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Thread: National Healthcare

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=HDCentStOhio;2667086]Quite a difference.[/QUOTE]

    Absolutely, given that my 75 million figure was completely wrong in the first place. It should have been 47 million, but somewhere I got 75 in my head and should have slowed down and thought before throwing it out there. Yup, I just flip-flopped like my messiah, Hussein Osama-Obama ;)

    The 11.5 million figure is for those who have been diagnosed with at least one "serious chronic condition."

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2667143]Absolutely, given that my 75 million figure was completely wrong in the first place. It should have been 47 million, but somewhere I got 75 in my head and should have slowed down and thought before throwing it out there. Yup, I just flip-flopped like my messiah, Hussein Osama-Obama ;)

    The 11.5 million figure is for those who have been diagnosed with at least one "serious chronic condition."[/QUOTE]

    Glad we clarified the numbers. Wishful thinking on your part.;)

    Another thing that is not discussed by the politicians who advocate for a "national health plan" is the fact that our resources are not able to handle the onslaught. From personal experience, I can say that medicaid patients take up many more resources than traditional insured. And it is not just because "they are sicker and have been neglected". They call more, for innocuous symptoms such as a cold. They no-show more in the office, (forget about collecting a no-show charge from them), taking away a potential visit for someone else. They come to the office more (perhaps because they don't have to go to work and medicaid will pick up their taxi fare), again for things that could be handled with self care or OTC's. How many times have I had to write scripts for Tylenol because "medicaid will pay for it"? These bogus visits take away time and access for others. This will get 10 times worse under a "national health plan".

  3. #43
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    [QUOTE=HDCentStOhio;2667170]Glad we clarified the numbers. Wishful thinking on your part.;)

    Another thing that is not discussed by the politicians who advocate for a "national health plan" is the fact that our resources are not able to handle the onslaught. From personal experience, I can say that medicaid patients take up many more resources than traditional insured. And it is not just because "they are sicker and have been neglected". They call more, for innocuous symptoms such as a cold. They no-show more in the office, (forget about collecting a no-show charge from them), taking away a potential visit for someone else. They come to the office more (perhaps because they don't have to go to work and medicaid will pick up their taxi fare), again for things that could be handled with self care or OTC's. How many times have I had to write scripts for Tylenol because "medicaid will pay for it"? These bogus visits take away time and access for others. This will get 10 times worse under a "national health plan".[/QUOTE]

    I'm not convinced it will get 10 times worse, as medicaid patients tend to be unemployed, less structured, often much less educated, and unfortunately, all too often not responsible in a whole variety of ways and they are already in the system. The patients who are likely to be included under a broader healthcare net are people who are the "working poor" or those who are employed in small companies that don't provide healthcare coverage, as well as the children of these people. People who are employed are much more likely to show up for scheduled appointments and are not going to abuse the system with unnecessary visits, as it is too costly to do so. Also, one would hope that if someone is insured, they will get regular check-ups and preventive advice rather than over-burdening the ERs when they are in crisis. Hospitals will actually benefit from increased patient access if the patients are covered by some form of insurance. But the crux of any plan will be to root out inefficiencies and waste. There's an enormous amount of that in our current system.

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2665296]Oh those poor poor oppressed doctors. So sad. <sniff>

    This country is also full of hard working people who just can't afford to fork over $175 a week in family health care costs. Didja ever think of that? Did you ever think that if maybe ******* doctors and hospitals stopped charging us 400 bucks for a q-tip, maybe some more of us could afford health care? Care to guess how many billing error me and my wife found when we had our last kid?

    Everyone is against malpractice lawsuits until it's their kid dead on the operating table.[/QUOTE]

    The kid is dead on the operating table because the doctor followed the book and didn't use his judgement and take a chance to save the kid's life for fear of being sued.

    If doctors and hospitals are private then shop around for ones that don't charge $400 for a Q tip. Unless $400 becomes the government's fixed price in a national healthcare plan. I prefer some level of competition.

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=SantanaMoss83;2665367]
    No One is denied healthcare??? Are you sure? Maybe in an ER setting that may be the case due to legal obligations. But why dont you ask all the people who are getting denied by insurance companies because of their pre existing conditions about that.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah...I am sure...because I take care of them GRATIS every night I am on call.

