Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 62

Thread: National Healthcare

  1. #21
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    greenwich village, NYC
    Posts
    8,169
    [QUOTE=acepepe;2664613]my "dream world" is living next to the BIGGIST med center in the world. I also have several friends who are doctors there and i can assure you no one is left untreated. As I asked, if health care is so great elsewhere why do people from all over the world come here? I have friends in England who are Bobbies at scotland yard that have to pay supplimental because their "free" heathcare SUCKS. So daddy scocialist,as the old saying goes, You think healthcare is expensive now wait til its free.. been to Sweden the "free" health care sucks as well. scocialism/ communism will ALWAYS fail in the long run. One other thing why do the "poor alway seam to have money for cigarette's and beer but no money for a dentist?which by the way is also provided free by the gummint[/QUOTE]

    I've spent the last 23 years working in healthcare and I know that your statement that "no one is left untreated" is simply false. You're telling me that if I have no insurance and low income and I am told I need a non emergent surgical procedure, your friends will do it? Gotta give me the name of that hospital....

    P.S. the choice is not completely nationalized healthcare vs. private. There is a whole range of options in between.

    Re the dentist, I wasn't referring to Medicaid, but to the vast majority of us who work and don't have dental coverage. Another cost-cutting measure by the insurance companies that you and Warfish admire so much and feel are so sympathetic to their purchasers. Yes, private healthcare is so much more caring than the government :rolleyes:

  2. #22
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    23,070
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2664649]Then they leave and walk out to a 2007 Cadillac Escalde, Acura or Lexus in the lot.

    Look, I'm not against helping the needy. I am against waste. And I don't need to be told what it looks like, I see it every time I go shopping. If I saw even a minimum of concern on teh part of today's socialist liberals abotu dealing with abuse of teh sstems and waste, they might win me over to some degree. But they don't, and they don't.[/QUOTE]

    And neither are "conservatives" concerned about waste and abuse in our welfare systems...otherwise they might have changed it during the decade that they held power in Washington. But they did nothing.

    The only people actually concerned about waste and abuse are people like you and I, Warfish...people who end up footing the bill every week in our paychecks but are powerless to change it because our douchebag elected officials are more concerned with running for re-election than with actual governing. I hope they choke to death on their filet mignon's tonight.

    What about George W. Bush makes you want to serve him? :rolleyes:

  3. #23
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Long Island & Section 337
    Posts
    4,859
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2664729]I've spent the last 23 years working in healthcare and I know that your statement that "no one is left untreated" is simply false. You're telling me that if I have no insurance and low income and I am told I need a [B]non emergent[/B] surgical procedure, your friends will do it? Gotta give me the name of that hospital....

    [/QUOTE]Smooth how you snuck in "non emergent" procedures to make your point. His point was that no one is denied urgent necessary care in this country. And yes, my hospital does quite a bit of charity care, including preventative care. How do I know? I see my personal financials at the end of each month, which includes some 100% free charitable write-offs.

  4. #24
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    greenwich village, NYC
    Posts
    8,169
    [QUOTE=HDCentStOhio;2664774]Smooth how you snuck in "non emergent" procedures to make your point. His point was that no one is denied urgent necessary care in this country. And yes, my hospital does quite a bit of charity care, including preventative care. How do I know? I see my personal financials at the end of each month, which includes some 100% free charitable write-offs.[/QUOTE]

    I didn't sneak in anything. The point is that for the vast majority of procedures, hospitals are trying to make a buck just like any other business. They don't routinely give away expensive procedures unless they are mandated to do so, or they receive city, state, or federal moneys and part of the bargain is to provide emergent services in return. You know that very well, and you know that there are about 75 million Americans who are uninsured. American healthcare is fragmented and hardly for "everybody." If that was the case, we wouldn't be discussing the need for some form of nationalized managment of care and broadened eligibility.

  5. #25
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Long Island & Section 337
    Posts
    4,859
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2664787]I didn't sneak in anything. The point is that for the vast majority of procedures, hospitals are trying to make a buck just like any other business. They don't routinely give away expensive procedures unless they are mandated to do so, or they receive city, state, or federal moneys and part of the bargain is to provide emergent services in return. You know that very well, and you know that there are about 75 million Americans who are uninsured. American healthcare is fragmented and hardly for "everybody." If that was the case, we wouldn't be discussing the need for some form of nationalized managment of care and broadened eligibility.[/QUOTE]

    Now it is 75 million? Where do you guys get these figures from?
    And by the way, my "uninsured" patient just last month got a colonoscopy, cardiac cath, and a defibrillator implanted "gratis". I also got not a dime for his two week hospitalization. But if someone absolutely needs care in this country, they will get it. Now if they want a free facelift, they should keep dreaming.

