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Thread: Michael Yon: The Iraq War is Over and We Won

  1. #1

    Michael Yon: The Iraq War is Over and We Won

    [QUOTE]
    The war continues to abate in Iraq. Violence is still present, but, of course, Iraq was a relatively violent place long before Coalition forces moved in. I would go so far as to say that barring any major and unexpected developments (like an Israeli air strike on Iran and the retaliations that would follow), a fair-minded person could say with reasonable certainty that the war has ended. A new and better nation is growing legs. What's left is messy politics that likely will be punctuated by low-level violence and the occasional spectacular attack. Yet, the will of the Iraqi people has changed, and the Iraqi military has dramatically improved, so those spectacular attacks are diminishing along with the regular violence. Now it's time to rebuild the country, and create a pluralistic, stable and peaceful Iraq. That will be long, hard work. But by my estimation, the Iraq War is over. We won. Which means the Iraqi people won.

    I wish I could say the same for Afghanistan. But that war we clearly are losing: I am preparing to go there and see the situation for myself. My friends and contacts who have a good understanding of Afghanistan are, to a man, pessimistic about the current situation. Interestingly, however, every one of them believes that Afghanistan can be turned into a success. They all say we need to change our approach, but in the long-term Afghanistan can stand on its own. The sources range from four-stars to civilians from the United States, Great Britain and other places. A couple years ago, some of these sources believed that defeat was imminent in Iraq. They were nearly right about Iraq, although some of them knew far less about Iraq than they do about Afghanistan. But it's clear that hard days are ahead in Afghanistan. We just lost nine of our soldiers in a single firefight, where the enemy entered a base and nearly overran it.

    The news from Afghanistan is reason for pessimism. For some more optimistic news, [URL="http://www.jetsinsider.com/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_download&gid=7&Itemid="][COLOR=#0000ff]please look at these statistics from Iraq[/COLOR][/URL], and remember that if we could turn things around in that country, we might be able to do the same in Afghanistan.
    [/QUOTE]

    [URL]http://www.michaelyon-online.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1690:success-in-iraq&catid=34:dispatches&Itemid=55#yvComment[/URL]

    And before anyone starts claiming Yon is an administration shill, hopeless optimist, or just way off base, you may want to read up on some of his earlier evaluations.

    Like this one, where he was one of the first to call what was going on in Iraq a civil war [URL]http://michaelyon-online.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63:seven-days-to-forever&catid=61:archive-2005&Itemid=106[/URL]

  2. #2
    We lost in Iraq, right? I read about it many, many times on JI. Even heard Senator Reid declare it, breathlessly. (And I never had an iota of difficulty figuring who "Rat-Wing" references).

  3. #3
    if one subscribes to arbitrarily defined victory conditions then yes we win every war we ever started

    the way i see it we never formally declared war, this isn't a war it's a police action. you can't win a police action.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=doggin94it;2639585][URL]http://www.michaelyon-online.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1690:success-in-iraq&catid=34:dispatches&Itemid=55#yvComment[/URL]

    And before anyone starts claiming Yon is an administration shill, hopeless optimist, or just way off base, you may want to read up on some of his earlier evaluations.

    Like this one, where he was one of the first to call what was going on in Iraq a civil war [URL]http://michaelyon-online.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=63:seven-days-to-forever&catid=61:archive-2005&Itemid=106[/URL][/QUOTE]

    Stability and achieving peace in Iraq was not the goal of the invasion. Creating a nation that sees our enemies in Iran as a friend/allie is not my idea of creating "a better nation". Creating a nation that now for the first time in 40+ years has established a legal code that may not be in conflict with Islamic Law is not my idea of a better nation. Creating a nation that forced a sizeable chunk of its population to leave is not my idea of a better nation. A country where women have fewer legal rights than they did under Saddam is not a better nation. A nation which has the biggest refugee crisis in the world today cant be considered a better nation.

    Sorry but i dont agree with this at all. Yes there is more stability and less violence (400+ Iraqi civilians dead/month in terrorist attacks is still not acceptable) but to say the nation is better....maybe for a few, but as a whole, no its not better and neither are we.

  5. #5
    Too much facts and data for my liking. Besides, I'm invested in defeat. ;)

  6. #6
    Lets see, we lost in Korea, Nam and Iraq. We struck out lets take our bats and gloves and go home. We can join the Jets and be called forever lossers!

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2639693]Lets see, we lost in Korea, Nam and Iraq. We struck out lets take our bats and gloves and go home. We can join the Jets and be called forever lossers![/QUOTE]

    maybe it's time for a head coaching change

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=bitonti;2639708]maybe it's time for a head coaching change[/QUOTE]

    One with zero experience.

    That's intelligent....

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=bitonti;2639615]if one subscribes to arbitrarily defined victory conditions then yes we win every war we ever started

    the way i see it we never formally declared war, this isn't a war it's a police action. you can't win a police action.[/QUOTE]
    And you can never lose a political debate. Must be nice to be nuzzled up in the liberal cocoon. ["where's the WMDs?!?! WHERE'S THE WMDs!?!?!"]

