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Thread: The Pickens Plan

  1. #1
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    The Pickens Plan

    When an oil man admits we have a problem, you know it's getting bad :eek:


    [URL="http://www.pickensplan.com/"]http://www.pickensplan.com/[/URL]

    the wind chart was very encouraging, that was news to me


    thoughts ?

  2. #2
    [QUOTE=samwise;2640832]When an oil man admits we have a problem, you know it's getting bad :eek:


    [URL="http://www.pickensplan.com/"]http://www.pickensplan.com/[/URL]

    the wind chart was very encouraging, that was news to me


    thoughts ?[/QUOTE]

    I'm all for it as long as govt keeps it's nose out of it! If his plan provides cheaper electricity, then it'll work!

  3. #3
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    Sorry, but I am highly cynical.

    This is an attempt by Pickens to get the public to underwrite his investment in alternative energy. The high profile, public PR campaign is being staged so that your Senator will feel the heat of the public attention when ole' Boone goes hat in hand to Washington for some wind farm subsidies.

    Germany has invested heavily in wind technology, and as we know from other industries, the Germans are not neophytes when it comes to applying new technology to solve problems. Northern Germany is also, in the context of continental Europe, one of the best locations for wind farming in terms of wind availability.

    The problem is, the wind farms are producing electricity at a rate well below predictions. And the unpredictability of the generation means that power plants of adequate capacity have to be on standby, ready to make up the shortfall. That redundancy is expensive.

    Would it surprise you to know that Germany, with it's uber-commitment to renewable energy, has plans for 26 new coal fired plants?

    Reality suggests that wind farming is a niche player in the renewable energy market. Not reliable enough, nor inexpensive enough, to be a replacement for the old fashion method of heating water and turning steam turbines to generate electricity.

  4. #4
    Pickens is also deeply invested in Natural Gas.

    His answer for the end of Oil-based-automotive fuel is.......wait for it.........yep, Natural Gas.

    Nothing wrong with that, of course. But it does put some context into his big plan to "save the planet".

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2641210]Pickens is also deeply invested in Natural Gas.

    His answer for the end of Oil-based-automotive fuel is.......wait for it.........yep, Natural Gas.

    Nothing wrong with that, of course. But it does put some context into his big plan to "save the planet".[/QUOTE]

    fair enough, but the big point is it is domestic natural gas, and he is advocating a solution that would use multiple solutions

    when is the last time anyone saw a wind farm or a house with solar panels ? I've seen a grand total of 2 houses with solar panels, both built within the last year, and I've never seen a wind farm

    eastern LI would be a great place for wind farms

    "the US is the saudi arabia of wind"

    man, that is a powerful message

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=asuusa;2640858]I'm all for it as long as govt keeps it's nose out of it! If his plan provides cheaper electricity, then it'll work![/QUOTE]

    the gov't is bought and paid for by special interest groups, the oil lobby will fight this hard, it will almost certainly have to come from private sector investment

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    [QUOTE=rbstern;2640924]Sorry, but I am highly cynical.

    This is an attempt by Pickens to get the public to underwrite his investment in alternative energy. .[/QUOTE]

    beats getting taxpayers to pay for a war over oil though, right ?

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=samwise;2641369]when is the last time anyone saw a wind farm or a house with solar panels ? I've seen a grand total of 2 houses with solar panels, both built within the last year, and I've never seen a wind farm

    eastern LI would be a great place for wind farms

    "the US is the saudi arabia of wind"

    man, that is a powerful message[/QUOTE]

    With all due respect Sam, you should not project Liberal NY's lack of "practicing what they preach" to the rest of the country.

    I see plenty of solar panels here in VA, and there are a number of windfarms here and in nearby states.

    If you would like to see the Problem of wind farms, look no further than the great liberal state of Massachusetts, where two of the preachiest politicians out there worked to stop a wind farm from being built because they didn't want to spoil their spoiled rich guy oceanside views.

    If we can't get Kennedy and Kerry to support it, for nothing more than NIMBY'ism, why would you expect everyone else to?

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2641408]
    If we can't get Kennedy and Kerry to support it, for nothing more than NIMBY'ism, why would you expect everyone else to?[/QUOTE]

    better just give up then ;)

    if Kerry and Kennedy are against something doesn't that mean everyone in this forum is for it?

    by the way I don't know this dude pickens from adam but I bet he makes alot of money in wind power. billioniares don't become such by subscribing to unrealistic beliefs. they usually bet on sure things.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2641433]better just give up then ;)

    if Kerry and Kennedy are against something doesn't that mean everyone in this forum is for it?

    by the way I don't know this dude pickens from adam but I bet he makes alot of money in wind power. billioniares don't become such by subscribing to unrealistic beliefs. they usually bet on sure things.[/QUOTE]

    If it's a sure thing, why does the entire industry need subsidies to compete with fossil fuels?

