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Thread: Remember when Kerry said he wanted terrorism to be a "nuisance"...

  1. #1

    Remember when Kerry said he wanted terrorism to be a "nuisance"...

    ... and Bush et al. called him "naive" and "dangerous."

    I find it interesting that reducing terrorism to a "nuisance" is now the Bush Admin's official policy:

    [QUOTE]New Pentagon Report Uses Language Kerry Used in 2004 that Bush-Cheney Called "Dangerous" and "Naive"
    August 07, 2008 9:12 PM

    In October 2004, Sen. John Kerry, D-Mass., then the Democratic presidential nominee, was asked by the New York Times Magazine, what it would take for Americans to feel safe again:

    ''We have to get back to the place we were, where terrorists are not the focus of our lives, but they're a nuisance. As a former law-enforcement person, I know we're never going to end prostitution. We're never going to end illegal gambling. But we're going to reduce it, organized crime, to a level where it isn't on the rise. It isn't threatening people's lives every day, and fundamentally, it's something that you continue to fight, but it's not threatening the fabric of your life."

    As you may recall, Republicans pounced.

    "Nuisance"…"law enforcement"…these words meant Kerry didn't get it, they said.

    "Senator Kerry talked of reducing terrorism to - quote - 'nuisance' - end quote - and compared it to prostitution and illegal gambling," President Bush said. "See, I couldn't disagree more. Our goal is not to reduce terror to some acceptable level of nuisance. Our goal is to defeat terror by staying on the offensive, destroying terrorists, and spreading freedom and liberty around the world."

    [B]Bush-Cheney also went after Kerry for using 'nuisance' as pertains to terrorism in a TV ad.

    "Nor can we think of our goal in this war in the way Senator Kerry described it yesterday in The New York Times," said Vice President Dick Cheney. "Quote: 'We have to get back to the place,' he said, where terrorism is 'a nuisance,' sort of like - and these are his comparisons — sort of like gambling and prostitution. This is naive and dangerous."

    But Bush and Cheney's Secretary of Defense, Robert Gates, unveiled a National Defense Strategy this week that sounds quite similar to what Kerry said.[/B]

    Writes the Pentagon report: "The struggle against violent extremists will not end with a single battle or campaign. Rather, we will defeat them through the patient accumulation of quiet successes and the orchestration of all elements of national and international power. We will succeed by eliminating the ability of extremists to strike globally and catastrophically while also building the capacity and resolve of local governments to defeat them regionally. [B]Victory will include discrediting extremist ideology, creating fissures between and among extremist groups and reducing them to the level of nuisance groups that can be tracked and handled by law enforcement capabilities."[/B]

    You catch that?

    "Victory will include discrediting extremist ideology, creating fissures between and among extremist groups and reducing them to the level of nuisance groups that can be tracked and handled by law enforcement capabilities."

    How does that square with what President Bush said in 2004, that "our goal is not to reduce terror to some acceptable level of nuisance"?

    One other word that pops up in the Pentagon doc that Kerry used and Bush-Cheney mocked: "sensitive."

    Kerry Statement at the Unity 2004 Conference in Washington: "I believe I can fight a more effective, more thoughtful, more strategic, more proactive, more sensitive war on terror that reaches out to other nations and brings them to our side."

    Vice President Dick Cheney resonded thusly in Dayton, Ohio: "America has been in too many wars for any of our wishes, but not a one of them was won by being sensitive… A sensitive war will not destroy the evil men who killed 3,000 Americans and who seek the chemical, nuclear and biological weapons to kill hundreds of thousands more. The men who beheaded Daniel Pearl and Paul Johnson will not be impressed by our sensitivity."

    And now here's Secretary Gates in his National Defense Strategy:

    “Countering the totalitarian ideological message of terrorist groups to help further undermine their potency will also require sensitive, sophisticated and integrated interagency and international efforts”

    Do the President and Vice President think their Secretary of Defense has a view of the world that's dangerous and nave?