  10. #10
    sorry im just an originalist like Scalia and McCain

    the founding fathers didn't write in the loophole of executive police action so that we could galavant around the world fake-declaring war and then fake-declaring victory.

    history states that wars end in treatys of surrender

    as this isn't a war, there will be no surrender.

  11. #11
    Oh the irony.

    [QUOTE=DeanPatsFan;2639724]One with zero experience.

    That's intelligent....[/QUOTE]

  12. #12
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    I have no clue who Michael Yon is, but I can tell you he is a way off base administration shill who is clearly a hopeless optimist

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2639864]I have no clue who Michael Yon is, but I can tell you he is a way off base administration shill who is clearly a hopeless optimist[/QUOTE]


    Actually, his candor got him twice removed from Iraq by the US military. Try again.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2639908]Actually, his candor got him twice removed from Iraq by the US military. Try again.[/QUOTE]

    He is also one of the longest serving embeded reporters in Iraq, if what I heard was correct. I believe he has been there (other than when removed) for almost the entire War.

    And he was avery vocal critic early on, hence the removals.

  15. #15
    [quote=Warfish;2639918]He is also one of the longest serving embeded reporters in Iraq, if what I heard was correct. I believe he has been there (other than when removed) for almost the entire War.

    And he was avery vocal critic early on, hence the removals.[/quote]

    Yep. Former Green Beret as well, so he knows fighting

  16. #16
    JetsInsider.com Legend
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    [QUOTE]I can tell you he is a way off base administration shill who is clearly a hopeless optimist[/QUOTE]

    vs.

    [QUOTE]Former Green Beret, one of the longest serving embeded reporters in Iraq, twice removed from Iraq by the US military for candor and criticism.[/QUOTE]

    Hmmm.....

  17. #17
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [quote=bitonti;2639790]sorry im just an originalist like Scalia and McCain

    the founding fathers didn't write in the loophole of executive police action so that we could galavant around the world fake-declaring war and then fake-declaring victory.

    history states that wars end in treatys of surrender

    as this isn't a war, there will be no surrender.[/quote]

    yup, no declared war here, move along...

    [URL]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oco2LcWjPpY[/URL]

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2639992]yup, no declared war here, move along...
    [/QUOTE]

    declaration of war is a formal document crafted by a nation, and addressed to another nation.

    you knew that tho right flushing? you just have a flair for the dramatic

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=bitonti;2639615]if one subscribes to arbitrarily defined victory conditions then yes we win every war we ever started

    the way i see it we never formally declared war, this isn't a war it's a police action. you can't win a police action.[/QUOTE]

    OK, we invaded to kick Saddumb's butt and we did...he's dead, executed by the very folks he ruled mercilessly over...Mission Accomplished.

    Were we wrong about how quickly things would settle down and become somewhat normal? Sure! OTOH, if al-Qaeda had stayed out things would have become better much quicker! They fueled much of the sectarian violence but since the Sunnis finally realized the problem and now have turned against al-Qaeda, things are improving.

    Now it seems al-Qaeda has left Iraq and gone to Afghanistan so even BO says we need a "surge" there now! I wonder what his anti-war loon supporters think of his position on this?

  20. #20
    Ah yes... the "war is fun" fans' favorite writer, up on a pedestal once again...

    Michael Yon has no journalistic training. In fact, Yon is former special ops and a gung-ho occupation supporter. He's a decent writer with a pro-occupation agenda. Period. This is a man who reported that "[I]Al-Qaeda elements in Baqubah had, among other atrocities, baked a young boy and served him to his parents[/I]," without verifying the source's claim. He then took the story down from his Web site, but apparently [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Yon"]never addressed the charge[/URL].

    Yon, himself, has declared numerous times on his blog that he is [URL="http://michaelyon-online.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=290:tabula-rasa&catid=63:archive-2007&Itemid=108"]not a journalist [/URL]and has no formal journalism training or experience. He is a published author and internet blogger. His own words:

    [I][INDENT]Now my childhood friend had morphed into a career officer and was trying to recruit me a second time, saying my skills as a writer were needed. “No” was my answer. I’m not a journalist.[/INDENT][/I]

    He may have done journalism work, and has gotten better as a reporter for his work in Iraq, but the fact is he has no journalistic training or schooling, and admits, himself, that he is not a journalist.

    He is a fine writer, but he is also an independent writer, with a profound and undeniable bias. He is former special ops, obviously pro-occupation, and is doing his best to cast the Iraq situation in a positive light. The buy off (surge) is giving him plenty of material.

    Just because he was critical of the early-stage disaster speaks more about the complete void of positive, spinnable news (after our genius leaders fired the Iraqi Army) than it does for his own objectivity.

    The damage is done. The people are either dead, refugees, or seperated across the Tigris. Ethnic cleansing already won.

    Yet, now the smoke is clearing, AQ has redeployed, and we're claiming "victory." They'll be back. And McDonald's and Starbucks won't cure 1000 years of hatred.
    Last edited by Press_Coverage; 07-23-2008 at 06:18 AM.

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