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Thread: Obama Speech Before La Raza, and His Views on Immigration

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    Obama Speech Before La Raza, and His Views on Immigration

    [QUOTE]July 13, 2008
    Obama's Remarks to La Raza

    [url]http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/07/obamas_remarks_to_la_raza.html[/url]

    The Youtube can be found here:

    [url]http://roadkillrefugee.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/obamas-speech-at-la-raza-conference-713/[/url]

    As prepared for delivery
    National Council of La Raza (NCLR)
    San Diego, California

    I've got to tell you, being here with all of you today feels a little like coming home. Because while I stand here as a candidate for President of the United States, I will never forget that the most important experience in my life came when I was doing what you do each day - working on the ground in our communities to bring about change.

    As some of you know, after college, I moved to Chicago and went to work for a group of churches to help families that had been devastated when the local steel plants closed down. I knew change in those communities wouldn't come easily - but I also knew it wouldn't come at all if we didn't start bringing people together. So I reached out to community leaders - black, brown, and white - and formed coalitions on issues ranging from failing schools to illegal dumping to unimmunized children. We set up job training for the jobless, helped prevent students from dropping out of school, and taught people to stand up to their government when it wasn't standing up for them.

    That work taught me a fundamental truth that has guided me ever since: that in this country, change doesn't come from the top down. Change doesn't happen just because someone in Washington says it should. Change starts when you teach a child to read, or register someone to vote, or help a family buy their first home. It starts when you heal broken bodies and troubled spirits; when you organize neighborhoods into coalitions, and workers into unions. It starts when you send leaders to Washington committed to taking this country in a new direction.

    That's the kind of change you're making every single day. The theme of this conference is the work of your lives: strengthening America together. It's been the work of this organization for four decades - lifting up families and transforming communities across America. And for that, I honor you, I congratulate you, I thank you, and I wish you another forty years as extraordinary as your last.

    I come before you today at a defining moment for our nation. I'm thinking of an article I read in the newspaper a while back about struggling schools in Los Angeles. The article told the story of a boy named Gonzalo, who started falling behind in the seventh grade and wasn't getting the support he needed to catch up. When his mother called the school to complain, nothing changed.

    "Maybe the system is not designed for people like us," she said.

    Not designed for people like us.

    It was a comment about education, but it reflects a broader feeling that so many people today share - that the system just isn't working for them. And they're right. It's not.

    The system isn't working when a child in a crumbling school graduates without learning to read or doesn't graduate at all. Or when a young person at the top of her class - a young person with so much to offer this country - can't attend a public college.

    The system isn't working when Hispanics are losing their jobs faster than almost anybody else, or working jobs that pay less, and come with fewer benefits than almost anybody else.

    The system isn't working when 12 million people live in hiding, and hundreds of thousands cross our borders illegally each year; when companies hire undocumented immigrants instead of legal citizens to avoid paying overtime or to avoid a union; when communities are terrorized by ICE immigration raids - when nursing mothers are torn from their babies, when children come home from school to find their parents missing, when people are detained without access to legal counsel.

    When all that's happening, the system just isn't working, and it must be changed.

    And I know how frustrated many of you are right now. Your jobs are hard on a good day - and having a President who cuts your budgets doesn't help. Having a President who's torn gaping holes in the safety net for the people you serve doesn't help. Having a struggling economy - an economy that's left so many people in need of your assistance - that doesn't help either.

    I know that sometimes, you get tired. Sometimes, you start to lose heart. You start to feel like you're walking that long, hard road alone - like no one sees the sacrifices you make or appreciates the services you provide.

    But I know how hard you're working. I know the difference you're making in our communities. And I'm here today to make you this promise: I will be a President who stands with you, and fights for you, and walks with you every step of the way.

    Because here's something else I know: that when the system isn't working, people who love this country can come together to change it.

    That is the history of the Hispanic community in America. From fighting to desegregate our schools and neighborhoods, to organizing farmworkers, to standing up for the rights of immigrants, you've reminded us that those words about liberty and equality put to paper over 200 years ago mean something. And you've sought to remake this nation in the shape of those ideals.

    It's work that reflects the character of this community in which so many people have come here with so little, but had big dreams, big hearts, and a thirst to succeed. A willingness to struggle and sacrifice so the next generation doesn't have to. It's the same reason my own father came here from Kenya so many years ago - in the hope that here in America, you can make it if you try.

