View Poll Results: Survey of Politics board. Thanks

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  • upper middle class (or rich) - independent

    8 9.30%
  • upper middle class (or rich) - republican

    9 10.47%
  • upper middle class (or rich) - democrat

    19 22.09%
  • middle middle class - independent

    13 15.12%
  • middle middle class - republican

    14 16.28%
  • middle middle class - democrat

    8 9.30%
  • lower middle class - independent

    3 3.49%
  • lower middle class - republican

    2 2.33%
  • lower middle class - democrat

    8 9.30%
  • non tax payer, off the books worker, illegal worker

    2 2.33%
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Thread: What geopolitical group are you in? (take survey)

  1. #21
    [QUOTE=Traitor Jay & the Woodies;2630807]if that's your definition of "rich" i'd like to know why I don't live in a mansion.
    [/QUOTE]

    It's what the IRS says.

    Upper middle class people are often dead broke because they are so fully extended paying for this n that. Sometimes lower middle class actually have more $$$ in the bank.

    If you are in fact a millionaire, youre paying 41-50% of what you aearn in taxes, so, thats your answer right there.

  2. #22
    [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2630377]What would a fireman AND a school teacher make TOGETHER.

    [/QUOTE]

    That might be the dumbest question I ever heard. But, at least youre enjoying the summer :D

  3. #23
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    I don't see a choice for porn-loving anarchist entrepenuer... :mad:

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=Traitor Jay & the Woodies;2630807]if that's your definition of "rich" i'd like to know why I don't live in a mansion.

    please advise.[/QUOTE]

    200+/year puts in the top 3% of earners in the US. Being in the top 3% makes you rich. Sorry.

    You don't have a mansion because you have obviously made some poor financial decisions. Here is a link:

    [url]http://www.edwardjones.com/en_US/index.html[/url]


    ;)

  5. #25
    I am the one illegal and I want your job you steeenking gringo

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=Schroy48;2631015]If you are in fact a millionaire, youre paying 41-50% of what you aearn in taxes, so, thats your answer right there.[/QUOTE]

    FYI if you're a millionaire, you don't pay even CLOSE to 41% let alone 50% in taxes on what you earn, and if you are you need to stop using turbotax or whatever and get yourself a real accountant. Who do you think all those loopholes are meant for?!?

  7. #27
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    or you could just have UBS help you out

    [URL]http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5394214&page=1[/URL]

    a rich legacy of secrecy - from hoarding heisted holocaust victims riches to tax evading

    financial help from soup to nazis

  8. #28
    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2631764]FYI if you're a millionaire, you don't pay even CLOSE to 41% let alone 50% in taxes on what you earn, and if you are you need to stop using turbotax or whatever and get yourself a real accountant. Who do you think all those loopholes are meant for?!?[/QUOTE]

    Most millionaires in this country become them by saving and investing over time. Families making in the 200 to 250 range who are considered rich many of whom have assets of over a million or two are probably paying closer to 55% in taxes. If you live on either coast in an area with good schools chances are good that on a decent house you are paying close to $20,000 in real estate taxes which on a 200K salary is 10%. Another 30 plus in Fed, 6 to 8 in State plus sales taxes and cap gains taxes, Government fees attached to drivers liscense, pass ports, phone service and airline tickets plus SS and Fica and your in at least half for the government.

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2631592]200+/year puts in the top 3% of earners in the US. Being in the top 3% makes you rich. Sorry.

    You don't have a mansion because you have obviously made some poor financial decisions. Here is a link:

    [url]http://www.edwardjones.com/en_US/index.html[/url]


    ;)[/QUOTE]


    i wish that were the case. it at least it would be a good reason...

  10. #30
    [QUOTE=Schroy48;2630241]I think we need to set some sort of foundation here in order to discuss politics.

    If this board has a "majority" I'd like to know what it is.

    Thanks for taking the poll![/QUOTE]

    somehow, i seriously doubt a few dozen responses -- many of whom likely weren't honest with themselves -- is a very representative sample size...

    i put no stock into the results... sorry.

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2631941]Most millionaires in this country become them by saving and investing over time. Families making in the 200 to 250 range who are considered rich many of whom have assets of over a million or two are probably paying closer to 55% in taxes. If you live on either coast in an area with good schools chances are good that on a decent house you are paying close to $20,000 in real estate taxes which on a 200K salary is 10%. Another 30 plus in Fed, 6 to 8 in State plus sales taxes and cap gains taxes, Government fees attached to drivers liscense, pass ports, phone service and airline tickets plus SS and Fica and your in at least half for the government.[/QUOTE]

    we weren't adding in taxes on everything we pay.. as he was talking about the IRS, no?


