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Thread: A not-so-glorious Fourth?

  1. #1

    A not-so-glorious Fourth?

    [SIZE="4"][B]U.S. atrocities are unworthy of our heritage.[/B][/SIZE]
    By Chris Satullo

    Inquirer Columnist

    [url]http://www.wral.com/news/local/politics/story/1755723/[/url]

    Put the fireworks in storage.
    Cancel the parade.

    Tuck the soaring speeches in a drawer for another time.

    This year, America doesn't deserve to celebrate its birthday. This Fourth of July should be a day of quiet and atonement.

    For we have sinned.

    We have failed to pay attention. We've settled for lame excuses. We've spit on the memory of those who did that brave, brave thing in Philadelphia 232 years ago.

    The America those men founded should never torture a prisoner.

    The America they founded should never imprison people for years without charge or hearing.

    The America they founded should never ship prisoners to foreign lands, knowing their new jailers might torture them.

    Such abuses once were committed by the arrogant crowns of Europe, spawning rebellion.

    Today, our nation does such things in the name of our safety. Petrified, unwilling to take the risks that love of liberty demands, we close our eyes.

    We have done such things, on orders from the Oval Office. We have done them, without general outrage or shame.

    Abu Ghraib. Guantanamo. CIA secret prisons. "Rendition" of prisoners to foreign torture chambers.

    It's not enough that we had good reason to be scared.

    The men huddled long ago in Philadelphia had better reason. A British fleet floated off the Jersey coast, full of hands eager to hang them from the nearest lampposts.

    Yet they pledged their lives and sacred honor - no idle vow - to defend the "inalienable rights" of men. Inalienable - what does that signify? It means rights that belong to each person, simply by virtue of being human. Rights that can never be taken away, no matter what evil a person might do or might intend.

    Surely one of those is the right not to be tortured. Surely that is a piece of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

    This is the creed of July 4: No matter what it costs us, no matter how it scares us, no matter how foolish it seems to a cynical world, America should stand up for human rights.

    No, not even the brave men who picked up a quill, dipped it in ink and signed the parchment that summer day in Philadelphia lived up perfectly to the creed. But they did something extraordinary, founding a new nation upon a vow to oppose all the evil habits of tyranny.

    That is why history still honors them.

    But what will history think of us, of how we responded to our great challenge? Sept. 11 was a hideous evil, a grievous wound. Yet, truth told, it has not summoned our better angels as often as our worst.

    We have betrayed the July 4 creed. We trample the vows we make, hand to heart.

    Don't imagine that only the torturer's hand bears the guilt. The guilt reaches deep inside our Capitol, and beyond that - to us.

    Our silence is complicit. In our name, innocents were jailed, humans tortured, our Constitution mangled. And we said so little.

    We can't claim not to have known. The best among us raised the alarm. Heroes in uniform, judges in robes, they opposed the perverse logic of an administration drenched in fear, drunk on power.

    But did we heed them? Hardly. Barely . . .

    We were so busy. Soccer practice at 6. A credit card balance to fret. The final vote on Idol.

    We left it to those in power to keep our precious selves from harm. Whatever it took.

    We took the coward's way.

    The world sees this, even if we are too dim to grasp it. We've lost respect. We've shamed the memory of Jefferson, Adams and Franklin.

    And all for a scam. The waterboarding, the snarling dogs, the theft of sleep - all the diabolical tricks haven't made us safer. They may have averted this plot or that. But they've spawned new enemies by the thousands, made the jihadist rants ring true to so many ears.

    So put out no flags.

    Sing no patriotic hymns.

    We deserve no Fourth this year.

    Let us atone, in quiet and humility. Let us spend the day truly studying the example of our Founders. May we earn a new birth of courage before our nation's birthday next rolls around.

  2. #2
    Drama is for fags.

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=sackdance;2614683]Drama is for fags.[/QUOTE]

    fag comments are for fifth graders.

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2614646][SIZE="4"][B]U.S. atrocities are unworthy of our heritage.[/B][/SIZE]
    By Chris Satullo

    Inquirer Columnist

    [url]http://www.wral.com/news/local/politics/story/1755723/[/url]

    Put the fireworks in storage.
    Cancel the parade.

    Tuck the soaring speeches in a drawer for another time.