    For centuries, those values - hard work, patriotism, faith and family - the values that have made the Hispanic community strong - have made America strong too.

    That's what's at stake this November. This election is nothing less than a test of our allegiance to the American Dream. And it's a test of our commitment to all those who are counting on us to keep that Dream alive - the people you serve every day.

    The 12 million people in the shadows, the communities taking immigration enforcement into their own hands, the neighborhoods seeing rising tensions as citizens are pitted against new immigrants...they're counting on us to stop the hateful rhetoric filling our airwaves - rhetoric that poisons our political discourse, degrades our democracy, and has no place in this great nation. They're counting on us to rise above the fear and demagoguery, the pettiness and partisanship, and finally enact comprehensive immigration reform.

    Now, I know Senator McCain used to buck his party on immigration by fighting for comprehensive reform - and I admired him for it. But when he was running for his party's nomination, he abandoned his courageous stance, and said that he wouldn't even support his own legislation if it came up for a vote.

    Well, I don't know about you, but I think it's time for a President who won't walk away from something as important as comprehensive reform when it becomes politically unpopular. And that's the commitment I'm making to you. I marched with you in the streets of Chicago. I fought with you in the Senate for comprehensive immigration reform. And I will make it a top priority in my first year as President. Not just because we need to secure our borders and get control of who comes into our country. And not just because we have to crack down on employers abusing undocumented immigrants. But because we have to finally bring those 12 million people out of the shadows.

    Yes, they broke the law. And we should not excuse that. We should require them to pay a fine, learn English, and go to the back of the line for citizenship - behind those who came here legally. But we cannot - and should not - deport 12 million people. That would turn American into something we're not; something we don't want to be.

    While we work to strengthen our borders, we need a practical solution for the problem of 12 million people who are here without documentation - many of whom have lived and worked here for years. That's why we need to offer those who are willing to make amends a pathway to citizenship. That way, we can reconcile our values as both a nation of immigrants and a nation of laws.

    But there's much more to this election than resolving the status of undocumented immigrants.

    This election is also about the couple I met in North Las Vegas who saved up for decades only to be tricked into buying a home they couldn't afford; it's about the Latino families who are the first ones hurt by an economic downturn and the last ones helped by an economic upturn. They can't afford another four years of the Bush economic policies Senator McCain is offering - policies that give tax breaks to the biggest corporations and the wealthiest Americans, while doing little for struggling families who need help most.

    They're counting on us to restore fairness to our economy by giving tax relief to working families; by supporting our unions; by ending tax breaks for companies that ship jobs overseas and giving them to companies that create jobs here at home. They're counting on us to finally come together to solve this housing crisis that's devastating our communities. I especially want to commend NCLR for your leadership on this issue - for helping so many families avoid fraud and foreclosure. I think it's time you had a president who supported your work - and I intend to be that president.

    This election is also about the Latino students who are dropping out of school faster than nearly anyone else, and the children who attend overflowing classes in underfunded schools taught by teachers who aren't getting the support they need.

    They're counting on us to invest in early childhood education, stop leaving the money behind for No Child Left Behind, recruit an army of new teachers; and make college affordable for anyone who wants to go. Because that's how we'll give every American the skills to compete in the global economy, and all our children the chance to live out their dreams.

    This election is about working women who can't find affordable childcare or afterschool programs for their kids; women forced to lose their wages or quit their jobs to care for a newborn baby or an elderly parent.

    They're counting on us to help them make a living while raising their kids - to fight for equal pay for equal work, and for childcare, family leave and sick leave, because here in America, there should be no second class citizens in our workplaces.

    This election is about the veterans - including so many men and women from this community - who've served this country so bravely, but then come home to face new battles with the bureaucracy at the VA or the deplorable conditions at places like Fort Bragg and Walter Reed. And we've all walked by a veteran whose home is now a cardboard box on a street corner. It's a disgrace.

    These American heroes are counting on us to build a 21st century VA; to provide the benefits and health care they've earned, including mental health care; and to ensure that no one who has served this country ever has to sleep on the streets.

    This election is about the nearly one in three Hispanics who don't have health care - people for whom one accident, one illness can lead to financial ruin. And it's about the small business owners struggling to stay afloat because of the rising cost of insuring their employees. They're counting on us to fix our broken health care system.

