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Thread: An issue I'd like to see addressed

  1. #21
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    The Democrats are just as much at fault as the Republicans.

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2649011]The Democrats are just as much at fault as the Republicans.[/QUOTE]

    You could say that about almost any issue. Both parties suck.:)

  3. #23
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    Oh great - a few more Rupaul/Puke Cannon fan boys are having another annoying JI meetup-all heil!

    Would be great if you knew what the hell you were talking about-the "neo-con", "amnesty", "corporate" "media" "banking" "amero" riffs are as telling as they are tiresome-isolationist / anti-war GOPers went out of style with Robert Taft, and not all Hispanic voters are wetbacks, fresh from a dip in the Rio Grande.

    More laughs - California hasnt gone GOP since 1988, in 1992 Perot split the vote but since then their electorate has become 40% Latino. Illegals cant vote, so are they all Illegal there? The GOP in CA found to their chagrin that their constant attempts in the early 90s to enact English-1st type legislation drove Hispanic voters as well as the millions of other fruits nuts and flakes that live there (400,000+ votes in CA for Nader in '00) away from it so they had to choose, for want of a better word, Rinos who were fiscally responsible yet more socially liberal to attain/maintain any power, as in Davis' recall.

    Admit it, you dont even know/understand how McCain got to be the GOP nominee this year but that's par for the course. And whats all that talk about Religious crazies? Neo-cons are Liberal Republicans? More Paleo-Con / Libertarian claptrap.

    Yeah, dont vote for mccain because of an issue hes ostensibly for and youre/were against, to enable a marxist that'll f the country more devastatingly, faster not only regarding the same issue but a slew of others-terrific logic there.

    if you could suggest a candidate who is more "Conservative" than Mccain yet is electable nationally Ill write the name in myself. No its not Duncan Hunter or Ron Paul or Tom Tancredo.

    Believe me, illegal immigration is an important issue to me too-Id love to kick everyone and their anchor babies out who shouldnt be here out today, but lets be real, the main issue is not necessarily jobs - theyre 95% unskilled and contribute less than 1% to GDP- the issues are their 3-4% drain on GDP by leeching off of Medicaid, schools,etc as well as their willful lack of assimilation and criminal activity. This applies to illegals from anywhere.

    Oh well, just 2 more lazy "GOPers" (which I doubt, as sensible GOPers of any stripe would never vote for or enable the fraud from Illinois) Ill have to thank for Sultan, i mean President B. Hussein.
    Last edited by flushingjet; 07-27-2008 at 07:24 AM.

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2649308]Oh great - a few more Rupaul/Puke Cannon fan boys are having another annoying JI meetup-all heil!

    Would be great if you knew what the hell you were talking about-the "neo-con", "amnesty", "corporate" "media" "banking" "amero" riffs are as telling as they are tiresome-isolationist / anti-war GOPers went out of style with Robert Taft, and not all Hispanic voters are wetbacks, fresh from a dip in the Rio Grande.

    More laughs - California hasnt gone GOP since 1988, in 1992 Perot split the vote but since then their electorate has become 40% Latino. Illegals cant vote, so are they all Illegal there? The GOP in CA found to their chagrin that their constant attempts in the early 90s to enact English-1st type legislation drove Hispanic voters as well as the millions of other fruits nuts and flakes that live there (400,000+ votes in CA for Nader in '00) away from it so they had to choose, for want of a better word, Rinos who were fiscally responsible yet more socially liberal to attain/maintain any power, as in Davis' recall.

    Admit it, you dont even know/understand how McCain got to be the GOP nominee this year but that's par for the course. And whats all that talk about Religious crazies? Neo-cons are Liberal Republicans? More Paleo-Con / Libertarian claptrap.

    Yeah, dont vote for mccain because of an issue hes ostensibly for and youre/were against, to enable a marxist that'll f the country more devastatingly, faster not only regarding the same issue but a slew of others-terrific logic there.

    if you could suggest a candidate who is more "Conservative" than Mccain yet is electable nationally Ill write the name in myself. No its not Duncan Hunter or Ron Paul or Tom Tancredo.

