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Thread: The Gulf of Tonkin a Hoax!

  1. #21
    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2584703]token,
    i dunno, what were our enemies' motives in trying to
    dominate/enslave the world?

    [B]why do millions try to enter this evil country illegally every year?[/B]

    are they evil-doers also?

    ****

    no thanks to the likes of sicko, sociopathic lib teachers/media,
    we have people questioning our country 24x7[/QUOTE]

    well if it is between Mexico and the US, I would choose the US


    And was Vietnam really going to enslave the world?

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2584502]oh great

    yet another anti-Catholic, anti-Semitic ron paul disciple
    crawling out of the slime

    or lib

    hard to tell these days which hates themselves or america more


    [URL]http://qesdb.usaid.gov/gbk/[/URL]
    [URL]http://www.globalissues.org/TradeRelated/Debt/USAid.asp[/URL][/QUOTE]
    Flush-

    Here is another example. Last I heard there was no oil coming from Rwanda.
    [url]http://www.fhi.org/en/AboutFHI/Media/Releases/res_RwandaStudyHIVFundingHlthSvcs.htm[/url]

    Hey, even famous lib Bob Geldof praised GWB for his efforts.
    [url]http://www.peopleandplanet.net/doc.php?id=1960[/url]

  3. #23
    [QUOTE=HDCentStOhio;2584396][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGRvWMq38XQ[/url][/QUOTE]

    Haha, stupid old honkey

    That's funny, but I was thinking more like this -

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYymnxoQnf8[/url]

    Buckley to Vidal: "I'll sock you in your goddamn face"

  4. #24
    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2584693]willem dafoe,

    I gave you 2 links for some sample analysis,
    do you want me to read them for you too?

    truthfully,what do wmd's, which are all over the ME,
    or oil, have to do with the topic of US foreign aid,
    or the rationale for/against such aid.

    i couldnt help but notice
    that you posted that Jerusalem
    (read: those evil Jews)
    and the Vatican
    (read: those evil kid touching Catholics)
    more or less run America, ~and~
    the US doesnt help anyone,
    and I gave you 2 internetz links, of potentially
    hundreds, that describe in detail otherwise.

    so which is the truth?
    easily googled facts?
    or your wild-eyed posts?

    you now ask us who have we helped out of kindness...
    guess the 2004 tsunami victims, and the latest
    flood/earthquake victims in myanmar and china dont count

    truth be told, if you don't know now what good the USA has done
    over the last 50-75 years all over the world, you may never know[/QUOTE]

    two links???...of what? i went through those liinks and they showed me nothing that shows how this government treats its neighbors. recycling what you already stole doesnt count.

    now, because its on "google" its considered a fact? I remember when the bible would say that "he who disobeyed his land god in essence disobeys his spritiual god, meaning slaves disobeying their "owner's". is that a fact because it was in the bible? You see, what i've noticed about this world is that things change with the times. information on websites are always manipulated, both to credit/discredit America or any other nation, for whatever reasons. but I dont need a website to prove or disprove what I witness. Diamonds being so precious a stone only because Debeers and the rest of these places put caps on it to jack the price to high hell. The government using contra forces to bring drugs into this country to help support the stock market, the government raping a continent like africa and countries in the middle east for natural materials and when they leave the leave nothing but mayhem. My opinion is that those links dont discredit what im saying. there's enough damage that this government has done dispite what the people of this nation like myself have personally been against. How many times have you heard about this government infltrating other nations just becuse they wanted to and it never made main stream news....just a little corner on the side with about 3 lines yet thousands of people either died or lost their homes because they were burned to the ground or taken over?

    We can go link for link, i bet I can send you more links about how this government basically invaded places and enforced laws on people that they shouldnt have.

    am i lying?

    for all that you can say what we're doing in Iraq now is a beautiful thing. "Yeah, we're trying to spread democracy and free elections to Iraq. So what we have to kill over 1 million people and take the oil to do so, we still did a good thing."

    Dude, we dont even have a republic or free elections here, how the hell are we going to give that to another country? matter of fact, who are we to tell another how to live? thats the main point of a democracy,....a choice.
    Last edited by villain_the_foe; 06-15-2008 at 07:50 PM.

  5. #25
    [QUOTE=pauliec;2584735]Haha, stupid old honkey

    That's funny, but I was thinking more like this -

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYymnxoQnf8[/url]

    Buckley to Vidal: "I'll sock you in your goddamn face"[/QUOTE]

    In the clip you provided with vidal and Buckley, they both acted like arrogant asses.

    but the bottom line is that Vidal is 100% correct with his opening statements about the Vietnam war. Listen again to the opening segment and tell me where his assessment is incorrect.
    Last edited by intelligentjetsfan; 06-15-2008 at 09:04 PM.