    This year, America doesn't deserve to celebrate its birthday. This Fourth of July should be a day of quiet and atonement.

    For we have sinned.

    We have failed to pay attention. We've settled for lame excuses. We've spit on the memory of those who did that brave, brave thing in Philadelphia 232 years ago.

    The America those men founded should never torture a prisoner.

    The America they founded should never imprison people for years without charge or hearing.

    The America they founded should never ship prisoners to foreign lands, knowing their new jailers might torture them.

    Such abuses once were committed by the arrogant crowns of Europe, spawning rebellion.

    Today, our nation does such things in the name of our safety. Petrified, unwilling to take the risks that love of liberty demands, we close our eyes.

    We have done such things, on orders from the Oval Office. We have done them, without general outrage or shame.

    Abu Ghraib. Guantanamo. CIA secret prisons. "Rendition" of prisoners to foreign torture chambers.

    It's not enough that we had good reason to be scared.

    The men huddled long ago in Philadelphia had better reason. A British fleet floated off the Jersey coast, full of hands eager to hang them from the nearest lampposts.

    Yet they pledged their lives and sacred honor - no idle vow - to defend the "inalienable rights" of men. Inalienable - what does that signify? It means rights that belong to each person, simply by virtue of being human. Rights that can never be taken away, no matter what evil a person might do or might intend.

    Surely one of those is the right not to be tortured. Surely that is a piece of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

    This is the creed of July 4: No matter what it costs us, no matter how it scares us, no matter how foolish it seems to a cynical world, America should stand up for human rights.

    No, not even the brave men who picked up a quill, dipped it in ink and signed the parchment that summer day in Philadelphia lived up perfectly to the creed. But they did something extraordinary, founding a new nation upon a vow to oppose all the evil habits of tyranny.

    That is why history still honors them.

    But what will history think of us, of how we responded to our great challenge? Sept. 11 was a hideous evil, a grievous wound. Yet, truth told, it has not summoned our better angels as often as our worst.

    We have betrayed the July 4 creed. We trample the vows we make, hand to heart.

    Don't imagine that only the torturer's hand bears the guilt. The guilt reaches deep inside our Capitol, and beyond that - to us.

    Our silence is complicit. In our name, innocents were jailed, humans tortured, our Constitution mangled. And we said so little.

    We can't claim not to have known. The best among us raised the alarm. Heroes in uniform, judges in robes, they opposed the perverse logic of an administration drenched in fear, drunk on power.

    But did we heed them? Hardly. Barely . . .

    We were so busy. Soccer practice at 6. A credit card balance to fret. The final vote on Idol.

    We left it to those in power to keep our precious selves from harm. Whatever it took.

    We took the coward's way.

    The world sees this, even if we are too dim to grasp it. We've lost respect. We've shamed the memory of Jefferson, Adams and Franklin.

    And all for a scam. The waterboarding, the snarling dogs, the theft of sleep - all the diabolical tricks haven't made us safer. They may have averted this plot or that. But they've spawned new enemies by the thousands, made the jihadist rants ring true to so many ears.

    So put out no flags.

    Sing no patriotic hymns.

    We deserve no Fourth this year.

    Let us atone, in quiet and humility. Let us spend the day truly studying the example of our Founders. May we earn a new birth of courage before our nation's birthday next rolls around.[/QUOTE]

    [SIZE="3"]Don't you have an American flag to burn somewhere?....Why don't you go live in France with Johnny Depp....[/SIZE]

  5. #5
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    [quote=intelligentjetsfan;2614646][SIZE=4][B]U.S. atrocities are unworthy of our heritage.[/B][/SIZE]
    By Chris Satullo

    Inquirer Columnist

    [URL]http://www.wral.com/news/local/politics/story/1755723/[/URL]

    Put the fireworks in storage.
    Cancel the parade.

    Tuck the soaring speeches in a drawer for another time.

    This year, America doesn't deserve to celebrate its birthday. This Fourth of July should be a day of quiet and atonement.

    For we have sinned.

    We have failed to pay attention. We've settled for lame excuses. We've spit on the memory of those who did that brave, brave thing in Philadelphia 232 years ago.

    The America those men founded should never torture a prisoner.

    The America they founded should never imprison people for years without charge or hearing.

    The America they founded should never ship prisoners to foreign lands, knowing their new jailers might torture them.