    Believe me, illegal immigration is an important issue to me too-Id love to kick everyone and their anchor babies out who shouldnt be here out today, but lets be real, the main issue is not necessarily jobs - theyre 95% unskilled and contribute less than 1% to GDP- the issues are their 3-4% drain on GDP by leeching off of Medicaid, schools,etc as well as their willful lack of assimilation and criminal activity. This applies to illegals from anywhere.

    Oh well, just 2 more lazy "GOPers" (which I doubt, as sensible GOPers of any stripe would never vote for or enable the fraud from Illinois) Ill have to thank for Sultan, i mean President B. Hussein.[/QUOTE]

    Oh great - a George W. Retard/Darth "Artery Clog" Cheney" fan [I]boy[/I] is having another awfully lonely JI meetup-all heil!

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=flushingjet;2649308]Oh great - a few more Rupaul/Puke Cannon fan boys are having another annoying JI meetup-all heil!

    Would be great if you knew what the hell you were talking about-the "neo-con", "amnesty", "corporate" "media" "banking" "amero" riffs are as telling as they are tiresome-isolationist / anti-war GOPers went out of style with Robert Taft, and not all Hispanic voters are wetbacks, fresh from a dip in the Rio Grande.

    More laughs - California hasnt gone GOP since 1988, in 1992 Perot split the vote but since then their electorate has become 40% Latino. Illegals cant vote, so are they all Illegal there? The GOP in CA found to their chagrin that their constant attempts in the early 90s to enact English-1st type legislation drove Hispanic voters as well as the millions of other fruits nuts and flakes that live there (400,000+ votes in CA for Nader in '00) away from it so they had to choose, for want of a better word, Rinos who were fiscally responsible yet more socially liberal to attain/maintain any power, as in Davis' recall.

    Admit it, you dont even know/understand how McCain got to be the GOP nominee this year but that's par for the course. And whats all that talk about Religious crazies? Neo-cons are Liberal Republicans? More Paleo-Con / Libertarian claptrap.

    Yeah, dont vote for mccain because of an issue hes ostensibly for and youre/were against, to enable a marxist that'll f the country more devastatingly, faster not only regarding the same issue but a slew of others-terrific logic there.

    if you could suggest a candidate who is more "Conservative" than Mccain yet is electable nationally Ill write the name in myself. No its not Duncan Hunter or Ron Paul or Tom Tancredo.

    Believe me, illegal immigration is an important issue to me too-Id love to kick everyone and their anchor babies out who shouldnt be here out today, but lets be real, the main issue is not necessarily jobs - theyre 95% unskilled and contribute less than 1% to GDP- the issues are their 3-4% drain on GDP by leeching off of Medicaid, schools,etc as well as their willful lack of assimilation and criminal activity. This applies to illegals from anywhere.

    Oh well, just 2 more lazy "GOPers" (which I doubt, as sensible GOPers of any stripe would never vote for or enable the fraud from Illinois) Ill have to thank for Sultan, i mean President B. Hussein.[/QUOTE]

    Trouble Flushing, is that the Republican Party has no accountabillity under your viewpoint. As it will always be "more conservative" than the Democrats, it has no requirement to actually be conservative at all, as long as it's slightly more conservative in appearance than the Dems. So why actually move towards conservativism or conservative values when they can always count on guys like you who will vote for them no matter how liberal they get?

    Sorry, but if 4 years of Obama gets rids of people like McCain, and gets the Republican Party to retren to conservativism, then it's a price well paid.

    McCain is a Liberal Democrat in all but name on a litany of issues, and worse, he gets his kicks kicking Conservativism and proving to his liberal-media friends how much of a "maverick" he is.

