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Thread: "Gang of 10" Energy Compromise

  1. #21
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2675101]First, let me say I do not care if the tax break is removed. Frankly, too many folks have too many tax breaks, which is part of our whole tax problem in the U.S. So if they loose a break, fine, just understand that we (the consumer) will be paying for it when the Oil Companies pass along the tax burden to us at the pump.

    But with that said......."Big Oil" is OBVIOUSLY a Manufacturer. Unless your car can run on pure crude, your home heater on pure crude, etc, etc, etc, they are, in most cases, indeed manufacturing something.

    A parallel claim would be "That woodworking guy isn't a manufacter". Like Big Oil he takes a natural resource (wood/oil) and manufacturers something better out of it (a chair/gasoline).

    In toehr words, most of "Big Oil" doesn;t just drill, they refine what they drill as well. Hence why they (rightfully) qualify for whatever tax credits exist for "manufacturers".

    Seems pretty logical to me.[/QUOTE]

    In the literal sense, you are correct. And it is the literal sense that created this loophole, of course

    But the "manufacturing sector" is very well defined in the business/government realm, and by financial analysts, to not include energy companies, in the same way it does not include farmers, artists and newspaper publishers, who all "manufacture" various products but are not considered "maufacturers" by the people who classify such things.

    In any event, Warfish, what do you think of this particular compromise?

  2. #22
    Veteran
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Portland Oregon
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    As far as the eternal 10 compromise? Securing America's Energy Future. Sounds like there plan is to move to more efficient gas guzzler's. More of the same but instead ethanol. If the 7.5 billion for retooling is for more efficient gas guzzler's IMO they are not going far enough. Sounds like special interest involved in Securing Americas Energy Future.

    7.5 billion for batteries is good.

    As far as the oil companies we are partners with them just like the banks, farmers and auto companies. If they start to go broke we bail them out. If they make profits we get more taxes. If they make an offensive profit, we should take more money from them. We bail em out in the tuff times and should share in the profits in the good times. If this is nationalization then this is what we already do.

    Good statistic to know about Exxon making 70 percent of their profits outside the US. :yes:

  3. #23
    [QUOTE]On Friday, 10 senators -- five Democrats and five Republicans -- announced legislation to open to drilling additional acreage in the Gulf of Mexico off Florida's western coast. The legislation would allow Virginia, North Carolina, South Carolina and Georgia to "opt in" to allowing drilling off their shores if their legislatures approve.[/quote]

    I think off-shore drilling should be a state issue anyway, not Fed!
    [quote]

    At the same time, the bill would raise billions of dollars for various conservation and energy-efficiency programs by making oil companies no longer eligible for a manufacturing tax credit. Some estimates have put the potential savings from such a move at $13 billion over 10 years.[/quote]

    I doubt the oil companies will squawk about this b/c $.01/gal increase in price will cover this.
    [quote]
    The manufacturing tax credit seeks to encourage job creation in the U.S. by giving a tax break to all domestic manufacturers that produce goods in the country, including oil companies.[/quote]
    There's why oil companies get this tax credit!
    [quote]
    Asked whether Sen. Obama's comments signal an intention to support a relaxation of the ban, an Obama campaign spokesman said, "He welcomes this compromise as a first, bipartisan step....If a group of senators come to him with a good-faith effort to solve a major challenge like this one that contains some steps he doesn't like, he's not going to reject it out of hand." [/quote]

    If the compromise adds a fine for underinflated tires, he'll be for it! :rofl:
    [quote]
    Although Sen. Obama said he remained "skeptical" that new offshore drilling would reduce gas prices in the short term, his comments opened the door to working with the group. He said he welcomed "the establishment of a process that will allow us to make future drilling decisions based on science and fact."[/quote]

    Well, duh!! That's a no-brainer! But new offshore drilling can have an effect on gas prices in 5 years! How are drilling decisions made now? Flipping a coin?
    :rofl:

    [quote]
    In a bid for the support of Rust Belt lawmakers, the legislation would steer $7.5 billion to help auto makers and auto-parts makers retool [/quote]

    If unions hadn't forced such asinine wage concessions on auto makers, they wouldn't need more corporate subsidies!


    [/QUOTE]

  4. #24
    flushingjet
    Guest
    [quote=nuu faaola;2670509]I'll go first.

    I like this deal.

    My main aversion to drilling --aside from the environmental impact, which seems somewhat limited by the relatively narrow scope of the areas being opened up-- is that (1) I don't think it'll really amount to much price relief and (2) I fear it is a distraction from the real challenge/opportunity of alternative energy that actually can impact prices.

    This bill puts some serious money behind those causes, and it does it without a "windfall profits tax" which I have said is probably the dumbest idea Obama has put forth.

    Also, I do not understand how oil companies --which are plainly not manufacturers-- were receiving $13 billion in manufacturing tax credits. The challenges faced by manufacturers --and, presumably, that inspired this tax credit-- clearly are not afflicting oil companies.

    That's just stupid and is a loophole that obviously ought to be closed.[/quote]


    Oil companies are most certainly manufacturers in that they operate domestic refineries and plants. In addition to the familiar oil/gas related products they also have extensive chemical/plastics businesses,
    in addition to providing source materials to other manufacturers.

    [URL]http://www.ogj.com/index.cfm[/URL]

    They certainly have challenges of complying with many environmental regulations and federal and state laws.

    Pulling those manufacturing credits will only disincent them.

    As B Hussein (no apologies to over-sensitive emo quasi-lib pukes-and you idiots know who you are-for using the messiah's middle name) said a week ago now America is laughing at his inflate the tires energy policy

    "I do welcome the establishment of a process that will allow us to make future drilling decisions based on science and fact"

    Fact is, if you reference the last time a "windfall" gouge was imposed by Democrats on Big Oil, it didnt work out as they had schemed:

    [URL]http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/show/1168.html[/URL]

    Rather, those companies should be charged the property royalty rate to the Govt for drilling contracts that Bubba screwed up on, and some % more for new drilling thats allowed.
    Last edited by flushingjet; 08-08-2008 at 10:06 AM.

  5. #25
    I want what is best for America, not just Democrats, Republicans but all of us! I am tired of the wizzing contest!

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