  6. #26
    [QUOTE=HDCentStOhio;2664798]Now it is 75 million? Where do you guys get these figures from?
    And by the way, my "uninsured" patient just last month got a colonoscopy, cardiac cath, and a defibrillator implanted "gratis". I also got not a dime for his two week hospitalization. But if someone absolutely needs care in this country, they will get it. Now if they want a free facelift, they should keep dreaming.[/QUOTE]
    the libs include the illegals in thier numbers as AMERICANS without healthcare

  7. #27
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Long Island & Section 337
    Posts
    4,859
    [QUOTE=acepepe;2664808]the libs include the illegals in thier numbers as AMERICANS without healthcare[/QUOTE]

    But they wouldn't be denied urgent care, either.;)

  8. #28
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Stuart, FL
    Posts
    4,132

    Wrong.

    [QUOTE=Sharrow;2664019]I remember watching Sicko and the one point he made that has kind of stuck in my head was that we've socialized police, fire departments, etc. and they're working out alright, so why not medical care too? Anybody got an answer to that, other than being anti-socialist in general?[/QUOTE]

    Ummmm, Fire Departments are NOT socialized. At all. Whatsoever. The Federal Government STOPPED subsidizing Fire Departments in the late Seventies after the advent of the White Paper on EMS and Fire Services. That is what led to combining Fire and EMS into todays "Fire Rescue" Departments - believe it or not, EMS is the money maker for departments. Every time a person is transported to the hospital via Fire Rescue, that person (or insurance company) is BILLED. Granted, many people WE transport have no insurance, so they never pay a dime...

    But beyond that, Fire Services are funded and operated strictly on the local level through local juristictional (Town, City, County) taxes and referendums. Fire Departments get ZERO money from the Fed, they aren't even considered "Homeland Security" related agencies.

    For example, right now due to the current self-inflicted "budget crunch" here in Florida from the Property Tax reductions that resulted in an average savings of a whopping $200 A YEAR to Home Owners, Fire Departments are cutting services and many are preparing to layoff Firefighters. Here in West Palm, the city is preparing to levee a "Fire Tax" of $20 a year to Residential properties and higher for Commercial/Healthcare facilities to offset those cuts.

    Something most people don't realize is that a good portion of what factors into the cost of their Homeowners insurance is a Fire Departments Insurance Safety, or ISO rating. The better the FIre Department, the lower the Rating (My FD is an ISO 2 Department), and the lower the rating, the lower the Insurance rate....

    So no, Fire and Police Departments have NOT been socialized, they are local entities. Maybe you should learn the definition of Socialism before you try to argue for or against socialist policies.

  9. #29
    The majority of your funding is taxes and I think that was the point. I don't think it really matters where the taxes are coming from the citizens are paying.

    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;2664980]Ummmm, Fire Departments are NOT socialized. At all. Whatsoever. The Federal Government STOPPED subsidizing Fire Departments in the late Seventies after the advent of the White Paper on EMS and Fire Services. That is what led to combining Fire and EMS into todays "Fire Rescue" Departments - believe it or not, EMS is the money maker for departments. Every time a person is transported to the hospital via Fire Rescue, that person (or insurance company) is BILLED. Granted, many people WE transport have no insurance, so they never pay a dime...

    But beyond that, Fire Services are funded and operated strictly on the local level through local juristictional (Town, City, County) taxes and referendums. Fire Departments get ZERO money from the Fed, they aren't even considered "Homeland Security" related agencies.

    For example, right now due to the current self-inflicted "budget crunch" here in Florida from the Property Tax reductions that resulted in an average savings of a whopping $200 A YEAR to Home Owners, Fire Departments are cutting services and many are preparing to layoff Firefighters. Here in West Palm, the city is preparing to levee a "Fire Tax" of $20 a year to Residential properties and higher for Commercial/Healthcare facilities to offset those cuts.

    Something most people don't realize is that a good portion of what factors into the cost of their Homeowners insurance is a Fire Departments Insurance Safety, or ISO rating. The better the FIre Department, the lower the Rating (My FD is an ISO 2 Department), and the lower the rating, the lower the Insurance rate....

    So no, Fire and Police Departments have NOT been socialized, they are local entities. Maybe you should learn the definition of Socialism before you try to argue for or against socialist policies.[/QUOTE]

  10. #30
    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2664736]And neither are "conservatives" concerned about waste and abuse in our welfare systems...otherwise they might have changed it during the decade that they held power in Washington. But they did nothing.[/quote]

    I agree. If you can find me defending the Republican Party in that post, I'll be impressed....because I didn't.