    Here's Senator McCain's answer to our health care crisis: vote against expanding the Children's Health Insurance Program - a program that provides health care for millions of children in need. And propose a radical plan that would shred our current system of employer-based health care and tax individual workers for their health benefits for the first time in history. A plan that would be financed by a $3.6 trillion tax increase on the middle class - an increase of more than $1,000 for the typical family. Under the McCain plan, many Americans could lose the health care they have - and pay more in taxes for the health care they get.

    I have a very different answer to our health care crisis. I'll take on the drug and insurance companies, cut costs, guarantee health insurance for anyone who needs it and make it affordable for anyone who wants it.

    And today, I'm announcing my plan to provide real relief for small business owners crushed by rising costs, an idea championed by my friend Hillary Clinton, who's been leading the way in our battle to insure every American. It's a plan that would help more employers provide health benefits for their workers - instead of making it harder for them, as Senator McCain would do.

    We know that small businesses are the engines of economic prosperity in our communities - particularly Latino communities. And under my plan, if you're a small business that wants to provide health care to your employees, we'll give you a tax credit to make it affordable. My plan won't impose any new burdens on small businesses. Instead, we'll help them not just create new jobs, but good jobs - jobs with health care; jobs that stay right here in America; the kind of jobs we need in our communities.

    That's how we're going to change the system in this country.

    But I can't do this alone. So I'm here today to ask for your help.

    Make no mistake about it: the Latino community holds this election in your hands. Some of the closest contests this November will be in states like Florida, Colorado, Nevada and New Mexico - states with large Latino populations.

    And if you have any doubt about whether you can make a difference, just remember how, back in 2004, 40,000 registered Latino voters in New Mexico didn't turn out on election day. Senator Kerry lost that state by fewer than 6,000 votes. 6,000 votes. Today, in 2008, an estimated 170,000 Latinos in New Mexico aren't registered to vote.

    I know how powerful this community is. Just think how powerful you could be on November 4th if you translate your numbers into votes.

    And I'm not taking a single Latino vote for granted in this campaign. We're meeting with Latino leaders across the country. We're reaching out to Latino organizations to get input on my policy proposals. We've got a nationwide Hispanic media strategy. We're recruiting and training Latino organizers. We're holding Latino voter registration drives across America. And when I'm President, I'll be asking many of you to serve at every level of government.

    That's how we'll change the direction of this country - from the ground up, vote by vote, precinct by precinct, state by state. And I hope every single one of you will join us. I need your advice and expertise. I need you to organize people to knock on doors, make calls and register voters. I need you to talk to your friends and family, co-workers and neighbors, and make sure they cast their ballots on election day.

    We walked together on the streets of the South Side of Chicago. We walked together when I was a civil rights lawyer, registering Hispanic voters and giving Hispanics a greater voice in City Hall. We walked together in those marches for immigration reform. And if we get to the polls this November, we will walk together through those White House doors and into a new future for this country we all love.

    That's how we'll make the system work again for everyone. By living up to the ideals that this organization has always embodied - the ideals reflected in your name - La Raza, the people. I'm told that the original phrase was "La Raza Cosmica" - the cosmic people - a term big enough to embrace the rich tapestry of cultures, colors and faiths that make up the Hispanic community. Big enough to embrace the notion that we are all part of a greater community - that we all have a stake in each other; that I am my brother's keeper, I am my sister's keeper; and we rise and fall together as one people.

    So to that mother and all those who feel like the system just isn't made for people like you, I say this: that system and this country belong to every last one of us, black and white, Latino and Asian, rich and poor, gay and straight, young and old. And this November, we're going to come together to turn the page on the failed policies of the past. To bring new energy and new ideas to meet the challenges we face. And together, we won't just win an election - we will transform this nation.

    Thank you, and God bless you.


    Barack Obama, a Democratic Senator from Illinois, is the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee. [/QUOTE]

    The section that I want to highlight (which differened in it's actual delivery when compared to the pre-written speech above, is as follows:

    [QUOTE=B.H.Obama]The system isn't working when Hispanics are losing their jobs faster than almost anybody else, or working jobs that pay less, and come with fewer benefits than almost anybody else.

    The system isn't working when 12 million people live in hiding, and hundreds of thousands cross our borders illegally each year; when companies hire undocumented immigrants instead of legal citizens to avoid paying overtime or to avoid a union; when communities are terrorized by ICE immigration raids - when nursing mothers are torn from their babies, when children come home from school to find their parents missing, when people are detained without access to legal counsel.