    And, go out and get a DUI, and then try and get Auto Insurance...let me know how your quote for auto 'insurance' works out.

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2665296]This country is also full of hard working people who just can't afford to fork over $175 a week in family health care costs. Didja ever think of that? Did you ever think that if maybe ******* doctors and hospitals stopped charging us 400 bucks for a q-tip, maybe some more of us could afford health care? Care to guess how many billing error me and my wife found when we had our last kid?

    Everyone is against malpractice lawsuits until it's their kid dead on the operating table.[/QUOTE]

    I'm tired of hearing about 'hard working' people that can't afford sh*t personally...I work hard, pay more in taxes per year that most people in this country make in 2-3 years in salary, and still I get sh*t. How many 'hard working people' in this country work 70 hours a week? Holidays? weekends? nights?

    And as far as malpractice goes...prove that I was egregious in action caring for someone and I'll pay up...but humans are not f*cking automobiles or computers, and Doctors are not God...people die...every f*cking day...young, old, middle aged. It's a fact of life.

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=Greenwave81;2668988]I'm tired of hearing about 'hard working' people that can't afford sh*t personally...I work hard, pay more in taxes per year that most people in this country make in 2-3 years in salary, and still I get sh*t. How many 'hard working people' in this country work 70 hours a week? Holidays? weekends? nights?

    And as far as malpractice goes...prove that I was egregious in action caring for someone and I'll pay up...but humans are not f*cking automobiles or computers, and Doctors are not God...people die...every f*cking day...young, old, middle aged. It's a fact of life.[/QUOTE]

  8. #48
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    [QUOTE=Greenwave81;2668988]I'm tired of hearing about 'hard working' people that can't afford sh*t personally...I work hard, pay more in taxes per year that most people in this country make in 2-3 years in salary, and still I get sh*t. How many 'hard working people' in this country work 70 hours a week? Holidays? weekends? nights?

    [/QUOTE]

    Spoken like a typical self righteous doctor.

    Guess what, buddy. I work 70 hours a week and weekends and holidays and nights. So quit your damn bellyaching like you are the only profession in the world that is "on-call" and has to work odd hours. We all do buddy.

    I don't give a **** how much you make and I don't give a **** how much you pay in taxes. The more you make the more taxes you pay. That's just simple arithmetic.

    People in this country are having a hard time affording medical insurance. That is a fact. You cannot rationalize it by telling us how hard you work and how much you pay in taxes. There are some good people out there who just cannot afford coverage. But people like you would rather send money to Iraq to help those people build hospitals that to help your fellow citizens. Why do Republicans love Iraqizoids more than they do Americans? Why? Sad....

  9. #49
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    I have trouble affording a Plumber. I wonder of Obama will offer Universal Plumber Care too...

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2669151]I have trouble affording a Plumber. I wonder of Obama will offer Universal Plumber Care too...[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, that's really a good analogy. Imagine if you had a seven year old daughter and she's got a bad valve in her heart. The cost of surgery will be 60K. You're uninsured, not because you're a slacker, or a parasite, but because you were not a great student and you have an average blue-collar job that makes 30K a year for a small company. You struggle to make your car payments, your mortgage, and you don't go on fancy vacations. 60K out of pocket will probably mean financial terror for years to come. No question you get her the surgery. No question you probably paid 30K too much because the hospital will rape you with charges that will simply stun you when you get the final bill. Then they'll come after you with creditors and make your life very unpleasant if you miss a few payments... that's all if you could get a 60K loan against your mortgage....

    Yeah, that's really a great system. How could we ever be so foolish as to want something different? :rolleyes:

  11. #51
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2669176]Yeah, that's really a good analogy.[/QUOTE]

    It was a joke at Plumber. Lighten up Francis.:rolleyes:

    When the State decides you are not important enough, or too sick, or some other excuse the monolithic National heathcare beaurocracy come up with to not cover the drug or service YOU need, I expect you to come back and tell us how right they were.

    The State, after all, knows best. Who are we mere mortals to want freedom of choice. The State should tell me what care I deserve. All Hail the State!

  12. #52
    [QUOTE=acepepe;2664271]two truths
    1. we have the BEST heath care and hospitals in the world (if you want to argue this point why do people come from all over the world to go to our hospitals?
    2. NO ONE is denied heathcare in this country including illegals. some may wait longer then others, but they are treated.[/QUOTE]i like my medical coverage just fine.it works for me.