    Such abuses once were committed by the arrogant crowns of Europe, spawning rebellion.

    Today, our nation does such things in the name of our safety. Petrified, unwilling to take the risks that love of liberty demands, we close our eyes.

    We have done such things, on orders from the Oval Office. We have done them, without general outrage or shame.

    Abu Ghraib. Guantanamo. CIA secret prisons. "Rendition" of prisoners to foreign torture chambers.

    It's not enough that we had good reason to be scared.

    The men huddled long ago in Philadelphia had better reason. A British fleet floated off the Jersey coast, full of hands eager to hang them from the nearest lampposts.

    Yet they pledged their lives and sacred honor - no idle vow - to defend the "inalienable rights" of men. Inalienable - what does that signify? It means rights that belong to each person, simply by virtue of being human. Rights that can never be taken away, no matter what evil a person might do or might intend.

    Surely one of those is the right not to be tortured. Surely that is a piece of "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

    This is the creed of July 4: No matter what it costs us, no matter how it scares us, no matter how foolish it seems to a cynical world, America should stand up for human rights.

    No, not even the brave men who picked up a quill, dipped it in ink and signed the parchment that summer day in Philadelphia lived up perfectly to the creed. But they did something extraordinary, founding a new nation upon a vow to oppose all the evil habits of tyranny.

    That is why history still honors them.

    But what will history think of us, of how we responded to our great challenge? Sept. 11 was a hideous evil, a grievous wound. Yet, truth told, it has not summoned our better angels as often as our worst.

    We have betrayed the July 4 creed. We trample the vows we make, hand to heart.

    Don't imagine that only the torturer's hand bears the guilt. The guilt reaches deep inside our Capitol, and beyond that - to us.

    Our silence is complicit. In our name, innocents were jailed, humans tortured, our Constitution mangled. And we said so little.

    We can't claim not to have known. The best among us raised the alarm. Heroes in uniform, judges in robes, they opposed the perverse logic of an administration drenched in fear, drunk on power.

    But did we heed them? Hardly. Barely . . .

    We were so busy. Soccer practice at 6. A credit card balance to fret. The final vote on Idol.

    We left it to those in power to keep our precious selves from harm. Whatever it took.

    We took the coward's way.

    The world sees this, even if we are too dim to grasp it. We've lost respect. We've shamed the memory of Jefferson, Adams and Franklin.

    And all for a scam. The waterboarding, the snarling dogs, the theft of sleep - all the diabolical tricks haven't made us safer. They may have averted this plot or that. But they've spawned new enemies by the thousands, made the jihadist rants ring true to so many ears.

    So put out no flags.

    Sing no patriotic hymns.

    We deserve no Fourth this year.

    Let us atone, in quiet and humility. Let us spend the day truly studying the example of our Founders. May we earn a new birth of courage before our nation's birthday next rolls around.[/quote]

    Sounds like the ilk who preach, spread & spew this do not like it here, so leave go & do not let the door hit you on the way out pinkos. Love it or leave it

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=intelligentjetsfan;2614693]fag comments are for fifth graders.[/QUOTE]
    In that regard most fifth graders know more than their teachers.

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=crazyeffinjetsfan;2614698][SIZE="3"]Don't you have an American flag to burn somewhere?....Why don't you go live in France with Johnny Depp....[/SIZE][/QUOTE]

    Really, is that the best you have?

    Why is it that whenever someone criticizes the US, people say "If you don't like it, get out?" Wouldn't it be better to say, here are some problems that can't be disputed, why don't we try to fix some of the crap that's going on with our country.

    The US government is hugely flawed, short sighted, and grossly ineffective and wasteful. Having said that, do I need to go to France now?

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=Boynton Beach Jets;2614714]Sounds like the ilk who preach, spread & spew this do not like it here, so leave go & do not let the door hit you on the way out pinkos. Love it or leave it[/QUOTE]

    Since when is being critical of our government and exercising your first amendment right to free speech make you "anti-American?"

    If anything, the "love it or leave it" attitude is anti-American. Discouraging people from speaking out is what they do in communist, facist and fundamentalist muslim nations.

  9. #9
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    [quote=chirorob;2614718]Really, is that the best you have?

    Why is it that whenever someone criticizes the US, people say "If you don't like it, get out?" Wouldn't it be better to say, here are some problems that can't be disputed, why don't we try to fix some of the crap that's going on with our country.