    When all that's happening, the system just isn't working, and it must be changed.[/QUOTE]

    I'm losing my mind here. Obama blasts ICE (legal law enforcement) and us, America, and says not a word about the law breaking of illegal immigration, the criminal element coming accross the border such as MS13, or any of the issues at the core of illegal immigration.

    Instead it's our fault, and our law enforcement (ICE) is being spoekn about by him as if they were Nazi Jackboots, coming in the night to get poor innocent law abiding people and shunt them away in secret prisons to be killed.

    Someone please explain it to me, cause I'm at my wits end. Everywhere I look these days, here and elsewhere, I find my opinion on this and every other issue so counter to what you all seem to think.

    Am I that looney for wanting our immigration laws enforced? Am I really a hateful Nazi racist, as Obama seems to think ICE is? Why is deportation of illegals so wrong? They are not...here...legally. Not. So why then give them amnesty and rights and benefits? Why?

    He talks a great game about fines and english and "back of the line", but the truth behind his amnesty ideals are obvious.

    As an immigrant, I am not against immigration. I'm not, I just want it to be LEGAL and via the laws we, through our elected reps, have set. Is that so wrong? I'm all for revamping the system if it's broken (and it is), but why do we have to reward those who broke the law first, before we can fix it?

    I mean, do we want to live in a Nation without borders? Is it really a Nation anymore then? Is that what some want, no nation at all, come on in and take?

    I know what I'll hear "it's all the corporations fault". Same old song and dance, excuse illegals 100%, blame Americans first and ignore the issue.

    I'm really at a loss. I seem to be at a loss to understand this forums membership alot lately.
    Last edited by Warfish; 07-14-2008 at 07:02 PM.

  2. #2
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    I agree with you 100%, Warfish. What's even more pathetic is John McCain's historical stance on immigration, especially because he's from a border state.

    Face it, between these schmuckolas running for President, we're ****ed sideways.

  3. #3
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    And this part too:

    [QUOTE=B.H.Obama]That's how we'll make the system work again for everyone. By living up to the ideals that this organization has always embodied - the ideals reflected in your name - La Raza, the people.[/QUOTE]

    Bugs me. La Raza does not mean "The People". It means "The Race". Big difference in meaning and intent there.

    I'd cite Wikipedia on some of their more extreme positions and views re: race and racial supremacy, but it appears their page has been scrubbed clean at some point.

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2627067]The section that I want to highlight (which differened in it's actual delivery when compared to the pre-written speech above, is as follows:



    I'm losing my mind here. Obama blasts ICE (legal law enforcement) and us, America, and says not a word about the law breaking of illegal immigration, the criminal element coming accross the border such as MS13, or any of the issues at the core of illegal immigration.

    Instead it's our fault, and our law enforcement (ICE) is being spoekn about by him as if they were Nazi Jackboots, coming in the night to get poor innocent law abiding people and shunt them away in secret prisons to be killed.

    Someone please explain it to me, cause I'm at my wits end. Everywhere I look these days, here and elsewhere, I find my opinion on this and every other issue so counter to what you all seem to think.

    Am I that looney for wanting our immigration laws enforced? Am I really a hateful Nazi racist, as Obama seems to think ICE is? Why is deportation of illegals so wrong? They are not...here...legally. Not. So why then give them amnesty and rights and benefits? Why?

    He talks a great game about fines and english and "back of the line", but the truth behind his amnesty ideals are obvious.

    As an immigrant, I am not against immigration. I'm not, I just want it to be LEGAL and via the laws we, through our elected reps, have set. Is that so wrong? I'm all for revamping the system if it's broken (and it is), but why do we have to reward those who broke the law first, before we can fix it?

    I mean, do we want to live in a Nation without borders? Is it really a Nation anymore then? Is that what some want, no nation at all, come on in and take?

    I know what I'll hear "it's all the corporations fault". Same old song and dance, excuse illegals 100%, blame Americans first and ignore the issue.

    I'm really at a loss. I seem to be at a loss to understand this forums membership alot lately.[/QUOTE]
    I want to be clear that I am in no way excusing illegal immigrants for breaking the law.

    My step-father was a legal immigrant from England who has been a US Citizen longer than I have been alive and I think that if you're going to come here, you should absolutely do it legally.