    And besides, I am basically in the category you describe, I live in Jersey in a great school district and my prop taxes are < 10k with > .5 acre on a cul-de-sac in a nice neighborhood with 4br,3ba (and don't forget, you write that off your Federal taxes anyways). If you add in fed tax (definitely < 30%... people need to find better accountants), state tax, sales tax is minimal as I buy everything online for the most part (clothes, car/race parts, home improvement items, both my Bimmers even! etc), fees are minimal, phone taxes barely add up to anything, cap gains is low (thanks Bush, but I'd rather have less or no deficit), SS and FICA (I'll assume you just meant FICA as it encompasses SS & Med) is not bad as SS caps early and Med is a low 1.35%... no way in hell it gets even TO 50% let alone above it
    Last edited by King Ryan; 07-18-2008 at 09:31 AM.

  12. #32
    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2633922]we weren't adding in taxes on everything we pay.. as he was talking about the IRS, no?


    And besides, I am basically in the category you describe, I live in Jersey in a great school district and my prop taxes are < 10k with > .5 acre on a cul-de-sac in a nice neighborhood with 4br,3ba (and don't forget, you write that off your Federal taxes anyways). If you add in fed tax (definitely < 30%... people need to find better accountants), state tax, sales tax is minimal as I buy everything online for the most part (clothes, car/race parts, home improvement items, both my Bimmers even! etc), fees are minimal, phone taxes barely add up to anything, cap gains is low (thanks Bush, but I'd rather have less or no deficit), SS and FICA (I'll assume you just meant FICA as it encompasses SS & Med) is not bad as SS caps early and Med is a low 1.35%... no way in hell it gets even TO 50% let alone above it[/QUOTE]

    I'm in the same catagory in CT and my taxes if you include everything is well over 50%. My taxes on my phone bill is $324 a year. I fly a lot there are all kinds of fees on plane tickets. I pay property tax on my cars in CT.

    I just ordered software on line and I was charged sales tax.

    I'm self employeed and so is my wife we pay for the employer and employee portion of FICA. That employer portion that you don't pay you are paying for indirectly.

    My real estate taxes are higher than yours and I don't get city water, city garbage collection, we have a volunteer fire department and I don't have sewers. Almost every dime goes to the school sytem out of my real estate taxes. We also pay annual property tax on cars here.

    The other nasty thing that happens every year is AMT and than of course if you happened to save for your future and invest in mutual funds they report Cap Gains whether you sold anything or not. That money which was origianally taxed as income that went into savings now is being taxed again. If you don't have the earnings to pay for the cap gain in those mutual funds that you didn't redeem, you have to sell assets or come up with additional savings to pay it. If you have to sell to pay cap gains on savings you get taxed again if you had any gain the next year.

    Net Net on the adjusted income we are paying 50% in Fed and State and and additional 10% in sales taxes, realesate and fees.

    The sheltered income that goes into retirnement plans will be taxed later as it's withdrawn or after it's left in an estate. I don't know what a good accountant can do other than advise you to take all of your deductions and put as much money as possible into self directed retirnment plans but the idea that you aren't going to pay tax on that money is a foolish one because of course you are either in life when it's redeemed or in death as estate taxes.

    I really am not opposed to paying more taxes if that tax money was being invested in community projects that had a return. The reality is most of my tax money is going to government give away programs that have no long term return and the debt is being squandered. I simply don't believe increasing my taxes will bring the debt down one dime. The only way to substantially increase tax revenue is to increase the growth of the economy. Tax revenue can't be predicted only spending can be. There is no way we are going to reduce spending with either a Democratic or Republican administration. The only way is throug a highly divided government that won't allow either side to get an edge and is so full of hate and venom they won't compromise to get their own earmarks through.
    Last edited by Winstonbiggs; 07-18-2008 at 10:50 AM.

  13. #33
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    middle middle indy.

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2634001]I'm in the same catagory in CT and my taxes if you include everything is well over 50%. My taxes on my phone bill is $324 a year. I fly a lot there are all kinds of fees on plane tickets. I pay property tax on my cars in CT.

    I just ordered software on line and I was charged sales tax.

    I'm self employeed and so is my wife we pay for the employer and employee portion of FICA. That employer portion that you don't pay you are paying for indirectly.

    My real estate taxes are higher than yours and I don't get city water, city garbage collection, we have a volunteer fire department and I don't have sewers. Almost every dime goes to the school sytem out of my real estate taxes. We also pay annual property tax on cars here.

