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Thread: Former US Backed/Bush Lackey Iraqi PM Allawi Says Surge Not so Great

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    Former US Backed/Bush Lackey Iraqi PM Allawi Says Surge Not so Great

    [QUOTE][B]Former Iraqi P.M. Says Surge Not So Great[/B]

    When it comes to Iraq, the surge is a great success, right? Well, according to Ayad Allawi, Iraq's former prime minister, that depends on what you mean by "success".

    In a briefing before members of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs yesterday, Allawi answered questions from members of he subcommittee on international organizations, human rights, and oversight. When asked by Dana Rohrabacher (R-Calif.), the subcommittee's ranking member, for Allawi's "assessment of of what's come of the surge," Allawi all but said, not much.

    Reminding Rohrabacher that the original objective of the surge was to create a safe environment for a process of national reconciliation, Allawi said, [B]"Now, militarily, the surge has achieved some of its goals. Politically, I don't think so." [/B]

    Allawi rattled off a laundry list of perils that still confront the Iraqi people: [B]internal displacement of large numbers of people, millions of refugees outside Iraq, security forces he described as sectarian militias dressed in national uniforms, no enforcement of the national constitution, which he described as a "divisive" document. [/B]

    The former prime minister, who is now a member of the Iraqi parliament, also alleged that[B] the process known as "deBaathification" is "being used to punish people."[/B] [B]Originally designed to purge Saddam Hussein's loyalists from the military and security forces, Allawi said the process has become politicized and can be used against virtually anybody, since Saddam Hussein's "Baath party ruled for 35 years, and every individual had to join..." [/B]

    "[B]So, if you measure the surge from a military point of view, it has succeeded," Allawi said. "But I don't think this was the [prime] objective, because soon you will have reversals. Security has not prevailed, and the key element in security is reconciliation, and building national institutions for the country. If this does not happen, then the surge will go in vain."[/B]

    Despite his role as arch-rival to current Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki (whose party defeated Allawi's in Iraq's 2005 elections), [B]Allawi seems to concur with Maliki's call for a plan for withdrawal of U.S. troops[/B]. In his opening statement, Allawi told the subcommittee, [B]"As we think about moving to the next stage of our relationship, it is appropriate to discuss a time frame for reduction of U.S. forces."[/B]
    He cautioned, however, against any withdrawal that would take place before non-sectarian institutions and defense forces take shape, or before a reconciliation process, which he noted as being high on Congress's list of benchmarks, is under way in earnest.

    Nonetheless, leaders of Allawi's political party, the Iraqi National List, were among the 31 leaders in the Iraq parliament who signed a letter (PDF) presented to Congress on May 29 requesting that a timetable for withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq to be part of any future agreement between the two countries. The 31 signatories signed as representatives of their political parties, collectively speaking for a majority of Iraq's 275 members of parliament.

    The Bush administration has been negotiating with the Maliki government an agreement based on a "declaration of principles", which the two leaders signed November without the approval of their respective legislatures. This coming December, the U.N. mandate that protects U.S. forces in Iraq will expire, and the administration apparently seeks to replace it with a bilateral agreement that takes the U.N. out of the equation.

    Subcommittee Chairman Bill Delahunt (D-Mass.) yesterday conducted the seventh in his series of hearings on the declaration of principles. Allawi did not appear as part of that hearing, but rather in a briefing held afterwards. Rosa DeLauro (D-Conn.), Delahunt's co-sponsor on legislation that would extend the U.N. mandate for another six months, sat in for the "conversation", as it was called, with Allawi, commiserating over the lack of transparency by their respective executives about agreements under discussion via the declaration of principles. (DeLauro is not a member of the foreign affairs commitee.)

    "When you said you don't know what the substance of that agreement is—that's the same for us," DeLauro said.

    Once seen as a tool of the Bush administration (especially during the 2004 campaign against John Kerry), Allawi today is singing a different tune from the cheerful notes he once struck in favor of Bush's Iraq policy. His eyes are clearly trained on the 2008 U.S. presidential election—and Iraq's 2009 national elections.

