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Thread: Johan Santana

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad101 View Post
    Theres is no excuse. Trying to write Johan off based on a 17 game span is your job not mine. Barring a injury I look forward to you bumping this thread as often as the Melky HR thread. That one seems to have withered away as I suspect this one will.
    No one is writing off Johan, and this post should be bumped if Johan is lights out later in the year, but I think it is worth talking about at the moment.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad101 View Post
    Actually I was pointing out how Johan has gone from the NL CY in your opinion to being done. Same as Gomez has gone from a bum prospect to now a really nice player.
    Yet you bring up Hughes, Kennedy, Melky... what does that have to do with how Santana is pitching? and please.. show me where any of us has said Santana is done? I have said he isn't the pitcher we seen when he won those 2 CY Young awards...Do you think he is the same pitcher? You think his stuff is the same? According to Olney, plenty of scouts don't.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    No one is writing off Johan, and this post should be bumped if Johan is lights out later in the year, but I think it is worth talking about at the moment.
    Only because in Yankee world it's a way of justifying the 1 win and .250ish batting average the players the Yanks would not give up for a guy who while not dominant yet as is his early season norm, is 5-3 with a ERA in the 3's while having the pen blow 2 other wins.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad101 View Post
    Only because in Yankee world it's a way of justifying the 1 win and .250ish batting average the players the Yanks would not give up for a guy who while not dominant yet as is his early season norm, is 5-3 with a ERA in the 3's while having the pen blow 2 other wins.
    You really hate Yankee fans. LOL

    Anyways... lets wait and see. Lets see how he looks the rest of the way.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    You really hate Yankee fans. LOL

    Anyways... lets wait and see. Lets see how he looks the rest of the way.

    Fair enough but trust me the Mets brass in spite of Buster Olney are a lot less concerned with Johan than the Yanks are with Hughes and Kennedy.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan View Post
    Santana had never had a problem with that in the past.

    From Abraham's blog:

    Fact is, maybe you guys aren't worried, but people within the organization certainly are.
    I gotta love how you're citing Buster Olney and Petr Abraham, 2 notorious Yankee-lovers in the media, as your sources. I mean, were Suzyn Waldman and Michael Kay busy?

    This is just them putting out bull**** to attempt to justify their Yankees not trading for Santana. Hell, most of what they said was pure numbers manipulation or flat out un-true (Santana lost 3-4 mph, LMAO!).

    How about that this is actually statiscally one of Santana's Best First Halfs. In 2004, Santana had a 3.78 ERA in the First Half, and he won the Cy Young that year. In 2005, Santana had a 3.98 ERA in the First Half. In 2006, he did manage to get it down to 2.98, but those are his 3 best years statistically, and 2 of them (1 of his Cy Young Winning Seasons) are behind where Johan Santana is currently at, and the third is certaintly within reach.

    (Also, btw, he gave up 14, 15, and 18 Home Runs in the first half of those 3 seasons).

  7. #47
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    johan has been good to very good all season. he had one bad game. the thing that strikes me most about this thread is the yankees fans seemingly trying to will santana into being damaged goods so they can feel better about not getting him.

  8. #48
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    Yankee fan here. I would want Santana on our team! I think Home runs given up by him have been mostly solo ones(I think that's the case) . He heats up in the second half like Andy P. Meanwhile Phil Hughes get well and get out there.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by neckdemon View Post
    johan has been good to very good all season. he had one bad game. the thing that strikes me most about this thread is the yankees fans seemingly trying to will santana into being damaged goods so they can feel better about not getting him.
    How am I trying to will Santana into being damaged goods by stating facts? What strikes me about this thread is how the Met fans here show absolutely no concern for the guy when people within their organization are.

  10. #50
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    http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=20712

    Jason (Atlanta): You've actually answered every one of the 1,000,000 questions I've ever asked, so let's keep the streak alive. Do you give credence to the whispers that Johan is losing a bit of his luster, or are too many people forgetting he's tradionally been a second half pitcher?