    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2664736]The only people actually concerned about waste and abuse are people like you and I, Warfish...people who end up footing the bill every week in our paychecks but are powerless to change it because our douchebag elected officials are more concerned with running for re-election than with actual governing. I hope they choke to death on their filet mignon's tonight.[/quote]

    Won't get an argument from me about the worthlessness of the vast majority of our elected officials. But as long as the option is "Party R or Party D" only, I see no change coming. As long as eveyone thinks a third party has no chance, they're right....it doesn't.

    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2664736]What about George W. Bush makes you want to serve him? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    I am not a fan.

  11. #31
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Jets Stadium Section 246
    Posts
    36,888
    This country is full of "give me, give me" people who don't seem to want to do anything to earn it. The few people who do work hard, go to school for a decade to become doctors (and pay hundreds of thousands to do so), not only are now subjected to ridiculous litigation and malpractice insurance premiums, but they have politicians wanting to commoditize them. If you socialize healthcare I think far fewer of our best and brightest may persue the profession of medicine.

  12. #32
    Jets Insider VIP
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Van down by the river
    Posts
    23,070
    [QUOTE=jetstream23;2665220]This country is full of "give me, give me" people who don't seem to want to do anything to earn it. The few people who do work hard, go to school for a decade to become doctors (and pay hundreds of thousands to do so), not only are now subjected to ridiculous litigation and malpractice insurance premiums, but they have politicians wanting to commoditize them. If you socialize healthcare I think far fewer of our best and brightest may persue the profession of medicine.[/QUOTE]

    Oh those poor poor oppressed doctors. So sad. <sniff>

    This country is also full of hard working people who just can't afford to fork over $175 a week in family health care costs. Didja ever think of that? Did you ever think that if maybe ******* doctors and hospitals stopped charging us 400 bucks for a q-tip, maybe some more of us could afford health care? Care to guess how many billing error me and my wife found when we had our last kid?

    Everyone is against malpractice lawsuits until it's their kid dead on the operating table.

  13. #33
    All League
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Stuart, FL
    Posts
    4,132

    Huh.

    [QUOTE=cr726;2664997]The majority of your funding is taxes and I think that was the point. I don't think it really matters where the taxes are coming from the citizens are paying.[/QUOTE]

    So anything paid for through taxes is "socialized"?

    Guess I missed that lecture in my 20th century isms class.

    Please, please, learn what Socialism IS before commenting one way or the other about it.

  14. #34
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    greenwich village, NYC
    Posts
    8,169
    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;2665332]So anything paid for through taxes is "socialized"?

    Guess I missed that lecture in my 20th century isms class.

    Please, please, learn what Socialism IS before commenting one way or the other about it.[/QUOTE]

    Since when is socialism as a principle exclusive to federal government? A city-state could be socialistic, or one of our own states, if we were still a confederation. cr is correct. If the economy is centrally operated by a governmental entity through taxation, it fits the definition of being socialistic. Fire departments are government services in most places, although they could be privatized or completely voluntary.

  15. #35
    [QUOTE=acepepe;2664271]two truths
    1. we have the BEST heath care and hospitals in the world (if you want to argue this point why do people come from all over the world to go to our hospitals?
    2. NO ONE is denied heathcare in this country including illegals. some may wait longer then others, but they are treated.[/QUOTE]

    They come here because we have the best doctors. We have the best doctors because were willing to pay them ridiculous salaries.

    No One is denied healthcare??? Are you sure? Maybe in an ER setting that may be the case due to legal obligations. But why dont you ask all the people who are getting denied by insurance companies because of their pre existing conditions about that.

  16. #36
    [QUOTE=SantanaMoss83;2665367]They come here because we have the best doctors. We have the best doctors because were willing to pay them ridiculous salaries.

    No One is denied healthcare??? Are you sure? Maybe in an ER setting that may be the case due to legal obligations. But why dont you ask all the people who are getting denied by insurance companies because of their pre existing conditions about that.[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE=Warfish;2665053]I agree. If you can find me defending the Republican Party in that post, I'll be impressed....because I didn't.



    Won't get an argument from me about the worthlessness of the vast majority of our elected officials. But as long as the option is "Party R or Party D" only, I see no change coming. As long as eveyone thinks a third party has no chance, they're right....it doesn't.



    I am not a fan.[/[/COLOR]

    [COLOR="black"][COLOR="Red"]nor am i[/COLOR][/COLOR]
    Last edited by acepepe; 08-04-2008 at 09:44 AM.

  17. #37
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Long Island & Section 337
    Posts
    4,859
    [QUOTE=SantanaMoss83;2665367]They come here because we have the best doctors. We have the best doctors because were willing to pay them [B]ridiculous salaries[/B].