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    [QUOTE=rbstern;2641804]If it's a sure thing, why does the entire industry need subsidies to compete with fossil fuels?[/QUOTE]

    Are you suggesting that fossil fuels don't have subsidies? Giving subsidies to alternative energy doesn't give them an advantage, it simply puts them on a level playing field.

  12. #12
    ok i have since looked this guy up - since we are in the political forum did anyone else notice he used to be a huge GOP donor - was one of the main funding sources for swift boat - this election cycle all his money is going to promote wind power - not a dime for the election - i guess he figured no sense in throwing away money on McCain.

  13. #13
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2641408]With all due respect Sam, you should not project Liberal NY's lack of "practicing what they preach" to the rest of the country.

    I see plenty of solar panels here in VA, and there are a number of windfarms here and in nearby states.

    If you would like to see the Problem of wind farms, look no further than the great liberal state of Massachusetts, where two of the preachiest politicians out there worked to stop a wind farm from being built because they didn't want to spoil their spoiled rich guy oceanside views.

    If we can't get Kennedy and Kerry to support it, for nothing more than NIMBY'ism, why would you expect everyone else to?[/QUOTE]

    define "plenty"



    here's the thing

    it's very easy to sit back and knock other peoples plans without putting forth an alternative

    how would you solve the energy crisis ?

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=samwise;2642120]define "plenty"



    here's the thing

    it's very easy to sit back and knock other peoples plans without putting forth an alternative

    how would you solve the energy crisis ?[/QUOTE]

    It's not a "crisis". It's Global Climate Warming Change hysteria.

    But since you asked......

    Large Scale Approval and Construction of Nuclear Power Facilities. If France and South Africa can do it, and do it safely, so should we.

    And yes, I'm more than cool with Wind Farms as well.

    But I would stay with Oil-based fuel for Automobiles for now.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2641210]Pickens is also deeply invested in Natural Gas.

    His answer for the end of Oil-based-automotive fuel is.......wait for it.........yep, Natural Gas.

    Nothing wrong with that, of course. But it does put some context into his big plan to "save the planet".[/QUOTE]

    Natural Gas is actually a great alternative fuel to gasoline that is cheap, practical (we have an abundance of it domestically and import it from friendly (i.e. - non Persian Gulf Countries)) and yes, you can actually power cars with it.

    True Story: I was in Peru recently on vacation when me and my friends were in a taxi. Taxi driver pulled up to a gas station to fill has tank with natural gas. The cost to fill his tank? $10.

    In Peru a liter of natural gas cost almost 10% of what a liter of regular unleaded gas costs.

    Another great alternative fuel is cooking oil. If you have a diesel car you can actually convert the engine to run on cooking oil, even used oil which costs like $1 a gallon.
    Last edited by VincenzoTestaverde; 07-23-2008 at 10:22 PM.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2642353]

    But I would stay with Oil-based fuel for Automobiles for now.[/QUOTE]

    We'll [b]have[/b] to for the most part....the wealthy can afford the alternatives, but Rove said that 1/2 or our vehicles are replaced every 10 years, so even if hybrids are the wave of the future, we'll be seeing lots of petro cars for some time b/c most folks can't afford a new vehicle.

    Good tax credits would speed that process up and maybe cities could lead the way by going to alternative fuel in their fleets.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=parafly;2641844]Are you suggesting that fossil fuels don't have subsidies? Giving subsidies to alternative energy doesn't give them an advantage, it simply puts them on a level playing field.[/QUOTE]

    There may be have been subsidies at some point, but generally speaking, in the market today, about 25% of the cost of fossil fuels is tax.

    Why level the playing field? If alternative energies can't currently compete with fossil fuel, let them wait until market forces bring about change. What's the compelling reason to change? We're not going to run out of coal for HUNDREDS of years.
    Last edited by rbstern; 07-24-2008 at 12:05 AM.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2642353]Large Scale Approval and Construction of Nuclear Power Facilities. If France and South Africa can do it, and do it safely, so should we.
    [/QUOTE]

    I was researching this - apparently the kw/hour of nuclear is expensive - above 10 cents per. That's why there aren't more nuke plants being built - they take decades to break even, if ever. It's not good business. Wind by contrast is only 5 cents per, even when the blades aren't moving.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=rbstern;2642498]There may be have been subsidies at some point, but generally speaking, in the market today, about 25% of the cost of fossil fuels is tax.[/QUOTE]


    this is inaccurate on several levels. there are HUGE R&D subsidies right now doled out, as these companies enjoy record profits. and only about 7% or less is tax.

    Believe it or not american's still enjoy some of the cheapest gasoline in the world, the difference is we complain alot more than most.

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