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Thread: Official Cotto Vs Margarito thread (merged)

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mean Bro Green View Post
    many ethnic fans have the same vigor for their champions as I do, theres just not that many here in the site. When I tell you that I almost cried when Tito got KO'd its no joke. I was devastated, that made it a lil better for me this time around, these guys aren't just fighters they represent our people and are the pride of a nation. Seeing Tito and now Miggy like that hurts, I admit that freely, those were my guys and I stick with them regardless. I never said either was unbeatable just felt strongly that they would win in their matchups, I was wrong

    I still despise Paul Williams though, still a fraud IMO, lol. I'm stubborn that way, lol.
    I'm actually envious of fight fans who feel tied ethnically to boxers. For some reason, there aren't too many Italian/Native American fighters out that I can attach myself to! So be it, I end up pulling for the guy from NY or the American fighter on most occasions

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by simijet View Post
    I'm actually envious of fight fans who feel tied ethnically to boxers. For some reason, there aren't too many Italian/Native American fighters out that I can attach myself to! So be it, I end up pulling for the guy from NY or the American fighter on most occasions
    hey you got Joba at least!!!

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mean Bro Green View Post
    hey you got Joba at least!!!
    Yeah, I've got Joba. But I need someone who is both Italian and Native American to fully relate to them.

  4. #44
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    Now this was a great fight, i wish i didn't pass up on this one...

    The fight flowed the way a lot of people who follow the sport expected...You expected Cotto to outbox Margarito early but to fade in the later rounds...The question with this fight was never could Cotto outbox Margarito...That was a given, the question was could Cotto outbox Margarito for a full 12 rounds without hitting the canvas...I thought Cotto's fight plan was very questionable, he was exhausting a lot of energy moving around the outside of the ring circling Margarito...Only Mayweather could execute that fight plan, that's not Cotto's style and his stamina is questionable...

    Margarito is very slow, with Cotto's superior handspeed and boxing skills he could have played it a little more relaxed...You don't want Margarito getting close to you and Cotto showed he could pick him off all night at a range where Margarito couldn't hurt him...The problem was every time Margarito cut him off and got close Cotto took those thundering body shots...Thus exhausting all that energy early in the fight dancing around the ring was done in vein, everyone knew Cotto couldn't keep up that pace, Manny Stewart was pointing that out practically every round...Against Margarito you want to stick and move with a heavy use of your jab and if he gets too close grab him...Don't let him get any power shots off because that guys hands are like sledgehammers, he is slow as molasses but he hits ridiculously hard...His chin and stamina are also godly, the guy is like the Terminator from the movies...No matter what you hit him with you can't hurt him and he keeps on coming forward...

    Margarito's fight plan was on the money...Keep the pressure high and break Cotto down with thundering body shots early, then go up top...Margarito as usual was throwing a ton of punches but he wasn't landing anything cleanly except for those body shots which were absolutely devastating...Even those uppercuts he connected with that hurt Cotto didn't land flush...The body shots are what did it, every time Cotto took one of those body shots he looked like he wanted to quit...Its kind of funny because that's what Cotto does to his opponents, he breaks them down with thundering body shots...He met his match with Margarito, i hope for Cotto's sake he doesn't pursue a rematch because Margarito's style and size is too much for him...

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by simijet View Post
    Yeah, I've got Joba. But I need someone who is both Italian and Native American to fully relate to them.
    you might have to make some of those your own my friend....got kids? lol

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mean Bro Green View Post
    you might have to make some of those your own my friend....got kids? lol
    I have a problem there as well. My wife is Sicilian, so my son relates to being Italian. It's a lost cause

  7. #47
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    Saturday night's performance by Margarito is exactly why I've been a big fan of this man for years. No way did I thin PW would beat him, so imagine the shock when I saw Terrible Tony come up short. It wasn't for lack of effort, though.

    Tony was able to time PW's shots by the time the 7th rd rolled around and he ended up breaking The Punisher's ribs, which was a major reason why he backed up and jabbed, and basically allowed Tony to get back into the fight.

    I posted earlier that it was almost criminal how people forgot how excellent a body pun cher Tony is. Watch how he destroyed Kermit Cintron, and you would see an instant replay of that this past Saturday vs. Cotto. He took the man's best punches, smiled and continued to come forward, while landing shot after body shot.

    There's nothing, imho that Cotto could ahve done any different in this match to change the outcome. Being such a devasting body puncher exposes your head to countershots and uppercuts, and Tony was able to land those at will around the 6th rd. To me, the fight changed during the 7th. Cotto slowed down big time, another no no against a fighter like Margarito, especially a body puncher. He just couldn't keep him away. Factor in Cotto's historical lack of stamina late in fights and he was done. It was a bad combination.

