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Thread: Obama wobbles on withdrawing Iraq troops (candidate for "change" flips again)....

  1. #1
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    Obama wobbles on withdrawing Iraq troops (candidate for "change" flips again)....

    [QUOTE][B]US election: Barack Obama wobbles on withdrawing Iraq troops
    By Tim Shipman in Washington [/B]

    Last Updated: 12:20AM BST 04/07/2008
    Senator Barack Obama has rushed to clarify his position on the Iraq War after he appeared to wobble on a commitment to withdraw US ground troops within 16 months, a central plank of his candidacy.

    The Democratic presidential nominee used a press conference to say that the timetable was not set in stone and that he would adjust his plans based on conditions on the ground when he visits Iraq later this month.

    On his website, Mr Obama promises he "will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months".

    But he told journalists in North Dakota that those policies could be "refined" in the light of what he finds in Iraq.

    "I've always said the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability," he said.

    "When I go to Iraq and have a chance to talk to some of the commanders on the ground, I'm sure I'll have more information and will continue to refine my policies."

    The comments were immediately seized upon by his rival, Republican Senator John McCain, a supporter of the Iraq War who has taunted Mr Obama over his failure to visit Iraq for more than two years.

    Brian Rogers, a spokesman for Mr McCain, said: “Since announcing his campaign in 2007, the central premise of Barack Obama’s candidacy was his commitment to begin withdrawing American troops from Iraq immediately. Today, Barack Obama reversed that position proving once again that his words do not matter.

    "Now that Barack Obama has changed course and proven his past positions to be just empty words, we would like to congratulate him for accepting John McCain’s principled stand on this critical national security issue.

    "If he had visited Iraq sooner or actually had a one-on-one meeting with General (David) Petraeus, he would have changed his position long ago.”

    The charge stung Mr Obama into a swift response. He held a second press conference just a few hours later to clarify his comments.

    He accused the McCain camp of suggesting "we were changing our policy when we haven't".

    "I've given no indication of a change in policy. I intend to end this war. That position has not changed. I have not equivocated on that position. I am not searching for manoeuvering room with respect to that position," Mr Obama said.

    The charge that he is changing his mind is toxic for three reasons.

    It allows Mr McCain to argue that he, not Mr Obama, has a better understanding of what now needs to be done in Iraq.

    Secondly, it gives Republicans evidence to use to depict Mr Obama as just another cynical politician prepared to change his position to win votes.

    Finally, any shift on Iraq risks alienating the left-wing of his own party, who have grown uneasy at some more moderate positions he has struck in recent weeks.
    [/QUOTE]

    [url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2243536/US-election-Barack-Obama-wobbles-on-withdrawing-Iraq-troops.html[/url]

    first the flip on FISA and now this....hear those popping sounds??? those are the heads of the nutjobs at nutroots exploding...

  2. #2
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    I'm shocked :rolleyes:

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2613950][url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/uselection2008/barackobama/2243536/US-election-Barack-Obama-wobbles-on-withdrawing-Iraq-troops.html[/url]

    first the flip on FISA and now this....hear those popping sounds??? those are the heads of the nutjobs at nutroots exploding...[/QUOTE]

    wow, are you guys running dry on the right



    seriously?


    This is all you have?

    I mean, where are the flips?

    seriously?


    What is next?


    [QUOTE]This just in, Obama says he likes cereal for breakfast but was caught this morning eating a banana. Has he flipped from big fiber to big potassium????[/QUOTE]

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=piney;2613978]wow, are you guys running dry on the right



    seriously?


    This is all you have?

    I mean, where are the flips?

    seriously?


    What is next?[/QUOTE]


    Great analogy :rolleyes:

    There are people voting for Obama because they actually believe all troops will be withdrawn from Iraq after 16 months of him on office. Just like people voted for all Democractic Senators and Representatives in 2006 because they believed those legislators would be able to "end the war."

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=pauliec;2614000]Great analogy :rolleyes:

    There are people voting for Obama because they actually believe all troops will be withdrawn from Iraq after 16 months of him on office. Just like people voted for all Democractic Senators and Representatives in 2006 because they believed those legislators would be able to "end the war."[/QUOTE]

    but that isn't Obama's fault

    he has always tempered his desire to withdraw with the intent on making it as responsible as possible.

    His website has not changed his Iraq proposal since it went up.

    Plus, he has always made sure to note that he is talking about combat troops, and not all of our armed forces.

    Only someone not paying attention would conclude that Obama, regardless of the ramifications, would bring every soldier home.

  6. #6
    All he is saying is that he'll adjust to new facts if they emerge. He wants to withdraw. He intends to withdraw. That's his default position going in. But if something occurs that makes that untenable, or his timeline unrealistic, he'll adjust to new facts. He has always indicated that would be the case, saying he would "be as responsible getting out as we were careless getting in," or some such line.

    Anything other than that would be irresponsible and, frankly, exactly like George Bush, who spent the first four years in Iraq refusing to acknowledge reality in the least in order to appear "resolute."

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2614095]All he is saying is that he'll adjust to new facts if they emerge. He wants to withdraw. He intends to withdraw. That's his default position going in. But if something occurs that makes that untenable, or his timeline unrealistic, he'll adjust to new facts. He has always indicated that would be the case, saying he would "be as responsible getting out as we were careless getting in," or some such line.

    Anything other than that would be irresponsible and, frankly, exactly like George Bush, who spent the first four years in Iraq refusing to acknowledge reality in the least in order to appear "resolute."[/QUOTE]

    That was Nixon's position on VN during the election.

    Nobody knows what the next President is going to do once they are fully briefed. All these positions today are all based on polling and mean absolutely nothing.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 07-04-2008 at 10:01 AM.