  6. #26
    [QUOTE]The government using contra forces to bring drugs into this country to help support the stock market, the government raping a continent like africa and countries in the middle east for natural materials and when they leave the leave nothing but mayhem.[/QUOTE]

    :eek: :rolleyes:

  7. #27
    [QUOTE=doggin94it;2584987]:eek: :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    seriously, I didnt even know that was funny. Im dismissing you.

    I guess you would see it different if it wasnt 1,000,000 Iraqi soldiers and civilians the same to mothers and fathers out there but if it was those two beautiful little people I notice in your avatar. Maybe it wouldnt be so funny to you then. this is the real world, a world that they are going to grow up in, as well as my loved ones. I dont want a f'ing president and cabinet who does things like this, and thats all we've had throughout history because its about maintaining the money and controling the population to these people. I guess im stupid though and I dont know what im talking about. Fine....We'll soon see who's the stupid one believeing conpiracy websites.
    of reality.

    Here's a reality.
    [url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=BoXxZHANTpU&feature=related[/url]
    Last edited by villain_the_foe; 06-16-2008 at 05:20 AM.

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;2584987]:eek: :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    He may seem a bit misguided, Doggin'...but he isn't that far off the mark...

  9. #29
    [QUOTE=doggin94it;2584987]:eek: :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    [B][SIZE="4"]
    Gary Webb[/SIZE][/B]

    In August of 1996 the San Jose Mercury News published Webb's "Dark Alliance", a 20,000 word, three-part investigative series which alleged that Nicaraguan drug traffickers had sold and distributed crack cocaine in Los Angeles during the 1980s, and that drug profits were used to fund the CIA-supported Nicaraguan Contras. Webb never asserted that the CIA directly aided drug dealers to raise money for the Contras, but he did document that the CIA was aware of the cocaine transactions and the large shipments of cocaine into the U.S. by the Contra personnel.[1] "Dark Alliance" received national attention. At the height of the interest, the web version of it on San Jose Mercury News website received 1.3 million hits a day. According to the Columbia Journalism Review, the series became "the most talked-about piece of journalism in 1996 and arguably the most famous -- some would say infamous — set of articles of the decade."[2]

    Webb supported his story with documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act, subsequently including a 450-page declassified version of an October 1988 report by CIA Inspector General Frederick Hitz. According to Webb and his supporters, the evidence demonstrates that White House officials, including Oliver North, knew about and supported using money from drug trafficking to fund the contras, and these officials neglected to pass any information along to the DEA. The 1988 report from the Senate Subcommittee on Narcotics, Terrorism and International Operations of the Committee on Foreign Relations led by Sen. John Kerry commented that there were "serious questions as to whether or not US officials involved in Central America failed to address the drug issue for fear of jeopardizing the war effort against Nicaragua."[3]

    “ If we had met five years ago, you wouldn't have found a more staunch defender of the newspaper industry than me ... I was winning awards, getting raises, lecturing college classes, appearing on TV shows, and judging journalism contests. So how could I possibly agree with people like Noam Chomsky and Ben Bagdikian, who were claiming the system didn't work, that it was steered by powerful special interests and corporations, and existed to protect the power elite? And then I wrote some stories that made me realize how sadly misplaced my bliss had been. The reason I'd enjoyed such smooth sailing for so long hadn't been, as I'd assumed, because I was careful and diligent and good at my job ... The truth was that, in all those years, I hadn't written anything important enough to suppress... ”
    —Gary Webb[4].

    Immediately, denials began to emerge refuting the assertions Webb made in "Dark Alliance". Reports in the Washington Post (Oct 4, 1996), Los Angeles Times, and New York Times (Oct 21, 1996), tried to debunk the link between the Contras and the crack epidemic. Post ombudsman Geneva Overholser agreed with critics that her paper's response to Webb's series showed "misdirected zeal" and "more passion for sniffing out the flaws in San Jose's answer than for sniffing out a better answer themselves."[5] Richard Thieme argued in an opinion piece that the major news outlets focused on attacking Webb or less relevant parts of the story, leaving Webb's thesis largely intact.[6] Overholser concluded there was "strong previous evidence that the CIA at least chose to overlook contra involvement in the drug trade.... Would that we had welcomed the surge of public interest as an occasion to return to a subject the Post and the public had given short shrift. Alas, dismissing someone else's story as old news comes more naturally."[7]

    Robert Parry, who in 1985 became the first reporter to accuse the Contras of involvement in drug trafficking,[2] wrote that the Post's denunciation of Webb was ironic, because the paper "had long pooh-poohed earlier allegations that the Contras were implicated in drug shipments" but now "the newspaper was finally accepting the reality of Contra cocaine trafficking, albeit in a backhanded way."[8]

    In response to these attacks, Webb created a web site that contained primary documents, transcripts, and audio interviews. By January 1997, Webb's editors no longer contacted him about his stories. In March, Webb was informed that the paper was going to address the readers about his series. On May 11, 1997, Mercury News executive editor Jerry Ceppos published an editorial describing the series as an "important work" and "solidly documented," but criticized the series for: a reliance on one interpretation of complicated, sometimes-conflicting pieces of evidence; failing to estimate the amount of money involved; for oversimplifying the crack epidemic; and for creating impressions that were open to misinterpretation through imprecise language and graphics.[9] Webb was reassigned to a suburban bureau 150 miles from his home. Because of the long commute, Webb quit the paper in December 1997. His marriage had by then fallen apart, and his career was destroyed. On December 18, 1997, The Washington Post and The New York Times reported that CIA Inspector General Frederick Hitz's investigation found no links between the CIA and the cocaine traffickers.