    —Adele M. Stan
    The Media Consortium[/QUOTE]

    Wow!! A former Bush lackey is now saying that the surge is not quite the success that McCain and the rest on the right are claiming it is.

    I give all the credit to the brave soldiers who were put into this impossible situation. But Iraqs problems will not be solved by US troops. The solution has to come from the Iraqis.

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    I love this. He's a Bush "Lackey", but, now that he says something you want to hear, he's a treasure trove of information. :P


    Same goes for Maliki. Bush puppet? Can't have it both ways.

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    [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2646574]I love this. He's a Bush "Lackey", but, now that he says something you want to hear, he's a treasure trove of information. :P


    Same goes for Maliki. Bush puppet? Can't have it both ways.[/QUOTE]

    Pathetic... and typical nah-nah rationale...

    It's the same way when we point on the once-a-month instance that Faux News actually reports something unflattering of the Bush League... And you and yours will trot out the miss-the-entire-point macro default response of "I thought Fox was always wrong?" What are you, 11?

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    [QUOTE=Press_Coverage;2646607]Pathetic... and typical nah-nah rationale...

    It's the same way when we point on the once-a-month instance that Faux News actually reports something unflattering of the Bush League... And you and yours will trot out the miss-the-entire-point macro default response of "I thought Fox was always wrong?" What are you, 11?[/QUOTE]


    I don't watch Fox news and am not obsessed with any particular network (unlike yourself).

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    Just wondering-

    What's it like to never be satisfied or look for the negative in everything?

    Also, do you have any extra America sucks articles that you can share with us?

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    [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2646621]I don't watch Fox news and am not obsessed with any particular network (unlike yourself).[/QUOTE]

    Really, cool guy? What network would I be "obsessed" with? Take your time making up your next round of drivel.

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    [QUOTE]"So, if you measure the surge from a military point of view, it has succeeded," Allawi said. [/QUOTE]

    Um, it was a military surge. How else would you measure it other than from a military point of view?

    Anyway, as for "lackeys," here's an excerpt from uber-liberal Lanny Davis' latest observations on Iraq:

    [QUOTE]Then in 2005-06 came the increased violence from the Sunni insurgents against American kids, then the sectarian civil war between Sunnis and Shi'ites, with young Americans caught in the crossfire. My certainty in opposing the war and supporting a deadline for getting out re-emerged.

    And then in early 2007 came the surge, which so many of us in the antiwar left of the Democratic Party predicted would be a failure, throwing good men and women and billions of dollars after futility. [B]We were wrong.[/B]

    The surge did, in fact, lead to a reduction of violence, confirmed by media on the ground as well as our military leaders.

    It did allow the Shi'ite government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki in the last several months to show leadership by joining, if not leading, the military effort to clean out of Basra the masked Mahdi Army controlled by the anti-U.S. Shi'ite extremist cleric Muqtada al-Sadr and from the Sadr City section of Baghdad he claimed to control.

    This willingness by the Shi'ite-dominated al-Maliki government to move against the Sadr Shi'ite extremists won crucial credibility for the government among many Sunni leaders and Sunnis on the streets, who joined together with Shi'ites to turn against the al Qaeda in Iraq and other Taliban-like extremists.

    These are facts, not arguments. [/QUOTE]

    You can read the whole article [URL="http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jul/21/confessions-of-an-anti-iraq-war-democrat/"]here[/URL]

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    [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2646574]I love this. He's a Bush "Lackey", but, now that he says something you want to hear, he's a treasure trove of information. :P


    Same goes for Maliki. Bush puppet? Can't have it both ways.[/QUOTE]

    No, he was always a treasure trove of info. I mearly am stating that someone who was on board with the invasion (and still supports it) is saying that the surge is not all what its cracked up to be. So that you dont think this is coming from some anti-war guy. BTW, do you even know who Allawi is???

