to forfeit its first-round draft pick in 2008 if it made the playoffs for violating league rules. The Patriots were also fined $250,000.

    What is astounding about the Spygate saga is how some members of the news media turned on Jets Coach Eric Mangini, lambasting him for being a tattletale and showing disloyalty to Belichick, his former mentor.

    What a convenient juxtaposition of priorities: the same people who, in principle and in informal conversation, condemn the antisnitch rhetoric of the street also blast Mangini for turning in the Patriots.

    We complain about a culture of silence in which people see wrongdoing but hold their tongues, in which those entrusted by the public look the other way and adhere to an artificial code in order to maintain the status quo.

    When an N.F.L. head coach outs his former boss for cheating, he is pilloried.

    Some even chided Mangini for breaking an unspoken rule among N.F.L. coaches against turning one another in.

    On Wednesday, a reporter asked Mangini about the unspoken rule. “I don’t know what unspoken rules there are or aren’t,” Mangini responded, “but what I can tell you is I’ve covered this topic extensively and it’s a league matter. There’s really nothing else I have to add to it.”

    The Patriots, of course, have been on a search-and-destroy mission, obliterating every team in sight, most recently the Pittsburgh Steelers.

    Last month, I thought the hapless Jets would be flogged without mercy, beaten by 60 points as punishment for the franchise’s perceived transgression. Sunday’s game would be a sacrifice, not merely a lopsided loss. Public humiliation of Mangini.

    But the more I think about the filming escapade, the more I feel that Mangini, much more than Belichick, should be offended.

    Mangini did what he was supposed to do: he turned in an opponent who was putting his team at a potential competitive disadvantage.

    I would have turned in New England in a heartbeat.

    Don’t tell me about what Mangini did or did not do when he was with New England. Mangini was a Patriots assistant from 2000 to 2005. The Patriots signed his checks, his loyalties accrued to New England.

    When Mangini signed with the Jets, his allegiance followed. Where’s the complexity?

    If I’m Mangini, the fact that my mentor was the one doing the filming makes it even worse. My position to Belichick would be: “You know that I know you cheat and you’re still going to come to my stadium and roll tape? Now I’m really angry.”

    Let’s put some blue in that Patriots streak.

    On Wednesday, Mangini responded to news reports that the Jets videotaped the Patriots during last season’s playoff game. Mangini said the Jets had asked for and received permission to film.

    On the face of it, Spygate is a silly story that has legs because of Sunday’s game and the Patriots’ perfect record. Given the bizarre events of the season with players and coaches seemingly out of control, the greatest potential crisis to the league — and beyond — is a loss of honor.

    On Wednesday, a stunned Arthur Blank stood before reporters in Atlanta, dumfounded that his coach, Bobby Petrino, had sneaked out of town like a thief in the night.

    Blank said he felt betrayed. Under what code was Petrino operating?

    Mangini could have observed the oafish code of silence and let Belichick and the Patriots slide. The consequences might have been devastating.



    On Wednesday, Darrelle Revis, the Jets’ rookie cornerback, offered the most perceptive observation with a simple question: What would have happened had the Jets discovered that Mangini knew the Patriots were cheating, but said nothing — because Belichick was his mentor?

    Answer: Mangini would have lost this team back in September; the subsequent implosion would have made the Atlanta disaster seem like “The Love Boat.”

    “Your team is like your family,” Revis said. “That’s where your loyalty is.”

    So, the news media can sing “Danny Boy” all they like as Mangini leads his team into Foxborough for what appears to be certain doom. I wouldn’t be so quick to predict a rout.

    The Patriots have Belichick and Brady and Welker and Moss. But for the first time all season, the Jets have right on their side.

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    If the Pats are accused of cheating (ie: taped opponents call, be it offensive or defensive calls, and gained a competitive advantage in games), I think it's a fair assesment to say the Pats coaching staff, including Mangini, was aware of it.

    JMO

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    PFT, did you even bother to read what I said?

    This has nothing to do with your dopey snitch comments, that's not why this thread was dumped, I could care less about that nonsense, this thread was dumped because it makes an accusation of complicity {with SpyGate} with zero evidence to support that proposition, therefore it is good old fashioned slander, nothing less and nothing more, and we will not countenece slander against Eric Mangini at JI, not if I have anything to say about it

    You want to slander Eric Mangini, you'll have to use a Patriots message board for that, but not here

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Jets & Ham View Post
    The JI Garbage Dump

    A cesspool of silly or ridiculous threads started by posters who have not done their homework or are simply trying to flame. Be careful before you post or your point may end up here.
    ALWAYS a good reminder.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaoulDuke View Post

    If the Pats are accused of cheating (ie: taped opponents call, be it offensive or defensive calls, and gained a competitive advantage in games), I think it's a fair assesment to say the Pats coaching staff, including Mangini, was aware of it.

    JMO
    I understand that, but without any evidence its pure speculation and you can't accuse a man of complicity based on speculation, without an ounce of evidence .. well, you can, but that is called slander and slander against the NY Jets HC will not be tolerated at JI any more than slander against, oh say, Tony Dungy would be tolerated on a Colts board

    I'm sure there are boards that will allow Mangini to be slandered, no doubt the Patriots boards, but not at JI, this is not the place to slander the HC of the NY Jets, not if I have anything to say about it

  20. #20
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    Wow. I knew I would get homer-slammed, but I got the full Jetman73!

    Unceremonious dump.

    Well, maybe our reps as circle jerkers is deserved then.

    All I was doing was pointing out the obvious.

    How can you objectively, AS A SPORTS FAN, discuss this whole scandal without a thoughtful reflection on the fact that our own head coach was a Patriot during the SB victories everyone says were tainted?

    I made no accusations other than articulated assumptions that should be perhaps examined.

    Its amusing that this was worthy of continued debate, post dump, by the Mods who dumped it though!

    That reeks of censorship.

    But I, a loyal JI minion, will accept my dumpage with the knowledge that it was done with the best interests of my team in mind.

    Thank you.

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