    Or did they never really think that about Kerry?[/QUOTE]

    I will say this, Gates is the best appointment Bush has made. He is clearly competent --the surge, whatever one thinks of the larger strategy, was indisputably well executed-- and exudes a thoughtfulness and sense of the larger strategic picture that is basically the polar opposite of his predecessor, the sneeringly incompetent Donald Rumsfeld.

    If Obama wins, I think he should keep Gates at Defense.

  2. #2
    A more interesting topic, IMO, is the Trial of Bin ladens Bodyguard/Driver.

    I hear on the radio this morning he was found guilty, and sentenced to 5 1/2 years,a nd was then given credit for time-served.

    Meaning this AQ Member, Terrorist and personal servant of OBL will be free.....in ~ 5 months.

    Judge for yourself the wisdom of that.

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2677235]A more interesting topic, IMO, is the Trial of Bin ladens Bodyguard/Driver.

    I hear on the radio this morning he was found guilty, and sentenced to 5 1/2 years,a nd was then given credit for time-served.

    Meaning this AQ Member, Terrorist and personal servant of OBL will be free.....in ~ 5 months.

    Judge for yourself the wisdom of that.[/QUOTE]

    Aren't you the guy always telling us to start a new topic? Your post certainly merits it.

  4. #4
    Indeed, good point Nuu. Sadly, I cannot find an article on my topic on either CNN or FOX, and prefer not to start a new thread based only on an unverifyable radio-report.

    On your topic, I still disagree with the idea that Terrorism in the Form of Islamic Extremism can be reduced to a simple "nuisance" to be solely handled in the same legal way as jaywalking or shoplifting. Hence why I tied in an issue related (the legal way we're handlign the bodyguard/drivers trial) to your topic.

    But I apologize for my slight derailment.

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2677319]Indeed, good point Nuu. Sadly, I cannot find an article on my topic on either CNN or FOX, and prefer not to start a new thread based only on an unverifyable radio-report.

    On your topic, I still disagree with the idea that Terrorism in the Form of Islamic Extremism can be reduced to a simple "nuisance" to be solely handled in the same legal way as jaywalking or shoplifting. Hence why I tied in an issue related (the legal way we're handlign the bodyguard/drivers trial) to your topic.

    But I apologize for my slight derailment.[/QUOTE]

    I think what Gates means --and what Kerry meant-- is that, in terms of frequency, it gets reduced to "nuisance" level. You can never completely eradicate a tactic. All it takes is one person to wake up in the morning and decided to conduct some form of terrorism and you've failed. You can decrease the frequency the tactic gets used by using military force to break up the biggest networks, and then, after that, doing our best to discredit the ideology behind the tactic and, of course, to find out about and stop various attempts before they happen (via policework).

  6. #6
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    2004 Bush voters need any more reasons to know they made a mistake?

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    so we now want to reduce it to a nuisance huh?

    There hasn't been a terrorist act on American soil in 7 years, what is it now?

    oh thats right Cheney said the American people NEED another attack on US soil to wake us up to the threats that exist, gotcha

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2677235]A more interesting topic, IMO, is the Trial of Bin ladens Bodyguard/Driver.

    I hear on the radio this morning he was found guilty, and sentenced to 5 1/2 years,a nd was then given credit for time-served.

    Meaning this AQ Member, Terrorist and personal servant of OBL will be free.....in ~ 5 months.

    Judge for yourself the wisdom of that.[/QUOTE]


    From what I understand the "jury" asked if the driver would be given credit for time served and they were told "yes. He has already served 61 months." The 'jury' then came back with a sentence of 66 months.

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Buster;2677678]From what I understand the "jury" asked if the driver would be given credit for time served and they were told "yes. He has already served 61 months." The 'jury' then came back with a sentence of 66 months.[/QUOTE]

    And then he will be free to .. .drive more people around.

    What a joke that this taxi driver is the first AQ suspect tried.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2677693]And then he will be free to .. .drive more people around.

    What a joke that this taxi driver is the first AQ suspect tried.[/QUOTE]


    [URL="http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=93408956"]NPR[/URL]

    I believe he can still be held at the Presidents discretion after the 5 months is up.