    However, part of enforcement is to punish companies that hire illegals as they are a big part of the lure for these people to flood across our borders.

    But an even bigger part of the problem is that it is almost impossible to find and deport all of these people. The argument behind amnesty is that is is better to get the people already here on the path to citizenship and paying taxes and being members of our society than to spend the inordinate amount of money it would take to find them all and ship them back across the border.

    To a certain extent, the battle has already been lost. There are times, and I fear this is one, where we have to move forward rather than worrying about the mistakes of the past.

    We can have amnesty and also tighten our borders to prevent future illegals from coming here. The real solution to this problem will have to be a compromise.

    It sucks, but sadly, its reality.

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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2627070]I agree with you 100%, Warfish. What's even more pathetic is John McCain's historical stance on immigration, especially because he's from a border state.

    Face it, between these schmuckolas running for President, we're ****ed sideways.[/QUOTE]


    Agree, and agree with Warfish's post above, especially the attempt to make ICE look like terror inducing thugs. Hey, gotta pander to the largest minority group, right?

    I lose more faith in Obama everyday, which just reminds me that McCain is, IMO, Bush 2.0. I can't believe I'll be as unispired going to the polls in Nov as I was in '00 and '04. Just depressing.

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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2627070]I agree with you 100%, Warfish. What's even more pathetic is John McCain's historical stance on immigration, especially because he's from a border state.

    Face it, between these schmuckolas running for President, we're ****ed sideways.[/QUOTE]


    Yup. I'm a registered Republican, but I'm not voting this year. I can't get past McCain's stance on illegal immigration. I'd like to cast a vote but only if there were a none of the above option.

    On this topic, I finally had to forbid my wife from going to Home Depot by herself - the illegal's see a truck and they swarm around it trying to solicit work. A lot of them with beers in brown bags, pissing on the side of the building, etc. Just disgraceful it's gotten like this. ICE should go to every Home Depot with busses and start enforcing the law.

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    [QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2627080]We can have amnesty and also tighten our borders to prevent future illegals from coming here. The real solution to this problem will have to be a compromise. [/QUOTE]

    I was too young to remember first hand, but I believe we already did this in Reagan's Presidential term in the 80's?

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    Illegal Immigration - When were you legal?

    I do live in a border state, Arizona. What people don't see is that when people think of illegal immigration they look at the brown people. Which I am one of. I have had people come up to me and ask, DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH? HAHA. Yea I speak English and my ancestors were here before it was even America so who's the illegal.

    The point is, it is easier to point out the brown people than anyone else. I have had many Canadian and British friends here illegally but never get a second look because they are caucasin. They are here working a job, doing all the things that the brown people are doing but they go unnoticed.

    Now don't bring up the fact that they can speak English. I know tons of Mexicans who are here illegally who speak English better than all of us combined.

    And I want to say that Klecko has it right. If you are gonna punish the illegal immigrants for coming here to work. Then you better punish the American business owners who are hiring them. They are just as much at fault for hiring the illegals as the illegals are for being here.

    Just remember unless your name is Native American, your ancestors at one time were illegal immigrants, too.

    Have a great night.
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2627067]The section that I want to highlight (which differened in it's actual delivery when compared to the pre-written speech above, is as follows:



    I'm losing my mind here. Obama blasts ICE (legal law enforcement) and us, America, and says not a word about the law breaking of illegal immigration, the criminal element coming accross the border such as MS13, or any of the issues at the core of illegal immigration.

    Instead it's our fault, and our law enforcement (ICE) is being spoekn about by him as if they were Nazi Jackboots, coming in the night to get poor innocent law abiding people and shunt them away in secret prisons to be killed.

    Someone please explain it to me, cause I'm at my wits end. Everywhere I look these days, here and elsewhere, I find my opinion on this and every other issue so counter to what you all seem to think.

    Am I that looney for wanting our immigration laws enforced? Am I really a hateful Nazi racist, as Obama seems to think ICE is? Why is deportation of illegals so wrong? They are not...here...legally. Not. So why then give them amnesty and rights and benefits? Why?

    He talks a great game about fines and english and "back of the line", but the truth behind his amnesty ideals are obvious.

    As an immigrant, I am not against immigration. I'm not, I just want it to be LEGAL and via the laws we, through our elected reps, have set. Is that so wrong? I'm all for revamping the system if it's broken (and it is), but why do we have to reward those who broke the law first, before we can fix it?