    Webb alleged that the 1997 backlash was a form of media manipulation. "The government side of the story is coming through the Los Angeles Times, the New York Times, the Washington Post," Webb stated. "They use the giant corporate press rather than saying anything directly. If you work through friendly reporters on major newspapers, it comes off as the New York Times saying it and not a mouthpiece of the CIA."[9] James Aucoin, a communications professor who specializes in the history of investigative reporting, wrote: "In the case of Gary Webb's charges against the CIA and the Contras, the major dailies came after him. Media institutions are now part of the establishment and they have a lot invested in that establishment."[9]


    [edit] Book
    In 1999, Webb published Dark Alliance: The CIA, the Contras, and the Crack Cocaine Explosion, complete with extensive source citations. The book received mixed reviews.

    The book includes an account of a meeting between a pilot (who was making drug/arms runs between San Francisco and Costa Rica) with two Contra leaders who were also partners with the San Francisco-based Contra/drug smuggler Norwin Meneses. According to eyewitnesses, Ivan Gomez, identified by one of the Contras as a CIA agent, was allegedly present at the drug transactions. The pilot told Hitz that Gomez said he was there to "ensure that the profits from the cocaine went to the Contras and not into someone's pocket."

    According to Webb, Judd Iverson, a San Francisco defense attorney who represented former Contra Julio Zavala, discovered compelling evidence demonstrating that "agents of the U.S. government were intricately involved in sanctioning cocaine trafficking to raise funds for Contra revolutionary activity".[10] Soon after, members of the Justice Department persuaded U.S. District Court Judge Robert Peckham to seal the documents in the case.

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Webb[/url]

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2584242]What a smelly crock of poo.

    100 years? Not even close, we'll be "over" him and his "damage" before we get to President #2 after him, or the next time we find the various Nations of the World in need of our help (Help they will never appreciate anyway, but eh)..

    Vidal seems to imply we shouldn't be afriad of "violating the American constitution", and just overthrow him anyway (A coup, where someone selected, not elected, becomes King of the Dictatorship he thinks America is? How quaint and rebellious).

    And as for being a Dictatorship. Thats so laughable to anyone with a shred of common sense, it's not even worth commenting on. Tin Foil Hat Wearers of the World Unite!:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    how do you propose we pay down the trillions in debt he added (to Reagan's and H.W. Bush's already ridiculously large debt) in 4-8 years?

    how quickly can we honestly expect our constitutional rights to be restored?

    how quickly can we restore the value of the dollar? the world's goodwill and opinion of the US? the trust of our allies? our standing in the world back to a leader everyone wants to follow? etc/etc/etc

    100 years sounds about right to me

  11. #31
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    btw was this thread bumped from a decades ago Jets Insider newletter or something?

    because this certainly isn't new or news

  12. #32
    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2585127]how do you propose we pay down the trillions in debt he added (to Reagan's and H.W. Bush's already ridiculously large debt) in 4-8 years?

    how quickly can we honestly expect our constitutional rights to be restored?

    how quickly can we restore the value of the dollar? the world's goodwill and opinion of the US? the trust of our allies? our standing in the world back to a leader everyone wants to follow? etc/etc/etc

    100 years sounds about right to me[/QUOTE]

    Really? I'm shocked.

    No.....really.:rolleyes: I' shocked you wouldn't say 1000 years. You're like that.

    I guess if you're right, we should just give up now, the World will be destroyed in 100 years due to Climate Change, so why bother trying to "recover" from Bush at all?

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=HDCentStOhio;2584396][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGRvWMq38XQ[/url][/QUOTE]

    an essayist.....funny who the looney's on the left run to for validation....

  14. #34
    [quote=PlumberKhan;2585074]He may seem a bit misguided, Doggin'...but he isn't that far off the mark...[/quote]

    So, uh . . . the government is importing drugs to prop up the stock market?

    How does that even work as a theory? Kid's just insane. No biggie.

    Not to mention that the idea that the US is raping africa for raw materials is so ignorant and ass backwards that it astounds me. The reason Africa is so neglected is that for the most part it has very little in the way of natural resources - mainly precious metals/gemstones and some oil.

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