    [QUOTE]
    U.S. Could Continue Holding Bin Laden Driver


    Morning Edition, August 8, 2008 The man who served as a driver for Osama bin Laden was sentenced to 5 1/2 years in prison, but with credit for time served, he may be eligible for release by the end of the year.

    NPR's John McChesney tells Steve Inskeep that despite the sentence given to Salim Hamdan by a U.S. military jury in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, the government could continue holding him. But defense lawyers don't believe that will happen because it would cause international outrage, McChesney says.

    "This guy has been tried, he's been given the sentence he's been given, and if the government tried to keep him past that 5 1/2 months, his defense team, which is very dedicated to him, would be all over them. And I don't think the administration wants to brook that kind of world reaction," McChesney says.

    The sentence was a rebuke to prosecutors, who wanted a much longer prison term.

    "They also got slapped down on the conspiracy charge, so they had a double defeat here in some ways," McChesney says.

    The conspiracy charge was considered the more serious of the two charges. Hamdan was acquitted of that but was convicted of material support of terrorism or a terrorist organization, and then the jury came back with the light sentence.

    In the courtroom, the defense team was jubilant.

    "Charlie Swift, who has had this case for five years, and Mr. Hamdan embraced. Mr. Hamdan raised his arms and gave a victory signal. The judge quite remarkably said, 'I hope Mr. Hamdan you're soon able to join your family in Yemen.' And Mr. Hamdan said, 'inshallah' ['God willing'] and the judge answered him 'inshallah.' It was an amazingly emotional scene."

    Reaction to the jury's decisions, and views of the legitimacy of the military commission system, vary widely, McChesney says.[/QUOTE]

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2677222]

    If Obama wins, I think he should keep Gates at Defense.[/QUOTE]

    I agree with you that Gates is probably the best appointment Bush has made - which isn't saying much.

    However, if by some miracle Obama actually wins the election I'd rather see Wesley Clark as the new Defense Secretary. The man is absolutely brilliant.

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    [QUOTE=VincenzoTestaverde;2677777]I agree with you that Gates is probably the best appointment Bush has made - which isn't saying much.

    However, if by some miracle Obama actually wins the election I'd rather see Wesley Clark as the new Defense Secretary. The man is absolutely brilliant.[/QUOTE]

    yes...wesley's brilliant...the same guy who doesn't know the difference between combatants and enemy combatants and compared the 9-11 hijackers to pirates....

    of course a report from the Sec'y of defense is comparable to the words of a presidential candidate....
    Last edited by Come Back to NY; 08-08-2008 at 04:40 PM.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2677693]And then he will be free to .. .drive more people around.

    What a joke that this taxi driver is the first AQ suspect tried.[/QUOTE]

    This post perfectly describes my issue with the Cops & Robbers ideal of Anti-Terrorism Policy.

    If you think this guy was "just a taxi driver" or that freeing him to return to AQ is a non-issue, well......well, I don't want to be rude Nuu, but I find such a position to be very foolish IMO.

    Such a position reeks of not taking a threat seriously.

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2677967]This post perfectly describes my issue with the Cops & Robbers ideal of Anti-Terrorism Policy.

    If you think this guy was "just a taxi driver" or that freeing him to return to AQ is a non-issue, well......well, I don't want to be rude Nuu, but I find such a position to be very foolish IMO.

    Such a position reeks of not taking a threat seriously.[/QUOTE]

    Clearly our government was unable to prove he was a significant threat to a panel of people hand picked by a Dick Cheney crony. He's a bottom-level clown of no strategic significance whatsoever, who had no role in the planning or execution of any attacks. Which is why they charged him of offering support (ie. rides) to a terrorist rather than charging him with being a terrorist.

    In any event, I am sure he will be monitored closely by the powers that be. Perhaps some useful intel will come from that in the unlikely event his old cronies try to use his services again.

  15. #15
    The gov't let out the fact that the driver cooperated with the gov't from the beginning. He is a dead man if he tries to go back to AQ.