    I mean, do we want to live in a Nation without borders? Is it really a Nation anymore then? Is that what some want, no nation at all, come on in and take?

    I know what I'll hear "it's all the corporations fault". Same old song and dance, excuse illegals 100%, blame Americans first and ignore the issue.

    I'm really at a loss. I seem to be at a loss to understand this forums membership alot lately.[/QUOTE]

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    [QUOTE=ArizonaJetsFan;2627097]I do live in a border state, Arizona. What people don't see is that when people think of illegal immigration they look at the brown people. Which I am one of. I have had people come up to me and ask, DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH? HAHA. Yea I speak English and my ancestors were here before it was even America so who's the illegal.

    The point is, it is easier to point out the brown people than anyone else. I have had many Canadian and British friends here illegally but never get a second look because they are caucasin. They are here working a job, doing all the things that the brown people are doing but they go unnoticed.

    Now don't bring up the fact that they can speak English. I know tons of Mexicans who are here illegally who speak English better than all of us combined.

    And I want to say that Klecko has it right. If you are gonna punish the illegal immigrants for coming here to work. Then you better punish the American business owners who are hiring them. They are just as much at fault for hiring the illegals as the illegals are for being here.

    Just remember unless your name is Native American, your ancestors at one time were illegal immigrants, too.

    Have a great night.[/QUOTE]

    That's not entirely true. Most of our ancestors were LEGAL immigrants.

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    It's pandering for votes. Pandering for votes equates to "I'll change my view at any given moment."

    There are alot of people who feel like you Warfish. If you crossed the border illegally you broke the law.
    The waters become muddy when the government collects taxes (IRS individual tax numbers) from illegals. Also when you have companies hiring illegals or homeowners employing illegals at low wages.

    People can't have it both ways.
    State what the law is and follow through with punishment.
    If someone hires an illegal and it's considered to be breaking the law, that law should enforced. If the government wants to collect revenue from illegals them make them legal.

    By politicians pandering and the laws being subverted, it becomes a haven for frustration, anger and resentment.

  11. #11
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    I know tons of Mexicans who are here illegally who speak English better than all of us combined.

    And I want to say that Klecko has it right. If you are gonna punish the illegal immigrants for coming here to work. Then you better punish the American business owners who are hiring them. They are just as much at fault for hiring the illegals as the illegals are for being here.

    Just remember unless your name is Native American, your ancestors at one time were illegal immigrants, too.

    ***********

    heap big laughs here-no wonder I have reservations about folks like this

    i'd bet anything Arizona iced tea is more Arizonan than this one

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    Born And Raised In Arizona

    YEA YEA. Born and Raised in Arizona. Arizona is a great state, if we can just keep all those mid westerners and northeasterners outta here it would be great. HAHAHA oh I forgot to keep the Californians out too.

    Well Klecko, if you look at it, even the pilgrims were illegal. But like in everything else the victors write the history books.

    I do agree we cant just let in everyone, but we do need to let in those immigrants who will help our society. Just imagine if we had kept all immigrants out. Look what we would have missed. Immigrants do play an important part in our society, and I agree they should be here legally.

    As for flushing, that is the attitude that makes Americans look ignorant. You didnt like what i said so you just trashed my quote. If you dont agree then say so. Thats what makes America great. But when you dont agree, dont trash it.

    Have a great night.

    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2627131]I know tons of Mexicans who are here illegally who speak English better than all of us combined.

    And I want to say that Klecko has it right. If you are gonna punish the illegal immigrants for coming here to work. Then you better punish the American business owners who are hiring them. They are just as much at fault for hiring the illegals as the illegals are for being here.

    Just remember unless your name is Native American, your ancestors at one time were illegal immigrants, too.

    ***********

    heap big laughs here-no wonder I have reservations about folks like this

    i'd bet anything Arizona iced tea is more Arizonan than this one[/QUOTE]

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    Yes Barack "the system is broken" IN MEXICO get you narrow hipped ass down there and tell THEM to fix it! (That includes Mccain too) La Raza (THE race) needs to race back across the border and get the hell out of my country, all they do is complain about how horrible it is here, the people, the govt. ect. And to you libs, don't tell me they were here fisrt or any of that b.s. even if they had AZ, TX and CA all that would do is make those 3 states third world crap-holes like Mexico is and Califorina is becoming. 30% of U.S. prison population is illegal. so they all ain't coming here to work.Free meds, free school, free lunch, free W.I.C. and they ***** about MY country? Don't like it here?, don't like our people? LEAVE PLEASE no hard feeling.