    Because Paul Williams had height, reach, and the ability to unload a tremendous amount of punches per round, plus an iron jaw, he was able to beat Tony. Cotto fought his heart out and earned my respect even more after this fight. How he'll bounce back will be interesting.

    Margarito was The Terminator. I can take yours, but can you take mine? That question was answered emphatically on Saturday. I now expect Margarito to rematch Clottey in another war.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiamiJet View Post
    Saturday night's performance by Margarito is exactly why I've been a big fan of this man for years. No way did I thin PW would beat him, so imagine the shock when I saw Terrible Tony come up short. It wasn't for lack of effort, though.

    Tony was able to time PW's shots by the time the 7th rd rolled around and he ended up breaking The Punisher's ribs, which was a major reason why he backed up and jabbed, and basically allowed Tony to get back into the fight.

    I posted earlier that it was almost criminal how people forgot how excellent a body pun cher Tony is. Watch how he destroyed Kermit Cintron, and you would see an instant replay of that this past Saturday vs. Cotto. He took the man's best punches, smiled and continued to come forward, while landing shot after body shot.

    There's nothing, imho that Cotto could ahve done any different in this match to change the outcome. Being such a devasting body puncher exposes your head to countershots and uppercuts, and Tony was able to land those at will around the 6th rd. To me, the fight changed during the 7th. Cotto slowed down big time, another no no against a fighter like Margarito, especially a body puncher. He just couldn't keep him away. Factor in Cotto's historical lack of stamina late in fights and he was done. It was a bad combination.

    Because Paul Williams had height, reach, and the ability to unload a tremendous amount of punches per round, plus an iron jaw, he was able to beat Tony. Cotto fought his heart out and earned my respect even more after this fight. How he'll bounce back will be interesting.

    Margarito was The Terminator. I can take yours, but can you take mine? That question was answered emphatically on Saturday. I now expect Margarito to rematch Clottey in another war.
    Yeah, I think Clottey will beat Judah, But do you really think he'll be able to hang in there with Margarito this time? Maybe everything is still too fresh from Saturday, but I can't see any non-boxer defeating Tony.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by simijet View Post
    Yeah, I think Clottey will beat Judah, But do you really think he'll be able to hang in there with Margarito this time? Maybe everything is still too fresh from Saturday, but I can't see any non-boxer defeating Tony.
    Simi, if you watched their first fight, it was a war. Brutal. No man backed up. Just toe to toe, take mine and I'll take yours action.

    Margarito was actually losing that fight, but Clottey's hands were just too fragile. Maybe he broke them against Margarito's jaw....

    I think it depends on the health of his hands. Clottey has a history of hand issues, but he seems fine now. If his hands are healthy, this could be another great fight, because both men tend to expose their jaws. I've watched Clottey do it time and again. He's willing to trade shots, just to land one. Like Margarito, he knows himself very well, and what he can handle.

    You're 100% right, Simi, about picking against Tony, coming off this Terminator like performance. I wouldn't. What I do expect, though, is another war. A tough, grind it out fight. Because Tony has faced Clottey before, I think it's safe to say he won't underestimate him.

  10. #50
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    i've been touting clottey for a while on this board, very interested to see what he does against Judah on Sat

    if he wins, who should get the shot at Tony? him or Williams????

    where does Mosley fit in the picture?

    Berto? could they put him in with Cotto next or does Miguel take a tune up to build his confidence up again?

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    I am apparently in the minority here but I don't think much of Josh Clottey.
    He is a very average, basic welterweight and doesn't do anything out of the ordinary. He's got average power, average stamina, average turtle shell D, and not much of an arsenal.

    Judah is far more talented, has been willing to go back to ESPN to stay busy, but is the bigger question mark. If the Judah that fought Cotto shows up, then he wins this relatively easily.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by person View Post
    I am apparently in the minority here but I don't think much of Josh Clottey.
    He is a very average, basic welterweight and doesn't do anything out of the ordinary. He's got average power, average stamina, average turtle shell D, and not much of an arsenal.