    Cooperation is a key factor in sentencing.

    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2678026]Clearly our government was unable to prove he was a significant threat to a panel of people hand picked by a Dick Cheney crony. He's a bottom-level clown of no strategic significance whatsoever, who had no role in the planning or execution of any attacks. Which is why they charged him of offering support (ie. rides) to a terrorist rather than charging him with being a terrorist.

    In any event, I am sure he will be monitored closely by the powers that be. Perhaps some useful intel will come from that in the unlikely event his old cronies try to use his services again.[/QUOTE]

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=VincenzoTestaverde;2677777]I agree with you that Gates is probably the best appointment Bush has made - which isn't saying much.

    However, if by some miracle Obama actually wins the election I'd rather see Wesley Clark as the new Defense Secretary. The man is absolutely brilliant.[/QUOTE]


    [url]http://www.antiwar.com/orig/jatras12.html[/url]

    [url]http://www.forward.com/articles/top-dem-wesley-clark-says-ny-money-people-pu/[/url]

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2677967]If you think this guy was "just a taxi driver" or that freeing him to return to AQ is a non-issue, well......well, I don't want to be rude Nuu, but I find such a position to be very foolish IMO.
    [/QUOTE]

    Pssssttt. Warfish. Did you miss the part about the whole court case. The whole trial and everything. The part where they only found him guilty of being Bin Ladens driver.

    Shoot. I think we should publicly execute any member of any family who has EVER done business with ANY member of the Bin Laden family. Each and EVERY one of them. Bin Laden construction? Hang 'em high. Maybe "they" shouldn't of worked or done business with "those" people....

    Oh well...it'll make for a great pay-per-view event. Good riddance...
    Last edited by PlumberKhan; 08-09-2008 at 11:38 AM.

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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2677847]yes...wesley's brilliant...the same guy who doesn't know the difference between combatants and enemy combatants and compared the 9-11 hijackers to pirates....

    of course a report from the Sec'y of defense is comparable to the words of a presidential candidate....[/QUOTE]

    Conservatives hate Wesley Clark b/c he's not the typical liberal. He's a decorated Vietnam veteran (although most Republicans dodged the draft) and a 4 star General who won a war with not a single American death on his hands - unlike the current administration which can't win in Iraq despite getting over 4,000 of our soldiers killed and tens of thousands more maimed.

    People like Come Back to NY are the same people who idolize a chickenhawk like Dick Cheney who had 5 deferments from the Vietnam War but has no problem invading a coutnry unprovovked and getting thousands of our troops killed in the process.

    I'm sure if Clark becomes the VP candidate the conservatives will try to swift boat him too.
    Last edited by VincenzoTestaverde; 08-09-2008 at 11:23 AM.

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    [QUOTE=VincenzoTestaverde;2679527]People like Come Back to NY are the same people who idolize a chickenhawk like Dick Cheney who had 5 deferments from the Vietnam War but has no problem invading a coutnry unprovovked and getting thousands of our troops killed in the process.[/QUOTE]

    I heard CBtE and Cheney are close. Real close. But not too close. CBtE doesn't want to get shot in the face with a shotgun, and Cheney doesn't want end up in the middle of another republican sex scandal. So they keep some distance. :D

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    [QUOTE=VincenzoTestaverde;2679527]Conservatives hate Wesley Clark b/c he's not the typical liberal. He's a decorated Vietnam veteran (although most Republicans dodged the draft) and a 4 star General who won a war with not a single American death on his hands - unlike the current administration which can't win in Iraq despite getting over 4,000 of our soldiers killed and tens of thousands more maimed.

    People like Come Back to NY are the same people who idolize a chickenhawk like Dick Cheney who had 5 deferments from the Vietnam War but has no problem invading a coutnry unprovovked and getting thousands of our troops killed in the process.

    I'm sure if Clark becomes the VP candidate the conservatives will try to swift boat him too.[/QUOTE]

    never said I hated wesley clarke- just provided the facts, which as proven in other threads, have no place in your posts....

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