    SportsNation Jayson Stark: I do. I've heard from too many scouts and hitters that he hasn't been the same. Barely even throws the slider. Hanging more changeups. Both stuff and command not as crisp. But you know what? He's STILL great. And as you said, he's been a second-half pitcher. So I still say he's the least of the Mets' worries. And congratulations on extending your streak to 1,000,001.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan View Post
    Jayson Stark's answer doesnt really strike fear into my heart at all.

    Johan is a pitcher, if he has lost something, Im sure he will figure out how to make necessary adjustments to enhance his game, all the great ones do.

  12. #52
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    Johan moves to 7-3. Only Webb has won more in the NL and the Mets are 9-3 in his starts. Watching closely tonight Johan may not have the feel for his slider yet this season but he is still good enough to win the majority of his starts. If the slider returns we should see his patented big run. If not we may just have to settle for a very, very good pitcher.

    With the two big wins this week by Johan it may be more accurate to focus the "concern" across town on the Yanks presumed Ace.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad101 View Post
    Johan moves to 7-3. Only Webb has won more in the NL and the Mets are 9-3 in his starts. Watching closely tonight Johan may not have the feel for his slider yet this season but he is still good enough to win the majority of his starts. If the slider returns we should see his patented big run. If not we may just have to settle for a very, very good pitcher.

    With the two big wins this week by Johan it may be more accurate to focus the "concern" across town on the Yanks presumed Ace.
    When the Yankees ace signs a 6 year deal at over $20M per, then we'll focus "concern" on him.

    Obviously Johan is going to be very good this year. The concern should be, given his declining K rate and increase in HR's, for how long.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan View Post
    When the Yankees ace signs a 6 year deal at over $20M per, then we'll focus "concern" on him.

    Obviously Johan is going to be very good this year. The concern should be, given his declining K rate and increase in HR's, for how long.
    He is actually of to one of his better starts in years if you look into ERA. I know you stats guys look at other peripherals, but it is worthy of mention.

  15. #55
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    Went to the game last night. Santana was flat out dominant. He had good command on his changeup, FB was popping at a nice velocity and he was working in his slider more against the lefties. The best thing was that, he made big pitches and in the middle innings got quick outs.

    It also seems like he has tweaked something in his mechanics or it's just Irony because in his last 3 starts, 1 HR allowed and his GB:FB ratio is 37:19, very unlike him.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan View Post
    When the Yankees ace signs a 6 year deal at over $20M per, then we'll focus "concern" on him.
    Obviously Johan is going to be very good this year. The concern should be, given his declining K rate and increase in HR's, for how long.

    LOL so we should worry about "down the road" because he has dropped off some in his strikeout totals? We DON'T CARE about his contract and trying to use it as a "issue" is weak considering that the Yanks are currently paying a couple of guys named Pavano and Igawa.

    Wang will never sign a 20 mill a year contract due to situations such as last October. The Yankees had zero problem reminding him of that concern during arbitration negotiations.

    To get a Johan you have to overpay in both dollars and years and hope you get good production for 3/4's of the contract length. That is a fact of baseball and you will surely find out when you have to fill some holes next off season.

    I can just see the Yanks saying no to Sabathia at 6 years say 18mill .

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by chad101 View Post
    LOL so we should worry about "down the road" because he has dropped off some in his strikeout totals? We DON'T CARE about his contract and trying to use it as a "issue" is weak considering that the Yanks are currently paying a couple of guys named Pavano and Igawa.

    Wang will never sign a 20 mill a year contract due to situations such as last October. The Yankees had zero problem reminding him of that concern during arbitration negotiations.

    To get a Johan you have to overpay in both dollars and years and hope you get good production for 3/4's of the contract length. That is a fact of baseball and you will surely find out when you have to fill some holes next off season.

    I can just see the Yanks saying no to Sabathia at 6 years say 18mill .

    Thankfully Pavano will be off the books after this season, that contract would hand cuff many teams, fortunately not the Yankees.

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