    No One is denied healthcare??? Are you sure? Maybe in an ER setting that may be the case due to legal obligations. But why dont you ask all the people who are getting denied by insurance companies because of their pre existing conditions about that.[/QUOTE]

    I'd like to see these "ridiculous salaries". Definitely not among primary care doctors.

    And yes, I am sure no one is denied necessary healthcare. See it everyday.

  18. #38
    [QUOTE=SantanaMoss83;2665367]They come here because we have the best doctors. We have the best doctors because were willing to pay them ridiculous salaries.

    No One is denied healthcare??? Are you sure? Maybe in an ER setting that may be the case due to legal obligations. But why dont you ask all the people who are getting denied by insurance companies because of their pre existing conditions about that.[/QUOTE]

    And scocialized healthcare will make it better? No disrepect intended, but get real

  19. #39
    All Pro
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    greenwich village, NYC
    Posts
    8,169
    [QUOTE=HDCentStOhio;2665375]I'd like to see these "ridiculous salaries". Definitely not among primary care doctors.

    [B]And yes, I am sure no one is denied necessary healthcare.[/B] See it everyday.[/QUOTE]

    [I]Many U.S. adults with chronic illness are uninsured By Anne Harding
    Mon Aug 4, 5:23 PM ET



    An estimated 11.4 million Americans with at least one chronic illness have no health insurance, new research published in the Annals of Internal Medicine shows.

    These people are much less likely to have a regular place to get medical care, much less likely to have seen a doctor in the past year, and much more likely to use the emergency room than chronically ill people who are insured, Dr. Andrew P. Wilper and colleagues from Cambridge Health Alliance/Harvard Medical School in Cambridge, Massachusetts, found.

    "Primary care doctors know that people who don't have access to health care due to health insurance suffer," Wilper, who is now with the University of Washington School of Medicine in Seattle, told Reuters Health. "We wanted to study that issue and bring public attention to it."

    He and his colleagues analyzed data from the National Health and Nutritional Examination Survey for 1999-2004, which included 12,486 men and women 18 to 64 years old. Based on this nationally representative sample, they calculated that 16.1 percent of people with heart disease, 15.5 percent of those with high blood pressure, and 16.6 percent of diabetics are uninsured.

    Among the uninsured, 22.6 percent had not visited a physician in the previous 12 months, compared to 16.2 percent of insured chronically ill people.

    The corresponding percentages for those lacking a regular site receiving health care were 22.6 percent and 6.2 percent, and for those using the emergency room for regular care the numbers were 7.1 percent and 1.1 percent.

    After the researchers adjusted for age, gender and race or ethnicity, they found that the chronically ill uninsured patients were four to six times more likely than sick patients with insurance to have these access problems.

    People with chronic illnesses who don't receive regular medical care run the risk of "catastrophic consequences," Wilper said.

    For example, individuals whose diabetes isn't under control may wind up on dialysis for the rest of their lives, or need to have a limb amputated. Improving access to care could "prolong their life and prevent disabling complications and a lot of needless suffering," he added.

    In an editorial accompanying Wilper's study, Dr. Marshall H. Chin of the University of Chicago writes, "Health care insurance reform is necessary for good care for chronic disease." However, he adds, it won't be enough until efforts are made to tackle disparities in health care.

    Wilper noted that while both US presidential candidates are talking about health care reform, neither has a plan that will solve the issue of inadequate access to health care among chronically ill Americans. "Regardless of who wins the presidential election, for example, we won't see the problem that we defined here go away."

    SOURCE: Annals of Internal Medicine, August 5, 2008.[/I]

  20. #40
    Hall Of Fame
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Long Island & Section 337
    Posts
    4,859
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2664787]I didn't sneak in anything. The point is that for the vast majority of procedures, hospitals are trying to make a buck just like any other business. They don't routinely give away expensive procedures unless they are mandated to do so, or they receive city, state, or federal moneys and part of the bargain is to provide emergent services in return. You know that very well, and you know that there are [B]about 75 million [/B]Americans who are uninsured. American healthcare is fragmented and hardly for "everybody." If that was the case, we wouldn't be discussing the need for some form of nationalized managment of care and broadened eligibility.[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2666584][I]Many U.S. adults with chronic illness are uninsured By Anne Harding
    Mon Aug 4, 5:23 PM ET



    An estimated [B]11.4 million [/B]Americans with at least one chronic illness have no health insurance, new research published in the Annals of Internal Medicine shows.

    SOURCE: Annals of Internal Medicine, August 5, 2008.[/I][/QUOTE]

    Quite a difference.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Follow Us