  14. #14
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    I don't know if I would call it pandering, simply because I believe Obama has held this position all along, and to me, pandering is changing your talking points in regards to who you are speaking to.

    Although, I thought Obama voted in favor of the border fence yet also has claimed that trying to round up all the illegals as impractical.

    here are some quotes from Obama on immigration;

    [url]http://www.ontheissues.org/International/Barack_Obama_Immigration.htm[/url]

    and a synopsis of his stance on immigration;

    [url]http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Barack_Obama.htm#Immigration[/url]

    I think Klecko is right, it just is not feasible to evict every single illegal immigrant from this country. It is too big of a task...

    we have to figure out two things....how do we get the illegals to come out of hiding on their own and how to we secure our borders in order to control the border hopping.

    It is very easy to blame the illegals, but seriously, if it were you or me, and this was the only way to make money to support your family, we would do the same thing.

    The percentage of illegals who are criminals (not including their status) is not a significant enough number to consider when talking about all of them here as a whole.

    It is a red herring talking point.

    WHo knows if any of this can really happen, but here is my suggestion;

    There has to be some real serious consequences for hiring illegals....as always, you can't stop the water if you don't turn off the faucet. If there are jobs, they will keep coming, no matter what.

    There probably has to be some sort of expedited path to citizenship for those honest hard working illegals. Implement some sort of fine that can be taken out of their pay check, say for a five or ten year period, or, if they don't work, have them perform community service.

    We need to deport all illegals that get arrested and convicted of committing any crime, which can be in addition to jail sentencing.

    We must figure out how to beef up our border security, be it a wall or technological surveillance, whatever has to be done to clearly and distinctly protect our borders.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2627067]The section that I want to highlight (which differened in it's actual delivery when compared to the pre-written speech above, is as follows:



    I'm losing my mind here. Obama blasts ICE (legal law enforcement) and us, America, and says not a word about the law breaking of illegal immigration, the criminal element coming accross the border such as MS13, or any of the issues at the core of illegal immigration.

    Instead it's our fault, and our law enforcement (ICE) is being spoekn about by him as if they were Nazi Jackboots, coming in the night to get poor innocent law abiding people and shunt them away in secret prisons to be killed.

    Someone please explain it to me, cause I'm at my wits end. Everywhere I look these days, here and elsewhere, I find my opinion on this and every other issue so counter to what you all seem to think.

    Am I that looney for wanting our immigration laws enforced? Am I really a hateful Nazi racist, as Obama seems to think ICE is? Why is deportation of illegals so wrong? They are not...here...legally. Not. So why then give them amnesty and rights and benefits? Why?

    He talks a great game about fines and english and "back of the line", but the truth behind his amnesty ideals are obvious.

    As an immigrant, I am not against immigration. I'm not, I just want it to be LEGAL and via the laws we, through our elected reps, have set. Is that so wrong? I'm all for revamping the system if it's broken (and it is), but why do we have to reward those who broke the law first, before we can fix it?

    I mean, do we want to live in a Nation without borders? Is it really a Nation anymore then? Is that what some want, no nation at all, come on in and take?

    I know what I'll hear "it's all the corporations fault". Same old song and dance, excuse illegals 100%, blame Americans first and ignore the issue.

    I'm really at a loss. I seem to be at a loss to understand this forums membership alot lately.[/QUOTE]

    When a millon (ONE MILLION) ILLEGAL immigrants can demonstrate in one place in California and nobody throws a freakin net on them, we are in BIG trouble....My Grandparents came here from Italy, through Ellis island, were called "guineas" and WOP's, had to battle the Irish and the discrimination of the times and had no help from anyone....My father is one of six children (He's pushing 80 now) who was told by his parents they were Americans and would not speak Italian, but Engish only....There were no shortcuts or handouts....They had to fight for EVERYTHING they had....Why should it be different now?....My heart does not bleed for these people....Come here legally, learn to speak the language, respect the sacred ground of America OR GET THE #%$! OUT!

    And no WAR, you not looney, you are dead on with this thread.
    Last edited by crazyeffinjetsfan; 07-14-2008 at 08:27 PM.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=piney;2627163]I don't know if I would call it pandering, simply because I believe Obama has held this position all along, and to me, pandering is changing your talking points in regards to who you are speaking to.