    Judah is far more talented, has been willing to go back to ESPN to stay busy, but is the bigger question mark. If the Judah that fought Cotto shows up, then he wins this relatively easily.
    says alot about Cotto in that last sentence there. I think more of Clottey than you but its based on just a few peeks at him, this is his biggest test since he fought Tont and IMO he was set to win that fight but then again winning early rounds against Tony is not always the path to victory as I learned recently.....

    kinda ironic how this fight went from a side note to becoming next in line to fight for the three belts

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mean Bro Green View Post
    if I had egg on my face you would probably eat if off slim love ya
    Only if was on your gash...then I'd lop it up

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mean Bro Green View Post
    says alot about Cotto in that last sentence there. I think more of Clottey than you but its based on just a few peeks at him, this is his biggest test since he fought Tont and IMO he was set to win that fight but then again winning early rounds against Tony is not always the path to victory as I learned recently.....

    kinda ironic how this fight went from a side note to becoming next in line to fight for the three belts
    it gets really confusing. Clottey-Judah for the IBF title that Margarito vacated to fight Cotto. Now Margarito has a mandatory due against a no name for his new WBA belt. But if he gets to unify vs Williams (WBO) or Clottey/Judah (IBF) first, then he won't be stripped for not fighting the mandatory, he'll be elevated to WBA Super Champion...and then that no name will fight for the WBA Regular Title....HA!!

    WBC champ Berto defends vs Stevie Forbes on the Mosley/Mayorga undercard Sept 27

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mean Bro Green View Post
    i've been touting clottey for a while on this board, very interested to see what he does against Judah on Sat

    if he wins, who should get the shot at Tony? him or Williams????

    where does Mosley fit in the picture?

    Berto? could they put him in with Cotto next or does Miguel take a tune up to build his confidence up again?
    Good questions Bro, and yes, I remember you touting Clottey, as I am also impressed by the guy.

    I think one thing we can be hopeful for is that Margarito takes that big step and cleans up the divisions, leaving us with, as Person posted, a Super Champion. As boxing fans, as die hards, I think we all wanted to see PBF(Mayweather) take that task on, as Sugar Ray, Duran and others attempted. Love him or hate him, De La Hoya(DLH) gave us that shot at greatness. Not everyone is cut out for that, though, so while I may not agree with PBF stepping aside and calling it quits, I do understand.

    I hope Tony takes that shot. I hope he fights The Punisher, Clottey, Berto, etc. He has a window to do it, and to get paid, as he's only 30. Give us those matches and cement your legacy. Maybe then, PBF will step out of retirement and give us that mega fight.

    I like Berto a lot. I think he may be pushed a bit too quickly by his management, but Teddy Atlas made a point the other day that has me thinking otherwise about this. You need to challenge boxers. Guys like Gambo, Berto, etc need to step up constantly and face better opposition, otherwise, they fail to grow. You need to test them. You can actually do them harm, a diservice, but keeping them back and playing things cautiously.

    I respect that and he may have a point. I would like to see Berto get a few other fights under his belt, though.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by person View Post
    I am apparently in the minority here but I don't think much of Josh Clottey.
    He is a very average, basic welterweight and doesn't do anything out of the ordinary. He's got average power, average stamina, average turtle shell D, and not much of an arsenal.

    Judah is far more talented, has been willing to go back to ESPN to stay busy, but is the bigger question mark. If the Judah that fought Cotto shows up, then he wins this relatively easily.

    Those are big IF's Person. Here in Miami, I have plenty of friends that liked Zab, not only because they're from Brooklyn but because of his raw abilities in the ring, but he frustrates you. Those three loses in a row almost killed his career. I don't think anyone would hold the PBF and Cotto losses against him, but his performance against Baldomir, a guy he looked past, is exactly why people react the way they do when his name is mentioned.

    Exactly which Zab Judah are we getting, the one vs. Baldomir or the one I saw go to war with Cotto, the one I saw give PBF fits?

    Judah is weak, mentally. I don't see him outlasting a mentally and physically rugged Joshua Clottey. When things get rough, Judah quits. He looks for and finds a way out, whether it's a low blow and punch in the back of the head, or a piss poor performance.

    Judah was always good enough to challenge, but is he good enough to take it to the next level. I don't see it. Now, if he wins, I'll be the first to post here and eat crow.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiamiJet View Post
    Those are big IF's Person. Here in Miami, I have plenty of friends that liked Zab, not only because they're from Brooklyn but because of his raw abilities in the ring, but he frustrates you. Those three loses in a row almost killed his career. I don't think anyone would hold the PBF and Cotto losses against him, but his performance against Baldomir, a guy he looked past, is exactly why people react the way they do when his name is mentioned.

    Exactly which Zab Judah are we getting, the one vs. Baldomir or the one I saw go to war with Cotto, the one I saw give PBF fits?

