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Thread: An issue I'd like to see addressed

  1. #1

    An issue I'd like to see addressed

    by either one of these lame candidates:


    Securing our borders.


    We need to stem the tide of illegals coming into this country, especially the violent MS-13 ganstas that are spreading like locusts.


    --------------
    FBI threat assessment of MS-13

    THE MS-13 THREAT
    A National Assessment
    01/14/08


    They perpetrate violence—from assaults to homicides, using firearms, machetes, or blunt objects—to intimidate rival gangs, law enforcement, and the general public. They often target middle and high school students for recruitment. And they form tenuous alliances...and sometimes vicious rivalries...with other criminal groups, depending on their needs at the time.

    Who are they? Members of Mara Salvatrucha, better known as MS-13, who are mostly Salvadoran nationals or first generation Salvadoran-Americans, but also Hondurans, Guatemalans, Mexicans, and other Central and South American immigrants. And according to our recent national threat assessment of this growing, mobile street gang, they could be operating in your community...now or in the near future.

    Based on information from our own investigations, from our state and local law enforcement partners, and from community organizations, we’ve concluded that while the threat posed by MS-13 to the U.S. as a whole is at the "medium" level, membership in parts of the country is so concentrated that we've labeled the threat level there "high."

    Here are some other highlights from our threat assessment:

    MS-13 operates in at least 42 states and the District of Columbia and has about 6,000-10,000 members nationwide. Currently, the threat is highest in the western and northeastern parts of the country, which coincides with elevated Salvadoran immigrant populations in those areas. In the southeast and central regions, the current threat is moderate to low, but recently, we've seen an influx of MS-13 members into the southeast, causing an increase in violent crimes there.

    MS-13 members engage in a wide range of criminal activity, including drug distribution, murder, rape, prostitution, robbery, home invasions, immigration offenses, kidnapping, carjackings/auto thefts, and vandalism. Most of these crimes, you'll notice, have one thing in common—they are exceedingly violent. And while most of the violence is directed toward other MS-13 members or rival street gangs, innocent citizens often get caught in the crossfire.

    MS-13 is expanding its membership at a "moderate" rate through recruitment and migration. Some MS-13 members move to get jobs or to be near family members—currently, the southeast and the northeast are seeing the largest increases in membership. MS-13 often recruits new members by glorifying the gang lifestyle (often on the Internet, complete with pictures and videos) and by absorbing smaller gangs.

    Speaking of employment, MS-13 members typically work for legitimate businesses by presenting false documentation. They primarily pick employers that don't scrutinize employment documents, especially in the construction, restaurant, delivery service, and landscaping industries.

    Right now, MS-13 has no official national leadership structure. MS-13 originated in Los Angeles, but when members migrated eastward, they began forming cliques that for the most part operated independently. These cliques, though, often maintain regular contact with members in other regions to coordinate recruitment/criminal activities and to prevent conflicts. We do believe that Los Angeles gang members have an elevated status among their MS-13 counterparts across the country, a system of respect that could potentially evolve into a more organized national leadership structure.

    One final word about MS-13: the FBI, through its MS-13 National Joint Task Force and field investigations, remains committed to working with our local, state, national, and international partners to disrupt and dismantle this violent gang.

  2. #2
    It's no surprise that people come here illegally when our Government rewards their actions by giving their families welfare
    If you want to stop illegal immigration, you have to take away their INCENTIVE to come here.

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=JetsCrazey;2645600]It's no surprise that people come here illegally when our Government rewards their actions by giving their families welfare
    If you want to stop illegal immigration, you have to take away their INCENTIVE to come here.[/QUOTE]

    the incentive isn't welfare it's the job

    if we want to stop illegal immigration you have to punish the corporations who employ these employees.

  4. #4
    [QUOTE=bitonti;2645632]the incentive isn't welfare it's the job

    if we want to stop illegal immigration you have to punish the corporations who employ these employees.[/QUOTE]

    Hey Bit its not only "corporations" its idividuals as well along with small businesses. Got to stop the "free" incentives as well

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=bitonti;2645632]the incentive isn't welfare it's the job

    if we want to stop illegal immigration you have to punish the corporations who employ these employees.[/QUOTE]

    This post is why I despise Liberals sometimes.

    Here's a trailblazing idea, why not do both?

    Why not crack down of welfare and benefits to illegals rather than the current trend of giving them everything for nothing AND crack down on those who hire them (the vast majority of whom, btw, are small businesses).

    While we're at it, how about we actually protect and enforce our border and actually deport (you know, what the law calls for) the illegals our law enforcement does run accross?

    No, too hard is the refrain. Or too racist. Or too inhuman.

    We'll just whine about "Evil Big Companies" and do jack and **** about the problem. Problem? What Problem! Que? :rolleyes:

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=bitonti;2645632]the incentive isn't welfare it's the job

    if we want to stop illegal immigration you have to punish the corporations who employ these employees.[/QUOTE]stop patronizing those corporations and businesses

  7. #7
    Does it really matter what the people want? If you have money and pay a lobby group then you have power in our gov't. Pretty simple and sad.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2645780]This post is why I despise Liberals sometimes.