    The other nasty thing that happens every year is AMT and than of course if you happened to save for your future and invest in mutual funds they report Cap Gains whether you sold anything or not. That money which was origianally taxed as income that went into savings now is being taxed again. If you don't have the earnings to pay for the cap gain in those mutual funds that you didn't redeem, you have to sell assets or come up with additional savings to pay it. If you have to sell to pay cap gains on savings you get taxed again if you had any gain the next year.

    Net Net on the adjusted income we are paying 50% in Fed and State and and additional 10% in sales taxes, realesate and fees.

    The sheltered income that goes into retirnement plans will be taxed later as it's withdrawn or after it's left in an estate. I don't know what a good accountant can do other than advise you to take all of your deductions and put as much money as possible into self directed retirnment plans but the idea that you aren't going to pay tax on that money is a foolish one because of course you are either in life when it's redeemed or in death as estate taxes.

    I really am not opposed to paying more taxes if that tax money was being invested in community projects that had a return. The reality is most of my tax money is going to government give away programs that have no long term return and the debt is being squandered. I simply don't believe increasing my taxes will bring the debt down one dime. The only way to substantially increase tax revenue is to increase the growth of the economy. Tax revenue can't be predicted only spending can be. There is no way we are going to reduce spending with either a Democratic or Republican administration. The only way is throug a highly divided government that won't allow either side to get an edge and is so full of hate and venom they won't compromise to get their own earmarks through.[/QUOTE]

    it seems to me that your anecdotal case is too specific and not representative of the majority of people in the range we are talking about, do you disagree?

  15. #35
    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2634471]it seems to me that your anecdotal case is too specific and not representative of the majority of people in the range we are talking about, do you disagree?[/QUOTE]

    Not really because most high wage earners live in high tax high property tax states that also have high sales taxes and high state income taxes.

    I think your point is on gross income you don't pay over 50% but my point is on adjusted you are and the fact is most deductions people have are either for dependents, mortage interest or retirenment accounts either 403B, 401K, self directed or IRA's. These accounts will be taxed so to say the gross is less than 50% and not the adjusted gross it's still money that can't be used and once it is it's either taxed or if you need it early taxed with a penalty.

    More to the point do you think you aren't being taxed enough? And do you really believe if you were taxed at a higher rate the deficiet would be less?

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2634574]Not really because most high wage earners live in high tax high property tax states that also have high sales taxes and high state income taxes.

    I think your point is on gross income you don't pay over 50% but my point is on adjusted you are and the fact is most deductions people have are either for dependents, mortage interest or retirenment accounts either 403B, 401K, self directed or IRA's. These accounts will be taxed so to say the gross is less than 50% and not the adjusted gross it's still money that can't be used and once it is it's either taxed or if you need it early taxed with a penalty.[/QUOTE]

    please don't talk about 401k or IRAs (or my wife's 403b for that matter) right now, that subject is taboo for the next couple of years me thinks. But now that you mentioned it, I never considered the future taxation of it in the context of part of current contributions... interesting point of view.

    but to be more specific, I was more referring to anecdotes like this:

    "I'm self employeed and so is my wife we pay for the employer and employee portion of FICA. That employer portion that you don't pay you are paying for indirectly."

    "I don't get city water, city garbage collection, we have a volunteer fire department and I don't have sewers" (except for the fire dept part)

    plus car tax and even your phone bill taxes seem high (business line(s)?)



    those seem out of norm to me, and I've lived in both NJ and Fairfield cty CT... where in CT are you btw, I was in Trumbull

  17. #37
    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2634593]please don't talk about 401k or IRAs (or my wife's 403b for that matter) right now, that subject is taboo for the next couple of years me thinks. But now that you mentioned it, I never considered the future taxation of it in the context of part of current contributions... interesting point of view.

    but to be more specific, I was more referring to anecdotes like this:

    "I'm self employeed and so is my wife we pay for the employer and employee portion of FICA. That employer portion that you don't pay you are paying for indirectly."

    "I don't get city water, city garbage collection, we have a volunteer fire department and I don't have sewers" (except for the fire dept part)

    plus car tax and even your phone bill taxes seem high (business line(s)?)



    those seem out of norm to me, and I've lived in both NJ and Fairfield cty CT... where in CT are you btw, I was in Trumbull[/QUOTE]

    I live in Stamford Near the Bedford Border.

    I just happened to look at my phone bills and yea I have about 25.00 of Federal and State charges on my 3 land lines and another 8 on my cell lines. My plane tickets have all these wonderful things on them, it all adds up. I don't think most people are even aware of how nickled and dimed we are in little fees by our local, State and Federal government.