    Although, I thought Obama voted in favor of the border fence yet also has claimed that trying to round up all the illegals as impractical.

    here are some quotes from Obama on immigration;

    [url]http://www.ontheissues.org/International/Barack_Obama_Immigration.htm[/url]

    and a synopsis of his stance on immigration;

    [url]http://www.ontheissues.org/senate/Barack_Obama.htm#Immigration[/url]

    I think Klecko is right, it just is not feasible to evict every single illegal immigrant from this country. It is too big of a task...

    we have to figure out two things....how do we get the illegals to come out of hiding on their own and how to we secure our borders in order to control the border hopping.

    It is very easy to blame the illegals, but seriously, if it were you or me, and this was the only way to make money to support your family, we would do the same thing.

    The percentage of illegals who are criminals (not including their status) is not a significant enough number to consider when talking about all of them here as a whole.

    It is a red herring talking point.

    WHo knows if any of this can really happen, but here is my suggestion;

    There has to be some real serious consequences for hiring illegals....as always, you can't stop the water if you don't turn off the faucet. If there are jobs, they will keep coming, no matter what.

    There probably has to be some sort of expedited path to citizenship for those honest hard working illegals. Implement some sort of fine that can be taken out of their pay check, say for a five or ten year period, or, if they don't work, have them perform community service.

    We need to deport all illegals that get arrested and convicted of committing any crime, which can be in addition to jail sentencing.

    We must figure out how to beef up our border security, be it a wall or technological surveillance, whatever has to be done to clearly and distinctly protect our borders.[/QUOTE]
    A third of our prison population is not enough to be concerned about? States like AZ, CA, NM, and here in TEXAS its much higher. This is to the point of ridiculous. 50% of traffic accidents here in Houston involve uninsured motorists, and a majority of those are illegals with whom you end up having no recourse, This is out of control and neither one of the two Bozo's(sorry r.i.p.) running for potus is going to do anything about it. Oh, and you think its only 12 million 20 is probably closer.

  17. #17
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    yeah, la raza is awesome. "For The Race everything. Outside The Race, nothing." Wonderful slogan.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=sunmou;2627182]yeah, la raza is awesome. "For The Race everything. Outside The Race, nothing." Wonderful slogan.[/QUOTE]

    THEY have a RIGHT to be racist and bigoted,I am SHOCKED you didn't know this.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=crazyeffinjetsfan;2627174]When a millon (ONE MILLION) ILLEGAL immigrants can demonstrate in one place in California and nobody throws a freakin net on them, we are in BIG trouble....My Grandparents came here from Italy, through Ellis island, were called "guineas" and WOP's, had to battle the Irish and the discrimination of the times and had no help from anyone....My father is one of six children (He's pushing 80 now) who was told by his parents they were Americans and would not speak Italian, but Engish only....There were no shortcuts or handouts....They had to fight for EVERYTHING they had....Why should it be different now?....My heart does not bleed for these people....Come here legally, learn to speak the language, respect the sacred ground of America OR GET THE #%$! OUT!

    And no WAR, you not looney, you are dead on with this thread.[/QUOTE]

    man, this may be the biggest myth of all....and I am not talking about your personal family history, just the theory that the european immigrants who came here during the 1800's were all legal coming through Ellis Island, and that none of them ever received help from the government...

    This is a canard, the Irish, Russian, Italian, and Polish who came here (among others) were both illegal and legal, and they didn't all scratch and claw and earn everything on their own.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=acepepe;2627179]A third of our prison population is not enough to be concerned about? States like AZ, CA, NM, and here in TEXAS its much higher. This is to the point of ridiculous. 50% of traffic accidents here in Houston involve uninsured motorists, and a majority of those are illegals with whom you end up having no recourse, This is out of control and neither one of the two Bozo's(sorry r.i.p.) running for potus is going to do anything about it. Oh, and you think its only 12 million 20 is probably closer.[/QUOTE]

    c'mon, if you are going to make up numbers, then how can we have a serious conversation..

    and you are going to assume the entire country matches the demographic of the border states?

    Really?

    So, the same percentage of illegals in a Houston prison are equal to that of a prison in Iowa? Or Minnesota?

    I mean, I know if you are in Texas it may seem like they are running wild all over the country.....but compared to our countries population....not so much....

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