    And yes, I do know how he got the nomination, and it wasn't a surge of Conservativism or some rejection of same. It was the assinine Republican System of open prmary voting, where liberals tainted the results in his favor, and a liberal media driven propaganda campaign driving the same for the favorite pet Liberal Republican "maverick".

    You can support that if you wish, and if McCain weren't such a uninspiringly poor and liberal candidate, I could agree with the "pinch yer nose and bear it" ideal.

    But you have to see that when you do that, all you do is propel the Republican party down the road of psudo-liberalism and RINO-ism, a road that will have far worse consequences down the road than the potential of one Obama-led term.

    Again, if thge country is going ot go to ****, it may as well be a real liberal, a Democrat, who causes it and not a liberal in conservatives clothing.

  6. #26
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    [quote=Warfish;2649488]Trouble Flushing, is that the Republican Party has no accountabillity under your viewpoint. As it will always be "more conservative" than the Democrats, it has no requirement to actually be conservative at all, as long as it's slightly more conservative in appearance than the Dems. So why actually move towards conservativism or conservative values when they can always count on guys like you who will vote for them no matter how liberal they get?

    Sorry, but if 4 years of Obama gets rids of people like McCain, and gets the Republican Party to retren to conservativism, then it's a price well paid.

    McCain is a Liberal Democrat in all but name on a litany of issues, and worse, he gets his kicks kicking Conservativism and proving to his liberal-media friends how much of a "maverick" he is.

    And yes, I do know how he got the nomination, and it wasn't a surge of Conservativism or some rejection of same. It was the assinine Republican System of open prmary voting, where liberals tainted the results in his favor, and a liberal media driven propaganda campaign driving the same for the favorite pet Liberal Republican "maverick".

    You can support that if you wish, and if McCain weren't such a uninspiringly poor and liberal candidate, I could agree with the "pinch yer nose and bear it" ideal.

    But you have to see that when you do that, all you do is propel the Republican party down the road of psudo-liberalism and RINO-ism, a road that will have far worse consequences down the road than the potential of one Obama-led term.

    Again, if thge country is going ot go to ****, it may as well be a real liberal, a Democrat, who causes it and not a liberal in conservatives clothing.[/quote]

    War, here's the problem as I see it - for one reason or another, the GOP is splintered to a degree and some of the causes are self-inflicted, others not,
    and the result is party disunity. Some of the GOPers are so much in favor of one single issue, or against another issue, or concerned about one candidates personal life or religion that its given us a compromise (but not necessarily compromised) candidate.

    I participated in one of the Luntz TV panels in NY and it really opened my eyes about some of my fellow voters- some of the prejudices I heard from the NY based GOPers towards Huckabee or even Tancredo were just as extreme as some of the negative feelings Huckabee followers had towards Romney or Giuliani in the South (the one thing Bitonti has gotten 100% correct in this forum in 10 years). Many states were not open primaries so that is not the only reason for Mccains winning, the truth is that the GOP is more moderate en bloc than Conservatives would like to believe and the choice reflects that moderation. Bush was/is no conservative although to a lib he is as far right as they come.

    And as much as Illegal immigration hurts this country, if you look at Hispanic 1st & 2nd generation GOP voters that are middle class they still vote
    the way Italians used to vote, on ethnic lines and the majority will not support anything that seems punitive to Illegals - who (although there are sizable #s of Asians in NY nationwide) by and large they are Hispanic. These voters are a sizable enough number to be a majority or plurality in many places as a GOP constituency.