    Judah is weak, mentally. I don't see him outlasting a mentally and physically rugged Joshua Clottey. When things get rough, Judah quits. He looks for and finds a way out, whether it's a low blow and punch in the back of the head, or a piss poor performance.

    Judah was always good enough to challenge, but is he good enough to take it to the next level. I don't see it. Now, if he wins, I'll be the first to post here and eat crow.
    I agree completely. If there was a spectrum for toughness, you'd have

    Antonio Margarito on one end and Zab on the other. There is no denying

    that he could possibly have the fastest hands in the division. There is

    no denying he's got some pop in his punches. However, there also is no

    denying he is mentally soft. When the going gets tough, he rarely steps up

    and does what he has to do to win. No adjustments to counteract what his

    opponent is doing. No stepping up his intensity. Instead, we get treated to

    (as Miami stated) dirty punkass fighting! This, combined with his apparent

    lack of stamina in every fight, is why I view him as a disappointment.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiamiJet View Post
    Those are big IF's Person. Here in Miami, I have plenty of friends that liked Zab, not only because they're from Brooklyn but because of his raw abilities in the ring, but he frustrates you. Those three loses in a row almost killed his career. I don't think anyone would hold the PBF and Cotto losses against him, but his performance against Baldomir, a guy he looked past, is exactly why people react the way they do when his name is mentioned.

    Exactly which Zab Judah are we getting, the one vs. Baldomir or the one I saw go to war with Cotto, the one I saw give PBF fits?

    Judah is weak, mentally. I don't see him outlasting a mentally and physically rugged Joshua Clottey. When things get rough, Judah quits. He looks for and finds a way out, whether it's a low blow and punch in the back of the head, or a piss poor performance.

    Judah was always good enough to challenge, but is he good enough to take it to the next level. I don't see it. Now, if he wins, I'll be the first to post here and eat crow.

    can't disagree with any of this. I am no fan of Judah, at all.. And would not be surprised to see Clottey win for the same reasons above, however, I think he's a H2H better welterweight than Clottey. So we'll see. Not a bad matchup at all.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by MiamiJet View Post
    Good questions Bro, and yes, I remember you touting Clottey, as I am also impressed by the guy.

    I think one thing we can be hopeful for is that Margarito takes that big step and cleans up the divisions, leaving us with, as Person posted, a Super Champion. As boxing fans, as die hards, I think we all wanted to see PBF(Mayweather) take that task on, as Sugar Ray, Duran and others attempted. Love him or hate him, De La Hoya(DLH) gave us that shot at greatness. Not everyone is cut out for that, though, so while I may not agree with PBF stepping aside and calling it quits, I do understand.

    I hope Tony takes that shot. I hope he fights The Punisher, Clottey, Berto, etc. He has a window to do it, and to get paid, as he's only 30. Give us those matches and cement your legacy. Maybe then, PBF will step out of retirement and give us that mega fight.

    I like Berto a lot. I think he may be pushed a bit too quickly by his management, but Teddy Atlas made a point the other day that has me thinking otherwise about this. You need to challenge boxers. Guys like Gambo, Berto, etc need to step up constantly and face better opposition, otherwise, they fail to grow. You need to test them. You can actually do them harm, a diservice, but keeping them back and playing things cautiously.

    I respect that and he may have a point. I would like to see Berto get a few other fights under his belt, though.
    pushing Berto now makes sense for his development ala Cotto, BUT I don't think he's ready yet for the big names but since he's a champ now they have forced that situation and he cant continue to be in fighter in the making if he's wearing a strap on his waist

  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by person View Post
    can't disagree with any of this. I am no fan of Judah, at all.. And would not be surprised to see Clottey win for the same reasons above, however, I think he's a H2H better welterweight than Clottey. So we'll see. Not a bad matchup at all.
    Person,

    If Judah can box the way we know he's capable of, then this could be a fight, a real interesting one. He has to box and get out. Simi is right about his lack of stamina. Clottey wields a big ax and can chop you down. To me, he fights very similar to James Toney, where he'll take shots, but hit you all over the body(head, arms, shoulders, etc.). By the 9th, 10th round, his opponent is battered, beaten and then he takes over. Clottey has the stamina and chin to do it, and his power is very real. Yes, he can knock you out, but he's more of an accumulator, not in the Paul Williams sense, where he throws a ton of punches, but more like Toney.

    I just seriously doubt we'll get the motivated Zab Judah that we've seen in the past. It's possible, and I'll be shocked, but I doubt it.

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