    The US government is hugely flawed, short sighted, and grossly ineffective and wasteful. Having said that, do I need to go to France now?[/quote]


    These liberal/pinkos do not get it, people are breaking there way into this country not people breaking there way out. They see greatness here. There is far more great in this country then not. If you think there is not maybe you will be happy else where (you will not need to breakout by the way). :byebye::byebye::byebye::byebye::byebye:

  10. #10
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    [quote=Klecko73isGod;2614719]Since when is being critical of our government and exercising your first amendment right to free speech make you "anti-American?"

    If anything, the "love it or leave it" attitude is anti-American. Discouraging people from speaking out is what they do in communist, facist and fundamentalist muslim nations.[/quote]


    People can speak out all they want that is what makes this country great, but liberals never see anything good in this country so if you do not like it leave it.

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=Boynton Beach Jets;2614727]These liberal/pinkos do not get it, people are breaking there way into this country not people breaking there way out. They see greatness here. There is far more great in this country then not. If you think there is not maybe you will be happy else where (you will not need to breakout by the way). :byebye::byebye::byebye::byebye::byebye:[/QUOTE]

    The reason people are breaking into this country is that they see the opportunity to get freedoms they don't have and you choose not to exercise.

    Please explain to me how it is un-American to exercise your First-Amendment Right to Free Speech.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=Boynton Beach Jets;2614727]These liberal/pinkos do not get it, people are breaking there way into this country not people breaking there way out. They see greatness here. There is far more great in this country then not. If you think there is not maybe you will be happy else where (you will not need to breakout by the way). :byebye::byebye::byebye::byebye::byebye:[/QUOTE]

    Of course there are great oppotunities here. Some people break in to take advantage of them. You know what those people do? They work their a$$e$ off.

    And too many people who have been here want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Missing something in your life? Tax the rich and have the government give it to you. How about instead of that you get off your butt and work smarter. Or maybe they should pay their bills before buying a big screen TV.

    But to deny that the US gov is bought and paid for is silly. This election is proof, it isn't going to be decided on issues, but on who can raise the most money. That, and people are going to vote for a candidate because, he's young, (or vote for the guy who has experience, aka older). They'll vote for the black guy, or sadly, the guy who isn't black. Or they'll vote for the guy who promises to give them the most stuff for what seems free.

    And, if someone stands up and says, "Hey, maybe something isn't right here. maybe there is a problem." Well then, you give the clever response "Go learn French."

    You know what's really funny about that statement? If I went to France, I'd have to learn French, but people who come here don't have to learn English. But I know, I should leave the country for pointing that out too.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2614719]Since when is being critical of our government and exercising your first amendment right to free speech make you "anti-American?"

    [B]If anything, the "love it or leave it" attitude is anti-American. Discouraging people from speaking out is what they do in communist, facist and fundamentalist muslim nations[/B].[/QUOTE]

    That may be the best line you have ever typed on this webpage. (and you hav typed alot)

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=Boynton Beach Jets;2614730]People can speak out all they want that is what makes this country great, but liberals never see anything good in this country so if you do not like it leave it.[/QUOTE]

    That is 180 degrees from the truth. They see plenty of good in this country. What they don't see is good in our current administration.

    One can easily argue that they love this country more than most and understand the price of freedom more and do not want to see their liberties trampled by their goverment. Is there anything more American than that?

    Regardless of what you may think, flag waving does not equal patriotism.

    Like Thomas Jefferson said, "the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

    But then again, if he were to say that today, he would be labeled an America-hating crackpot. :rolleyes:

  15. #15
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    [quote=Klecko73isGod;2614731]The reason people are breaking into this country is that they see the opportunity to get freedoms they don't have and you choose not to exercise.

    Please explain to me how it is un-American to exercise your First-Amendment Right to Free Speech.[/quote]


    I never said it was un-American to exercise the right for free speech, but there are loads of people who would do anything to live in this country. These people see the positives and greatness of this country. I am simply saying if you do not see the positives and the greatness maybe you would be happy else where. If I was not happy where I was I would want to go where I was happy.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=chirorob;2614718]Really, is that the best you have?