    I'm not saying to go along to get along or any of that crap. Like I mentioned many before, I am OK w/ McCain because WOT/US Military Strength is my #1 issue. I dont care who agrees or not, thats my concern. Next is Federal Govt Taxation then our Economy, then Oil, then reducing Govt followed by settling the Illegal problem then other social issues. I look at McCains actual voting record instead of guessing and making assumptions & contrary to some
    its mostly conservative

    [URL]http://www.ontheissues.org/john_mccain.htm[/URL]

    I just want to assert again that at this juncture its extremely lazy for anyone to

    a) pronounce osama the winner of the race

    b) assert that B Hussein as POTUS (shudder) will be so lousy that will bring about conservative slanted reform and a return of the GOP in 2010/2012. As long as the liberal/moderate Baby Boomer 1 aged generation (1945-1956) are running Govt & Social Enterprises that is wishful thinking. The GOP will be the minority in every branch of govt - not even a check as the Democrats fancy themselves vs Bush - and non-libs will pay a heavy price for that.

    Just for the sake of knowing if one of the Justices dies or resigns and Mccain wont push an ACLU type is worth my vote for him

    Again, if my taxes go up which is a certainty w/ B Hussein; if I get laid off in a B Hussein recession caused by same; folks get hurt/killed in a domestic terror attack by Islamokooks; Americans are terrorized abroad; and our defense is deballed I can only blame the ones who enabled B Hussein, cause it aint gonna be me

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2645877]I'm pretty sure the MS-13 (and other illegals who come here to commit crimes) are probably self-employed.[/QUOTE]


    San Antonio this statement is wrong. MS-13 started here and has spread to other states and other countries due to OUR failed system. It was not started by illegals , illeagls are simply drawn into it, easily influenced by its power.

    MS-13 started in LA and when a large amount of their members were deported back to their countires (rather than thrown in jail for 50 years ) they started to produce gangs in those countries as well.

    Im in favor of an Impenetrable fence and sending every single illegal back where they came from. I am however in favor of people coming here LEGALLY. Either way this issue goes very deep on many different levels and once again we have created our own problems by not having strict law inforcement. I think every single gang member with a tatoo showing their afiliation to ANY gang should be thrown in jail with the key thrown away because they are ALL affiliated with murder and numerous other crimes.

  8. #28
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    If the GOP is concerned with losing the Latino vote they should take a long look at the vote of blue collar workers who traditionally vote Democratic.

    Somebody needs to take a stand based on the law and listen to the citizens, legal citizens of this country, telling them enough is enough. Don't be so concerned about the Latino vote. There is a huge block of disenfranchised citizens who are struggling to make ends meet. Who don't want to be taxed anymore then they are and who are more then willing to work their ***es off to support their families. They have seen their jobs being taken away by lawbreakers and the government has done nothing. If you don't think all of those workers who are struggling are looking for someone to take a firm stand you have to listen just a little harder. Also, I'm sure there are many Latino voters who came here legally who have a problem with what is going on.
    Corporations that back the GOP,this time around, unless they want an Obama win, need to show good faith with this issue and lead in the movement and stop hiring illegals.

    Thats the money angle.

    Now how about the security angle. How hard is it to remind people that our borders should be secured to control the people entering it. It is a security risk and everyone with half a brain can figure that out.

    If this election is about the economy and security then lets base it on facts that the average American can relate too.This is what you here if you listen close enough.
    They hired cheep labor to do my job.
    Look at the ***tty job they did.
    I could have finished that job in half the time with half the crew. How much money did they really save.
    For the love of God their not even legal.
    No one in this government gives a ****.
    Geez, everywhere you go they worry about security except the border.
    They are all the same, only worried about the big guys or the little guys, not us.


    They are out there and out there in large numbers. Waiting
    Last edited by chicadeel; 07-28-2008 at 08:44 AM.

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=JetsCrazey;2645600]It's no surprise that people come here illegally when our Government rewards their actions by giving their families welfare
    If you want to stop illegal immigration, you have to take away their INCENTIVE to come here.[/QUOTE]

    kinda ironic that the incentive is the same for both legal and illegal immigrants, no?

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2645780]This post is why I despise Liberals sometimes.

    Here's a trailblazing idea, why not do both?

    Why not crack down of welfare and benefits to illegals rather than the current trend of giving them everything for nothing AND crack down on those who hire them (the vast majority of whom, btw, are small businesses).