    Here's a trailblazing idea, why not do both?

    Why not crack down of welfare and benefits to illegals rather than the current trend of giving them everything for nothing AND crack down on those who hire them (the vast majority of whom, btw, are small businesses).

    While we're at it, how about we actually protect and enforce our border and actually deport (you know, what the law calls for) the illegals our law enforcement does run accross?

    No, too hard is the refrain. Or too racist. Or too inhuman.

    We'll just whine about "Evil Big Companies" and do jack and **** about the problem. Problem? What Problem! Que? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    i never said you couldn't do both - what I said was welfare wasn't the main incentive.

    i'd bet money that if all welfare to illegals stopped tomorrow, they'd still keep coming for the jobs

    and as for this "small business" argument - how many small businesses does it take to match the illegals employed by one Tyson Chicken Meat Packing plant? or the migrant pickers who work for one Agro-giant? It all starts at the top, if the biggest violators aren't punished what's the point of going after the smallest?

  9. #9
    I'm pretty sure the MS-13 (and other illegals who come here to commit crimes) are probably self-employed.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=bitonti;2645871]i never said you couldn't do both - what I said was welfare wasn't the main incentive.

    i'd bet money that if all welfare to illegals stopped tomorrow, they'd still keep coming for the jobs

    and as for this "small business" argument - how many small businesses does it take to match the illegals employed by one Tyson Chicken Meat Packing plant? or the migrant pickers who work for one Agro-giant? It all starts at the top, if the biggest violators aren't punished what's the point of going after the smallest?[/QUOTE]


    Look around you.
    Painters, landscapers, housekeepers, carpenters, laborers, masons, plumbers and the list goes on. This is not large companies. This is homeowners and small businesses. The small businesses can't compete in a flooded market of illegals. It's killing the skilled tradesmen.

  11. #11
    ending birthright citizenship for illegals is another must-do. that is another incentive we give them

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2645780]This post is why I despise Liberals sometimes.

    Here's a trailblazing idea, why not do both?

    Why not crack down of welfare and benefits to illegals rather than the current trend of giving them everything for nothing AND crack down on those who hire them (the vast majority of whom, btw, are small businesses).

    While we're at it, how about we actually protect and enforce our border and actually deport (you know, what the law calls for) the illegals our law enforcement does run accross?

    No, too hard is the refrain. Or too racist. Or too inhuman.

    We'll just whine about "Evil Big Companies" and do jack and **** about the problem. Problem? What Problem! Que? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    This is what I hate about conservatives
    Why do you never talk about going after the people who hire illegals. Every post or response from you avoids the issue of going after Americans who hire illegals. You always talk about securing the boarders and cracking down on the benefits going after the illegals. Guess what, if theres no jobs for them here, they will not come. If theres no incentive, they wont risk life and limb to cross the border illegally. The easiest thing would be to take away there incentive to come in the first place. That is something we have far better control over than rounding up the million or so illegals and sending them back. But of course that would hurt business and economy and guys like Warfish dont want to talk about that. Noooooooo!. They want it both ways

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=chicadeel;2646064]Look around you.
    Painters, landscapers, housekeepers, carpenters, laborers, masons, plumbers and the list goes on. This is not large companies. This is homeowners and small businesses. The small businesses can't compete in a flooded market of illegals.[COLOR="black"] It's killing the skilled tradesmen.[/[/COLOR]QUOTE]

    like me. The Mexican's who own the smaller construction co's bring in and hire central americans and pay them sh*,t exployting their own peoples and I have to compete against these p's o. s.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2646478]This is what I hate about conservatives
    Why do you never talk about going after the people who hire illegals. Every post or response from you avoids the issue of going after Americans who hire illegals. You always talk about securing the boarders and cracking down on the benefits going after the illegals. Guess what, if theres no jobs for them here, they will not come. If theres no incentive, they wont risk life and limb to cross the border illegally. The easiest thing would be to take away there incentive to come in the first place. That is something we have far better control over than rounding up the million or so illegals and sending them back. But of course that would hurt business and economy and guys like Warfish dont want to talk about that. Noooooooo!. They want it both ways[/QUOTE]

    Not true, go after them on both ends. Libs are the ones who issist "There just comiming here to work" which is b s plenty of criminals and people with nefairious purposes are coming in as well

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2646478]This is what I hate about conservatives
    Why do you never talk about going after the people who hire illegals. Every post or response from you avoids the issue of going after Americans who hire illegals. You always talk about securing the boarders and cracking down on the benefits going after the illegals. Guess what, if theres no jobs for them here, they will not come. If theres no incentive, they wont risk life and limb to cross the border illegally. The easiest thing would be to take away there incentive to come in the first place. That is something we have far better control over than rounding up the million or so illegals and sending them back. But of course that would hurt business and economy and guys like Warfish dont want to talk about that. Noooooooo!. They want it both ways[/QUOTE]

    Let me interpret this from an economist's point of view: The most effective way that government can fix this is to provide incentive for the employers to hire legal residents. The simplest solution here seems to be that we should tax corporations that cannot provide documentation for 100% of their employees (or give those that are 100% legal some tax breaks)

    That would make word harder to get and would remove some of the incentive but not all. To do that, you have to guarantee that the illegals and their future children will not get government welfare that legal residents do. This entails ending birthright citizenship.