  8. #8
    If you go by this forum Obama is running against the perfect politician.

    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2614124]That was Nixon's position on VN during the election.

    Nobody knows what the next President is going to do once they are fully briefed. All these positions today are all based on polling and mean absolutely nothing.[/QUOTE]

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2614000]Great analogy :rolleyes:

    There are people voting for Obama because they actually believe all troops will be withdrawn from Iraq after 16 months of him on office. Just like people voted for all Democractic Senators and Representatives in 2006 because they believed those legislators would be able to "end the war."[/QUOTE]

    why would you expect anything reasonable from this clown??

    a few days ago he had [B]NO[/B] clue as to BO's stance on troop withdrawal for iraq...just like he had no clue as to BO's flip on FISA, or the way BO "voted" on the original FISA bill, or BO's previous statements on the DC gun ban, etc, etc until he was educated about them on this fourm....

    you are trying to reason with what is nothing more then an obama groupie who has shown time and time again he makes comments based on nothing more then what he pulls from the seat of his pants...
    Last edited by Come Back to NY; 07-04-2008 at 05:06 PM.

  10. #10
    We need a new plague. Start over. Someone hit reset.

  11. #11
    It's so funny how both sides think there man doesn't have the right to change his mind over years...

  12. #12
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    This is no flip.

    He is just saying what I would hope any sane human would say, especially one trying to become the most powerful man in the world.

    He is saying that he will listen to his people when in office, and gather the proper information once he is actually able to.

    He is saying he will not be some stubborn ass and make iron clad decisions before he is even given information.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=GreekMooMan;2614462]This is no flip.

    He is just saying what I would hope any sane human would say, especially one trying to become the most powerful man in the world.

    He is saying that he will listen to his people when in office, and gather the proper information once he is actually able to.

    He is saying he will not be some stubborn ass and make iron clad decisions before he is even given information.[/QUOTE]

    Just like when he was on the outside and had no information it was easy to say he was against the war. Any sane person is always against war unless of course they are privy to facts that might impact their actual decissions when they have the actual responsibility of protecting the American people.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 07-05-2008 at 07:39 AM.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2614628]Just like when he was on the outside and had no information it was easy to say he was against the war. Any sane person is always against war unless of course they are privy to facts that might impact their actual decissions when they have the actual responsibility of protecting the American people.[/QUOTE]

    he didn't just say he was against the war- he built his campaign and following largely on the promise to have ALL the troops out in 16 months- now he's backtracking...huge difference....

    and don't take my word for it- go to the far left blogosphere who is largely responsible for making him the nominee and see their reaction....

  15. #15
    Have you figured it out yet? No one cares about the extreme Right or Left. You want to claim that is the only reason why he got the nomination, but according to you the far left can't even get a successful radio station.

    Which is it? Is the extreme left sooo powerful or they can't do anything right?

    Great source the "far left blogosphere", you, DeanPats and Weeb can check that out for us. Thanks in advance.

    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2614809]he didn't just say he was against the war- he built his campaign and following largely on the promise to have ALL the troops out in 16 months- now he's backtracking...huge difference....

    and don't take my word for it- go to the far left blogosphere who is largely responsible for making him the nominee and see their reaction....[/QUOTE]

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2614809]he didn't just say he was against the war- he built his campaign and following largely on the promise to have ALL the troops out in 16 months- now he's backtracking...huge difference....

    and don't take my word for it- go to the far left blogosphere who is largely responsible for making him the nominee and see their reaction....[/QUOTE]

    You can't win the Presidency by pandering to the left just the nomination. The guy has the election locked up the left has no where to go. This is exactly what Mr. Bill did, pandered to the left governed from the center.

    This election is going to be about high gas prices and high food prices. The left wing agenda of universal health, income redistribution and pulling out of the ME can only be pushed if the Dems want to hold Congress for 2 years and the Presidency for 4 years.

    Personal economic and physical security trump everything else when people don't have it or feel it slipping away. An ongoing war in the worlds second richest oil country is not going to fly with heating oil and gas at 6 dollars comes November. We are going to be in Iraq for a long time.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2614809]he didn't just say he was against the war- he built his campaign and following largely on the promise to have ALL the troops out in 16 months- now he's backtracking...huge difference....

    and don't take my word for it- go to the far left blogosphere who is largely responsible for making him the nominee and see their reaction....[/QUOTE]

    No, he said the goal was to get all combat forces out in 16 months and that is still his goal. He always said we will still have a presence in Iraq in the form of security and advisors.

    Just because Obama's recents statements don't jibe with your mischaracterization of his position doesn't mean he has flip flopped.

    Plus if the surge has been so successful and the tide is truly turning over there, wouldn't it make it easier to get the troops out in 16 months?

  18. #18
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    [quote=Klecko73isGod;2615581]No, he said the goal was to get all combat forces out in 16 months and that is still his goal. He always said we will still have a presence in Iraq in the form of security and advisors.

    Just because Obama's recents statements don't jibe with your mischaracterization of his position doesn't mean he has flip flopped.

    Plus if the surge has been so successful and the tide is truly turning over there, wouldn't it make it easier to get the troops out in 16 months?[/quote]

    b Hussein has flipped a number of times on this issue over the years, all for political expediency

    back @ April 1, jousting w/ McCain over # of troops in Iraq:

    “What I said was I would have a strike force in the region, perhaps in Iraq, perhaps outside Iraq so we could take advantage of or we could deal with potential problems that might take place in the region,” Obama said. “That’s very different from saying we’d have a permanent occupation in Iraq. And it’s certainly different from saying we would have a high level of combat troops inside Iraq for a decade or two decades or, as John McCain said, perhaps 100 years.”

    wonder how many Obama-ized troops make up a "strike force"

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