    As for Maliki, he is hardly a Bush puppet. Tehran controlls his strings. A Bush Puppet would not say F you to Bush's plans of permanent bases in Iraq and then say he supports a US withdrawal in 16 mos.

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    [QUOTE=chicadeel;2646625]Just wondering-

    What's it like to never be satisfied or look for the negative in everything?

    Also, do you have any extra America sucks articles that you can share with us?[/QUOTE]

    Whats it like to live in a fantasy world and refuse to accept that we make mistakes???
    I love America. I served her for 7 years. When we are doing something wrong i will point it out to save us from making further mistakes.

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    [QUOTE][QUOTE]=[B]shakin318[/B];2647240]Um, it was a military surge. How else would you measure it other than from a military point of view? QUOTE][/QUOTE]

    Um, the point of the surge was to provide time and peace to allow for political progress. According to Allawi, there has been little significant progress. Therefore the surge is not succeeded to meet its objectives. Its not the military's fault. This is not what our soldiers train for. They were put into an impossible situation by people who want to save face
    Last edited by kennyo7; 07-26-2008 at 08:49 AM.

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    [QUOTE=shakin318;2647240]
    Anyway, as for "lackeys," here's an excerpt from uber-liberal Lanny Davis' latest observations on Iraq:



    You can read the whole article [URL="http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jul/21/confessions-of-an-anti-iraq-war-democrat/"]here[/URL][/QUOTE]

    I think Lanny Davis' article is quite foolish and full of inaccuracies especially when he hails Alawis standing up to the Madhi Army as a n example to the Sunnis that he is willing to stand up to Shia militias. He doesnt even mention the policies that Maliki set up leading to the ethnic cleansing of Baghdad that forced Sunnis either to death or n exile from their homes. How do you think the Sunnis view this?? Or the de-baatthification laws that Sunnis sharply criticized that now allow him to essentially arrest any opponent by claiming they were former Baathists. Davis also fails to comment on the fact that Maliki seeks advise/approval from Tehran on all important matters (including how to handle Sadr and his Madhi Army) before acting and how Iran is now a close friend/allie to Iraq. He also fails to comment on the 5 million Iraqis who fled the country of which only a couple of thousand have returned. Is this what Davis hoped to accomplish in Iraq? Is this why our soldiers died for??

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    Major military operations were over years ago. Didn't GW say that?


    [IMG]http://www.wisopinion.com/blogs/uploaded_images/mission-accomplished-778969.jpg[/IMG]


    [QUOTE=shakin318;2647240]Um, it was a military surge. How else would you measure it other than from a military point of view?

    Anyway, as for "lackeys," here's an excerpt from uber-liberal Lanny Davis' latest observations on Iraq:



    You can read the whole article [URL="http://washingtontimes.com/news/2008/jul/21/confessions-of-an-anti-iraq-war-democrat/"]here[/URL][/QUOTE]

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    I don't care about the surge because I don't give an "F" about the poor poor oppressed Iraqi people. The world would be a much better place if everyone in the middle east just ceased to exist one day.

    Seems like alot of the uber patriotastic folks in here like Iraqis more than they do Americans...which is really sad.

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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2647384]I think Lanny Davis' article is quite foolish and full of inaccuracies especially when he hails Alawis standing up to the Madhi Army as a n example to the Sunnis that he is willing to stand up to Shia militias. He doesnt even mention the policies that Maliki set up leading to the ethnic cleansing of Baghdad that forced Sunnis either to death or n exile from their homes. How do you think the Sunnis view this?? Or the de-baatthification laws that Sunnis sharply criticized that now allow him to essentially arrest any opponent by claiming they were former Baathists. Davis also fails to comment on the fact that Maliki seeks advise/approval from Tehran on all important matters (including how to handle Sadr and his Madhi Army) before acting and how Iran is now a close friend/allie to Iraq. He also fails to comment on the 5 million Iraqis who fled the country of which only a couple of thousand have returned. Is this what Davis hoped to accomplish in Iraq? Is this why our soldiers died for??[/QUOTE]


    I guess you missed the paragraph on how Democracy is blooming in Iraq?