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2669176] Imagine if you had a seven year old daughter and she's got a bad valve in her heart. The cost of surgery will be 60K.[/quote]

    Where the State will deny the surgery because it's too expensive and too risky for a young child, and will instead prescribe....Tylenol. Because the State knows best.

    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2669176]You're uninsured, not because you're a slacker, or a parasite, but because you were not a great student and you have an average blue-collar job that makes 30K a year for a small company. You struggle to make your car payments, your mortgage, and you don't go on fancy vacations.[/quote]

    Really? Thats not far from what I make, and I am fully insured, don't struggle at all, and go on Vacation three times a year (to the local Beaches).

    Maybe the problem isn;t the amount of money one makes, but what they do with it, eh? And the choices they make (having a child if they cannot afford it, for example).


    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2669176]60K out of pocket will probably mean financial terror for years to come. No question you get her the surgery.[/quote]

    Oh, there is INDEED a question, especially in teh State Run System. If you think such a thing would automatically get approved, you're living in a fantasy world with Rainbow Brite and the Carebears.

    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2669176]No question you probably paid 30K too much because the hospital will rape you with charges that will simply stun you when you get the final bill.[/quote]

    Rofl, and the Monolithic State System will be soooooo much more efficient, right? Just like Government is in all the other things they do, like......oh, right.:rolleyes:

    And when the bottom-of-his-class Government Doctor screws up, and your daughter dies on the table due to error, guess what.......no suing the Government (if you think they won't cover THAt loophole, you are again living ina fantasy land).

    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2669176]Then they'll come after you with creditors and make your life very unpleasant if you miss a few payments... that's all if you could get a 60K loan against your mortgage....[/quote]

    Ever see what the IRS does if you don't pay "your fair share"?

    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2669176]Yeah, that's really a great system. How could we ever be so foolish as to want something different? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    People often want something "different", to make up for their own personal shortcomings.

  14. #54
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2669176]Yeah, that's really a good analogy. Imagine if you had a seven year old daughter and she's got a bad valve in her heart. The cost of surgery will be 60K. You're uninsured, not because you're a slacker, or a parasite, but because you were not a great student and you have an average blue-collar job that makes 30K a year for a small company. You struggle to make your car payments, your mortgage, and you don't go on fancy vacations. 60K out of pocket will probably mean financial terror for years to come. No question you get her the surgery. No question you probably paid 30K too much because the hospital will rape you with charges that will simply stun you when you get the final bill. Then they'll come after you with creditors and make your life very unpleasant if you miss a few payments... that's all if you could get a 60K loan against your mortgage....

    Yeah, that's really a great system. How could we ever be so foolish as to want something different? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]jesus you are one depressing blogger,...the cup is always half empty isn't it..we had a similar situation a couple of years back in my neighborhood .blocked raised $11,000 casinos for the family.not one person on block asked for a dime back.

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2669176]Yeah, that's really a good analogy. Imagine if you had a seven year old daughter and she's got a bad valve in her heart. The cost of surgery will be 60K. You're uninsured, not because you're a slacker, or a parasite, but because you were not a great student and[B] you have an average blue-collar job that makes 30K a year for a small company.[/B] You struggle to make your car payments, your mortgage, and you don't go on fancy vacations. 60K out of pocket will probably mean financial terror for years to come. No question you get her the surgery. No question you probably paid 30K too much because the hospital will rape you with charges that will simply stun you when you get the final bill. Then they'll come after you with creditors and make your life very unpleasant if you miss a few payments... that's all if you could get a 60K loan against your mortgage....

    Yeah, that's really a great system. How could we ever be so foolish as to want something different? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]In your example the child would be covered, she meets medicaid eligibility requirements. No need for nationalized healthcare, her surgery is paid for.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2669176]Yeah, that's really a good analogy. Imagine if you had a seven year old daughter and she's got a bad valve in her heart. The cost of surgery will be 60K. You're uninsured, not because you're a slacker, or a parasite, but because you were not a great student and you have an average blue-collar job that makes 30K a year for a small company. You struggle to make your car payments, your mortgage, and you don't go on fancy vacations. 60K out of pocket will probably mean financial terror for years to come. No question you get her the surgery. No question you probably paid 30K too much because the hospital will rape you with charges that will simply stun you when you get the final bill. Then they'll come after you with creditors and make your life very unpleasant if you miss a few payments... that's all if you could get a 60K loan against your mortgage....