    While we're at it, how about we actually protect and enforce our border and actually deport (you know, what the law calls for) the illegals our law enforcement does run accross?

    No, too hard is the refrain. Or too racist. Or too inhuman.

    We'll just whine about "Evil Big Companies" and do jack and **** about the problem. Problem? What Problem! Que? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    and this is why I despise right wingers sometimes too, oh sorry you're independent, but regardless......

    after 9-11 we were told that we are in danger and the reason we are in danger is because terrorists want to kill us, so in order to combat this we should go across teh globe and kill alot of people and take away civil liberties of Americans and trample of constitutional rights

    but keep our borders open, huh what? Its been 7 + years and the borders still haven't been successfully addressed in any manner, oh yeah but we created another agency or two, sir you cant have that toothpaste on this plane, we are protecting this country, what a friggin joke

    what is that? you want the next administration to address the borders? Why not this one, ya know the champions of security........

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=chicadeel;2646064]Look around you.
    Painters, landscapers, housekeepers, carpenters, laborers, masons, plumbers and the list goes on. This is not large companies. This is homeowners and small businesses. The small businesses can't compete in a flooded market of illegals. It's killing the skilled tradesmen.[/QUOTE]

    bull, skilled tradesmen in this country are dwindling because the upcoming generation finds no attraction to working with their hands the old fashioned way, they want fast money and fast cars, this is what the media outlets in the country portray and therefore numbers of people interested in learning skilled trades is dwindling.....not due to illegal immigration

    these trades still pay extremely well

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=Riggins44;2647902]Great point, can't tell you how many tradesmen I know in Connecticut that have been brought to their knees by this illegal immigration mess. So imagine how devastating this problem is in places like California and Nevada?

    Many of the tradesmen I know told me they used to have to turn down jobs not too long ago because they were too busy. In the last four years, or so, however, many have been unemployed for long stretches and are getting rocked by tremendous financial hardship. The sadest part is, the snakes in the local media will mostly ignore this probem and focus on "very important issues" like Connecticut kids having enough wiffle ball fields to play on this summer.


    I guess a nice positive in the fight @ illegal immigration is Bush and McCain's top two pro amnesty congressmen, on the Republican side, have been [b]ousted in primaries[/b] and replace by Tancredo like hardliners...A$$ clown neo-cons Chris Cannon (Utah) and Wayne Gilchrist (Maryland) were both shown the door, just not soon enough in my opinion![/QUOTE]


    and this is due to illegals not a crumbling economy and housing market? Are they competing against licensed tradesmen? if not the problem goes back to those doing the hiring not those being hired.

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=Mean Bro Green;2650924]and this is why I despise right wingers sometimes too, oh sorry you're independent, but regardless......

    after 9-11 we were told that we are in danger and the reason we are in danger is because terrorists want to kill us, so in order to combat this we should go across teh globe and kill alot of people and take away civil liberties of Americans and trample of constitutional rights

    but keep our borders open, huh what? Its been 7 + years and the borders still haven't been successfully addressed in any manner, oh yeah but we created another agency or two, sir you cant have that toothpaste on this plane, we are protecting this country, what a friggin joke

    what is that? you want the next administration to address the borders? Why not this one, ya know the champions of security........[/QUOTE]

    I'm wondering if its possible for you to try and put more words in my mouth I've never said than you do here.......come on MBG, give it a go.:rolleyes:

    First, your entire argument here is one big dodge of the issue, and we all know you're doging because you are pro-illegal immigration, or at least indifferent to it. Toss in a little bitterness and what seems to be a feeling of racial persecution you seem to feel, and there you go.

    Second, the entire debate of "lost civil liberties" can, does and has taken up threads on this forum. Lets just say that I respect you if you believe you've personally lost some form of liberty or freedom, as personal liberty and freedom is my guiding principle when it coems to politics and socialogic debate. However, while I am not happy with the Bush Administration's policies as approved by Congress, I do not feel that as an average American citizen that I have lost any freedom or liberty as yet. But I appreciate that such potential loss must be watched out for and fought at every turn.