    Do you know Sunnis are moving back into their homes in Baghdad? My unit ICW the Iraqi Army, Police and Sons of Iraq have been moving out Shia from previously owned Sunni homes.

    When a car bomb exploded recently in that area, they did not blame the US, Iraqi Army or Sunii Extermist, but the thugs that are in the area.

    There is so much that happens that never sees the light of day.

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2647411]I don't care about the surge because I don't give an "F" about the poor poor oppressed Iraqi people. [B]The world would be a much better place if everyone in the middle east just ceased to exist one day. [/B]

    Seems like alot of the uber patriotastic folks in here like Iraqis more than they do Americans...which is really sad.[/QUOTE]



    Weird. Something we actually agree on.

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    That is great news. We should be pulling out. End of story.

    [QUOTE=PFSIKH;2647489]I guess you missed the paragraph on how Democracy is blooming in Iraq?

    Do you know Sunnis are moving back into their homes in Baghdad? My unit ICW the Iraqi Army, Police and Sons of Iraq have been moving out Shia from previously owned Sunni homes.

    When a car bomb exploded recently in that area, they did not blame the US, Iraqi Army or Sunii Extermist, but the thugs that are in the area.

    There is so much that happens that never sees the light of day.[/QUOTE]

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    [QUOTE=PFSIKH;2647489]I guess you missed the paragraph on how Democracy is blooming in Iraq?

    Do you know Sunnis are moving back into their homes in Baghdad? My unit ICW the Iraqi Army, Police and Sons of Iraq have been moving out Shia from previously owned Sunni homes.

    When a car bomb exploded recently in that area, they did not blame the US, Iraqi Army or Sunii Extermist, but the thugs that are in the area.

    There is so much that happens that never sees the light of day.[/QUOTE]

    Do you know that the # moving back compared to the # who left is miniscule??? Do you know that 5 million Iraqi refugees makes Iraq the worst refugee crisis in the world today?? You say Democracy is blooming in Iraq, but the Sunnis would not agree with that. The reconciliation laws proposed earlier this year have still not been acted upon by their parliament and Sunnis were completely against it.

    Tell me, how do you feel about the kind of welcome Ahmedinejad received from the Iraqi govt?? Did you like the red carpet?? The warm embraces?? Did you like when Maliki called Iran a great friend and partner??? How do you feel about Iraq seeking Tehrans approval when it had to make a decision about extending the US's stay in Iraq. Or when it consulted Tehran right before it acted against Sadr?? You cant seriously be happy about that.

    As a former soldier, I appreciate what you do. But quite frankly, i dont think your assessment is reflective of the big picture of whats happening in Iraq politics.

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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2647371]Whats it like to live in a fantasy world and refuse to accept that we make mistakes???
    I love America. I served her for 7 years. When we are doing something wrong i will point it out to save us from making further mistakes.[/QUOTE]



    Oh, come on Ken. Nobody's living in a fantasy world. If you yourself don't realize that almost everything someone says that is a positive about America you try to shoot down,I don't know what to tell you. I'm not trying to insult you but it really seems to be the norm for you.
    I'm in no way delusional about the things this country does or has done. That being said I don't go way out of my way to disparage every stinking thing that is a plus for this country.
    ........and above all.........
    Thanks for your service!:)

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2647371]Whats it like to live in a fantasy world and refuse to accept that we make mistakes???
    I love America. I served her for 7 years. When we are doing something wrong i will point it out to save us from making further mistakes.[/QUOTE]

    I look forward eagarly to your many forthcoming threads denouncing Obama and his Afganistan Reinforcement Plan and his illegal (Yal libs love that one, and it clearly applies here) Pakistani Incursion Plan.

    You have satated clearly you disagree strongly with both. So once he's elected, I will look forward to your equally aggressive and strident assaults on Obama for these actions......should ne not turn out to be simply lying, of course.

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