    Yeah, that's really a great system. How could we ever be so foolish as to want something different? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    What makes you think that in a nationalized system that they would approve of the surgery??? At least now YOU have the option to decide if you want to get the surgery....in your nationalized utopia its not going to be up to you...its going to be a board of government employees who will vote to see if you get the surgery. Plus..imagine what that process would be like trying to get procedures approved.
    Last edited by sec.101row23; 08-06-2008 at 02:33 PM.

  17. #57
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2669176]Yeah, that's really a good analogy. Imagine if you had a seven year old daughter and she's got a bad valve in her heart. The cost of surgery will be 60K. You're uninsured, not because you're a slacker, or a parasite, but because you were not a great student and you have an average blue-collar job that makes 30K a year for a small company. You struggle to make your car payments, your mortgage, and you don't go on fancy vacations. 60K out of pocket will probably mean financial terror for years to come. No question you get her the surgery. No question you probably paid 30K too much because the hospital will rape you with charges that will simply stun you when you get the final bill. Then they'll come after you with creditors and make your life very unpleasant if you miss a few payments... that's all if you could get a 60K loan against your mortgage....

    Yeah, that's really a great system. How could we ever be so foolish as to want something different? :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
    Texas childrens hospital or St judes medical center NEVER turn any child away. 2 examples off the top of my head(no morgage needed) play that tune on the upper east side.

  18. #58
    [QUOTE=sec.101row23;2669587]What makes you think that in a nationalized system that they would approve of the surgery??? At least now YOU have the option to decide if you want to get the surgery....in your nationalized utopia its not going to be up to you...its going to be a board of government employees who will vote to see if you get the surgery. Plus..imagine what that process would be like trying to get procedures approved.[/QUOTE]

    It vil Be nirvana for aal de vorker's. except for govt employees and the rich who will still get better healthcare. scocialism sucks, so does Marksism Barack was schooled by a marksist and hung out with them. vote no B.O.

  19. #59
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    [QUOTE=sec.101row23;2669587]What makes you think that in a nationalized system that they would approve of the surgery??? At least now YOU have the option to decide if you want to get the surgery....in your nationalized utopia its not going to be up to you...its going to be a board of government employees who will vote to see if you get the surgery. Plus..imagine what that process would be like trying to get procedures approved.[/QUOTE]

    As I've said repeatedly, I'm NOT advocating a national health system in the form of Britain, France, or Canada. I AM advocating a broadening of availability of health care plans to as many Americans as possible (i.e., opening the Federal Benefits package to individuals and small employers who will be more likely to afford offering health care given the volume discounts.) The good thing about such an option is that the government can mandate that no participating provider can exclude for pre-existing conditions and can monitor standards of providers as they do now. It would be a federal/private hybrid, with care still provided by private physicians and hospitals. In additon, the government should be a broker and negotiator with pharmaceuticals re prescription pricing, as they do via the VA system. We have the cheapest rates in the US due to the fact that we are the biggest healthcare system by far and can again get volume discounting. Those two initiatives would substantially reduce the number of uninsured and keep the added cost of expansion to a minimum since small employers could contribute.

  20. #60
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2670421]As I've said repeatedly, I'm NOT advocating a national health system in the form of Britain, France, or Canada. I AM advocating a broadening of availability of health care plans to as many Americans as possible (i.e., opening the Federal Benefits package to individuals and small employers who will be more likely to afford offering health care given the volume discounts.) The good thing about such an option is that the government can mandate that no participating provider can exclude for pre-existing conditions and can monitor standards of providers as they do now. It would be a federal/private hybrid, with care still provided by private physicians and hospitals. In additon, the government should be a broker and negotiator with pharmaceuticals re prescription pricing, as they do via the VA system. We have the cheapest rates in the US due to the fact that we are the biggest healthcare system by far and can again get volume discounting. Those two initiatives would substantially reduce the number of uninsured and keep the added cost of expansion to a minimum since small employers could contribute.[/QUOTE]i don't nesecarily disagree with you on negotiating prices.saw a piece on fox news that said the same.

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