    My feelings about taxes have always been it's a priveledge to live here and I'm fortunate that the government stays out of my way for the most part as long as they get their cut. I just no longer believe that either party stands for anything beyond paying off their own constituents and the idea that an increase in taxes is going to somehow help the country I just don't buy into anymore.

    The Republicans raided the hen house when they controlled all three branches and the Democrats are going to do the same thing after they win the White House and extend their margins in both houses. I really fear that what we saw in the first 6 years of the Bush administration is going to be worse in terms of responsible governance when the Dems get full control. You can already see how irresponsible this Congress has been just to extend their power in the next election cycle.

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2634636]I live in Stamford Near the Bedford Border.[/QUOTE]

    nice area :)


    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2634636]I just happened to look at my phone bills and yea I have about 25.00 of Federal and State charges on my 3 land lines and another 8 on my cell lines. My plane tickets have all these wonderful things on them, it all adds up. I don't think most people are even aware of how nickled and dimed we are in little fees by our local, State and Federal government. /QUOTE]

    yeah multiple lines, I see. I know all about the plane tickets, we travel a lot (another reason I wanted to work from home to offset my carbon footprint with all our travelling).

    in fact we just booked 2 weeks in Italy & Croatia for her cousin's wedding (in Bitonto which is in Puglia, the heel of the boot, and by the name, where our friend Bitonti's relatives hale from) and then over to Croatia to stay on the island my father is from with his cousins and fish, relax and sight-see plus visit with relatives... super psyched, it's been a year since Italy but a long time since I was in Croatia!


    As for the local & state fees, sure Bush cut income and cap gains tax (minimally for most people), but at the same time lowered aid to states, so local & state taxes went up to compensate so really all that happened was a shift from paying taxes to the federal government to the state government (which one could argue is a good think since the federal gov't sucks with money anyways, but then some of us live in NJ so we are effed either way), plus the unfortunate side effect of increased deficits and national debt


    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2634636]My feelings about taxes have always been it's a priveledge to live here and I'm fortunate that the government stays out of my way for the most part as long as they get their cut. I just no longer believe that either party stands for anything beyond paying off their own constituents and the idea that an increase in taxes is going to somehow help the country I just don't buy into anymore. [/QUOTE]

    I agree 100% until the second half of the last sentence, but you sound a little like Chad ("privileged") and a lot of people around here are rabidly against him so watch out! ;)



    [quote=Wistonbiggs;2634636]The Republicans raided the hen house when they controlled all three branches and the Democrats are going to do the same thing after they win the White House and extend their margins in both houses. I really fear that what we saw in the first 6 years of the Bush administration is going to be worse in terms of responsible governance when the Dems get full control. You can already see how irresponsible this Congress has been just to extend their power in the next election cycle.[/quote]

    There is no way in hell they could be more inept or irresponsible than those 6 years under the GOP... can they come close, yeah... but equal or worse, no way. That would be like winning the powerball 3 times by yourself in a row when jackpot is > 500 million with the same numbers and you not being a character on Lost 2... so it's save to say things will get better (marginally... whoop-de-lucky-effing-us-doo)

  19. #39
    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2634658]
    in fact we just booked 2 weeks in Italy & Croatia for her cousin's wedding (in Bitonto which is in Puglia, the heel of the boot, and by the name, where our friend Bitonti's relatives hale from) and then over to Croatia to stay on the island my father is from with his cousins and fish, relax and sight-see plus visit with relatives... super psyched, it's been a year since Italy but a long time since I was in Croatia!


    [/QUOTE]

    That sounds like an awesome trip. My mother's family is from Puglia, in fact he maiden name is derived from that name.

    Croatia should be awesome, and you can get an official jersey while you're there.

  20. #40
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2634714]That sounds like an awesome trip. My mother's family is from Puglia, in fact he maiden name is derived from that name.

    Croatia should be awesome, and you can get an official jersey while you're there.[/QUOTE]


    thanks Paulie! I can even one up the official jersey bit... I will be getting to Croatia the day they play England in Zagreb (the capital). I wasn't planning on going there, but there are still tickets available so I am definitely considering swinging up that way from the coast as that is a rare opportunity!!!


    have you even been to Puglia? last year was my first time, and it was my favorite part of the 3 week trip (included Ravenna - beach town on Adriatic, Matera - The Passion was filmed there, Venice, Florence / Siena / Tuscany, Rome and the surrounding area), so you know it's nice. I like off the beaten path stuff a lot, and staying with her relatives (which we did in Florence & outside of Rome and Ravenna as well) made it even better to truly experience life in Italy. If you haven't gone, and you ever do, hit me up for some tips as I had a lot of great experiences and toured around a lot of Puglia

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