    Why is it that whenever someone criticizes the US, people say "If you don't like it, get out?" Wouldn't it be better to say, here are some problems that can't be disputed, why don't we try to fix some of the crap that's going on with our country.

    The US government is hugely flawed, short sighted, and grossly ineffective and wasteful. Having said that, do I need to go to France now?[/QUOTE]

    It just makes me laugh how these "America Haters" have to trick our kids into their ideas that our Founding Fathers were terrorists....They are trying to breed a society of people who hate this country....All I have to say is, get the #$!* out if you don't like it....Just like the hypocritical Johnny Depp who bashes this country, moves to France because he doesn't want his children to grow up in "this" America, but is willing to make $hitloads of money here on the backs of hardworking Americans who have to spent $50 bucks to bring their families to see one of his garbage movies....Pure treason if you ask me.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=Boynton Beach Jets;2614743]I never said it was un-American to exercise the right for free speech, but there are loads of people who would do anything to live in this country. These people see the positives and greatness of this country. I am simply saying if you do not see the positives and the greatness maybe you would be happy else where. If I was not happy where I was I would want to go where I was happy.[/QUOTE]

    Where are you getting that they don't see the greatness in this country?

    If anything, they're argument is that some of our country's greatness has been diminished by our gonvernment and they want to do something about it.

    How does criticizing your government equate to hating America?

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=crazyeffinjetsfan;2614744]It just makes me laugh how these "America Haters"[B] have to trick our kids into their ideas that our Founding Fathers were terrorists[/B]....They are trying to breed a society of people who hate this country....All I have to say is, get the #$!* out if you don't like it....Just like the hypocritical Johnny Depp who bashes this country, moves to France because he doesn't want his children to grow up in "this" America, but is willing to make $hitloads of money here on the backs of hardworking Americans who have to spent $50 bucks to bring their families to see one of his garbage movies....Pure treason if you ask me.[/QUOTE]

    I didn't get that at all. I think the point was that people have changed so much. What was once the foundation of the country would now be considered terrorism. If the founding fathers saw our country now, I think they would be appalled.

  19. #19
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    [quote=chirorob;2614737]Of course there are great oppotunities here. Some people break in to take advantage of them. [B]You know what those people do? They work their a$$e$ off.[/B]

    And too many people who have been here want everything handed to them on a silver platter. Missing something in your life? Tax the rich and have the government give it to you. How about instead of that you get off your butt and work smarter. Or maybe they should pay their bills before buying a big screen TV.

    But to deny that the US gov is bought and paid for is silly. This election is proof, it isn't going to be decided on issues, but on who can raise the most money. That, and people are going to vote for a candidate because, he's young, (or vote for the guy who has experience, aka older). They'll vote for the black guy, or sadly, the guy who isn't black. Or they'll vote for the guy who promises to give them the most stuff for what seems free.

    And, if someone stands up and says, "Hey, maybe something isn't right here. maybe there is a problem." Well then, you give the clever response "Go learn French."

    You know what's really funny about that statement? If I went to France, I'd have to learn French, but people who come here don't have to learn English. But I know, I should leave the country for pointing that out too.[/quote]

    What is wrong with working your butts off that has been what my parents and my grandparents did to make it here. Why should anybody get a free ride?

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=crazyeffinjetsfan;2614744]It just makes me laugh how these "America Haters" have to trick our kids into their ideas that our Founding Fathers were terrorists....They are trying to breed a society of people who hate this country....All I have to say is, get the #$!* out if you don't like it....Just like the hypocritical Johnny Depp who bashes this country, moves to France because he doesn't want his children to grow up in "this" America, but is willing to make $hitloads of money here on the backs of hardworking Americans who have to spent $50 bucks to bring their families to see one of his garbage movies....Pure treason if you ask me.[/QUOTE]

    Johnny Depp is one person. Don't lump people on this board in with a hypocrite.

    How is IJF tricking kids into believing our Founding Fathers were terrorists?

    He is simply pointing out that if you take some of their statements out of context they can be seen as radical, which they were at the time.

    Whether you choose to believe it or not, the Boston Tea Party was seen in England as an act of economic terrorism.

    Being critical of your government and hating your country are not the same thing. We praised people from Communist countries for speaking out against their governments and labeled them rightfully as dissidents. Fortunately, we have something in this country called the First Amendment which ensures us the right to criticize our government without fear of imprisonment.

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