    Make those things happen and we can start solving the problem.
    Last edited by JetsCrazey; 07-26-2008 at 01:45 AM.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2646478]This is what I hate about conservatives
    Why do you never talk about going after the people who hire illegals. Every post or response from you avoids the issue of going after Americans who hire illegals. You always talk about securing the boarders and cracking down on the benefits going after the illegals. Guess what, if theres no jobs for them here, they will not come. If theres no incentive, they wont risk life and limb to cross the border illegally. The easiest thing would be to take away there incentive to come in the first place. That is something we have far better control over than rounding up the million or so illegals and sending them back. But of course that would hurt business and economy and guys like Warfish dont want to talk about that. Noooooooo!. They want it both ways[/QUOTE]

    You think they're coming here for jobs! Are you that ignorant?

    The cost of living in the US is exponentially higher than in Mexico. You think they want to come here and flip burgers for $6/hour and not be able to afford an apartment?

  17. #17
    [url]http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/07/24/road.rage.killing.ap/index.html[/url]

    Ramos was arrested in late March with another man after police discovered a gun used in a double homicide in the car Ramos was driving.

    The district attorney's office decided not to file charges against Ramos, and he was released April 2 even though he was in the process of being deported after his application for legal residence was denied, according to the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement.
    --

    what a country.
    Last edited by sunmou; 07-26-2008 at 02:14 AM.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2646478]This is what I hate about conservatives
    Why do you never talk about going after the people who hire illegals. Every post or response from you avoids the issue of going after Americans who hire illegals.[/quote]

    I ABSOLUTELY support enforcement of the Law against ANYONE who hires illegals, and have said so about....let me see......a million times on this very forum.

    I'm not avoiding anything Ken, your argument is a strawman of the most shabby variety. I want ALL aspects of illegal immigration lawbreakinf enforced, period.

    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2646478]want it both ways[/QUOTE]

    Just admit you want full Amnesty Ken, because we all know thats the case. :rolleyes:

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2646478]This is what I hate about conservatives
    [B]Why do you never talk about going after the people who hire illegals.[/B] Every post or response from you avoids the issue of going after Americans who hire illegals. You always talk about securing the boarders and cracking down on the benefits going after the illegals. Guess what, if theres no jobs for them here, they will not come. If theres no incentive, they wont risk life and limb to cross the border illegally. The easiest thing would be to take away there incentive to come in the first place. That is something we have far better control over than rounding up the million or so illegals and sending them back. But of course that would hurt business and economy and guys like Warfish dont want to talk about that. Noooooooo!. They want it both ways[/QUOTE]


    Warfish said:
    [QUOTE]AND crack down on those who hire them (the vast majority of whom, btw, are small businesses).[/QUOTE]

    Your reading comprehension needs a little work. From reading this part of his sentence, I'm pretty sure he is saying we should crack down on businesses who hire.

  20. #20
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    The last thing Bush, Rove, Cheney, McCain and the top Republicans want to do is to stop illegal immigration for a couple simple reasons:

    1) The corporatists have far more power and influence in the GOP than the nativists. Like the Religious crazies, the nativists provide the basic manpower strength and voting base for the GOP, but their actual influence and decision-making in the party is very limited. The last thing the big corporations who own McCain want is to stop the flow of cheap labor especially when we are in a recession.

    2) Illegal Immigration is a political goldmine for the Republicans. In an election year where the Republicans are on the defensive about every issue, (Iraq, the economy, inflation, high gas prices) this is one of the few issues they can be on the offensive and stir up their base of angry white voters.

    If you need proof for the fact that Republicans are not going to do anything about illegal immigration look to the fact that they have had control of Congress from 1994-2006 and the White House from 2000 - Present and yet during this time period illegal immigration has skyrocketed while they have done little or no substantive measures to address the issue.

    As a matter of fact, I can argue the opposite that the business and banking interests which, along with the neocons, control the GOP, are trying to do the opposite and actually deconstruct our borders with this North American Union initiative that is now being set up. They are even discussing replacing the dollar with a new currency called the Amero that will be shared with Mexico and Canada. No one in the mainstream/corporate-controlled media is reporting this with the exception of Lou Dobbs.
    Last edited by VincenzoTestaverde; 07-26-2008 at 11:00 PM.

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