    Finally, I am not sure whay you think I want "the next administration" to close the border, but am giving Bush some sort of pass, as nothing could be further fromt he truth. I have a long posting record on this forum of lambasting the Bush Administration and John McCain for their respective positions of non-enforcement of Immigration Policy, their seeming support of amnesty, their inabillity to manage the border and their failure to address immigration reform in any meaningful way. Put in the simplest terms, Bush and McCain and Congress have failed the United States on this issue, in every form and in every way. The only people who benefit form the status quo are the illegals........which makes me wonder why a seemingly pro-illegal guy such as yourself would complain in the first place.

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=Mean Bro Green;2650928]bull, skilled tradesmen in this country are dwindling because the upcoming generation finds no attraction to working with their hands the old fashioned way, they want fast money and fast cars, this is what the media outlets in the country portray and therefore numbers of people interested in learning skilled trades is dwindling.....not due to illegal immigration

    these trades still pay extremely well[/QUOTE]



    Really, lets talk about the here and now. Skilled Tradesmen and Mastercraftsmen are being undercut by knockoff crap from China and cheep labor from Mexico. Years ago you had people on job sites that you showed them blueprints and they knew what to do and did it well. Now you have maybe one or two skilled Craftsmen or Mastercraftsmen babysitting cheep labor who basically don't know if they are coming or going. Sorry but that is a fact.

    Why would future generations of potential Craftsmen be enticed to become just that, with what is now becoming a dieing trade.


    Oh ya before I forget, throw into the mix that the majority of these people are here illegally.
    Last edited by chicadeel; 07-28-2008 at 11:31 AM. Reason: Didn't want to forget

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2651056]I'm wondering if its possible for you to try and put more words in my mouth I've never said than you do here.......come on MBG, give it a go.:rolleyes:

    First, your entire argument here is one big dodge of the issue, and we all know you're doging because you are pro-illegal immigration, or at least indifferent to it. Toss in a little bitterness and what seems to be a feeling of racial persecution you seem to feel, and there you go.

    Second, the entire debate of "lost civil liberties" can, does and has taken up threads on this forum. Lets just say that I respect you if you believe you've personally lost some form of liberty or freedom, as personal liberty and freedom is my guiding principle when it coems to politics and socialogic debate. However, while I am not happy with the Bush Administration's policies as approved by Congress, I do not feel that as an average American citizen that I have lost any freedom or liberty as yet. But I appreciate that such potential loss must be watched out for and fought at every turn.

    Finally, I am not sure whay you think I want "the next administration" to close the border, but am giving Bush some sort of pass, as nothing could be further fromt he truth. I have a long posting record on this forum of lambasting the Bush Administration and John McCain for their respective positions of non-enforcement of Immigration Policy, their seeming support of amnesty, their inabillity to manage the border and their failure to address immigration reform in any meaningful way. Put in the simplest terms, Bush and McCain and Congress have failed the United States on this issue, in every form and in every way. The only people who benefit form the status quo are the illegals........which makes me wonder why a seemingly pro-illegal guy such as yourself would complain in the first place.[/QUOTE]

    I'm not pro illegal anything my friend. I do and still think that mixed in with the illegal immigrant debate is inherent racism. Lets just be honest when we say stop illegals lets just call it what it is and say send the Mexicans back, period because noone is complaining about any other group than Mexicans.

    Been to Chinatown lately? How many of those Chinese do you think are legal....anyone complaining? Nah.

    This administration both in the both the exective and legislative branches are a farce, noone wnats illegal immigration stopped that has any influence in this government, just the peons like you that get all worked up about it. I dont care much because I know how corrupt the system is, I live in Miami where there are two oppressed islands just a few miles offshore where immigrants float over here everyday. But guess what? If you're from Cuba (mostly white Latinos) you get to stay as long as one foot touches dry land before you are taken into custody but if you're from Haiti (mostly black) you get detained and sent back immediately....how fuked up is that??? And you wanna tell me that the immigration policies here are not racially derived?

    why doesn't the government stop the Mexicans? they want them here plain and simple. Eventually they will open the borders completely and tell us that its in our best interest to form a coalition of North America in order to compete with Europe, and we are the greatest country in the world???? Please this country has become a joke and a shell of itself. I'm not pro illegal, its just that it really doesnt matter because nothing will be done about it anyway.

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=chicadeel;2651157]Really, lets talk about the here and now. Skilled Tradesmen and Mastercraftsmen are being undercut by knockoff crap from China and cheep labor from Mexico. Years ago you had people on job sites that you showed them blueprints and they knew what to do and did it well. Now you have maybe one or two skilled Craftsmen or Mastercraftsmen babysitting cheep labor who basically don't know if they are coming or going. Sorry but that is a fact.

    Why would future generations of potential Craftsmen be enticed to become just that, with what is now becoming a dieing trade.


    Oh ya before I forget, throw into the mix that the majority of these people are here illegally.[/QUOTE]

    what are we talking about here? If we are talking about skilled licensed plumbers, electricians, contractors, etc then the only way these tradesmen can be cut out is by illegal hiring of unqualified workers, and guess what they are being hired my Americans not illegals so where is the problem really?

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=Mean Bro Green;2651350]I'm not pro illegal anything my friend. I do and still think that mixed in with the illegal immigrant debate is inherent racism. Lets just be honest when we say stop illegals lets just call it what it is and say send the Mexicans back, period because noone is complaining about any other group than Mexicans.[/quote]

    People aim this talk at hispanics, because hispanics make up the vast majority of our illegal immigrant population. But you cannot handle that kind of fact, so you make up straw men arguments about phantom illegal chinese, and then you give him a strawman friend by claiming that those angry with illegal immigration are just anti-mexican racists who would let everyone else BUT the mexicans in, no worries.

    But yep, thats it, we're all just evil racist whiteys. So tell us MBG, what DOES a membership card to La Raza look like?:rolleyes:

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    [QUOTE=chicadeel;2651157]Really, lets talk about the here and now. Skilled Tradesmen and Mastercraftsmen are being undercut by knockoff crap from China and cheep labor from Mexico. Years ago you had people on job sites that you showed them blueprints and they knew what to do and did it well. Now you have maybe one or two skilled Craftsmen or Mastercraftsmen babysitting cheep labor who basically don't know if they are coming or going. Sorry but that is a fact.

    Why would future generations of potential Craftsmen be enticed to become just that, with what is now becoming a dieing trade.


    Oh ya before I forget, throw into the mix that the majority of these people are here illegally.[/QUOTE]



    lower your prices.....

    yeesh....just because you are American doesn't mean you have the right to charge me $350 for 15 minutes of work......

    I mean...hey..I would love to never use an illegal (I can't say that I have or haven't, but if I were to hazzard a guess about my landscaper and the guy who is painting my house....well....)

    I need to save money too....

    free market..

    blah blah blah...

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=piney;2651394]lower your prices.....

    yeesh....just because you are American doesn't mean you have the right to charge me $350 for 15 minutes of work......

    I mean...hey..I would love to never use an illegal (I can't say that I have or haven't, but if I were to hazzard a guess about my landscaper and the guy who is painting my house....well....)

    I need to save money too....

    free market..

    blah blah blah...[/QUOTE]

    So it's agreed, lets drop the minimum wage to $3.00 or abolish it altogether

  20. #40
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    [QUOTE=acepepe;2651476]So it's agreed, lets drop the minimum wage to $3.00 or abolish it altogether[/QUOTE]

    what does that have to do with independant contractors?

    What does that have to do with a plumber I hire or someone to do my driveway?

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