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Thread: Amazin' Youth Wins Ny Battle

  1. #1

    Amazin' Youth Wins Ny Battle

    AMAZIN' YOUTH WINS NY BATTLE

    By JOEL SHERMAN

    Posted: 3:08 am
    August 21, 2008

    DANIEL MURPHY came up with the bases loaded and two outs in the first inning. The Brave-Mets New York Mets game was scoreless.

    Atlanta's fine young starter Jair Jurrjens got ahead 1-2. But one piece of information we have learned about Murphy quickly is that he has some Wade Boggs in him. He is unflappable behind in the count. He again demonstrated extreme discipline in laying off the kind of just off-the-black changeup that will seduce even the most experienced hitters.

    "It was a good one," Murphy said. "It just wasn't a strike."

    So Murphy furthered the at-bat, and, on pitch No. 7, he delivered a two-run single. That sparked a five-run inning that propelled the Mets to a 6-3 triumph.

    The hit also helped make a winner of Mike Pelfrey Mike Pelfrey , who eliminated the need to include the Mets' shaky bullpen by delivering his first career complete game to take over the team lead in wins (12).

    So this game was yet another reminder that - forecasts to the contrary - the Mets' young players are outdoing their Yankee counterparts in 2008. That is among the reasons the Mets are in first place and the Yanks New York Yankees are barely hanging in the wild-card race.

    Pelfrey, at 24, is just 11 months older than Ian Kennedy. Yet while Pelfrey was becoming the first Mets hurler 24 or younger to win 12 games since Bobby Jones went 12-7 in his age-24 season in 1994, Kennedy was losing last night at Triple-A. The starting center-fielder behind him was Melky Cabrera, who hit so poorly this season that Johnny Damon was in center in Toronto on Tuesday night to mess up a game. Cabrera was flanked by Shelley Duncan, who was supposed to supply righty pop for the Yanks this season. Scranton/Wilkes-Barre is where a lot of 2008 Yankee dreams have gone to die this season.

    Robinson Cano isn't a batting champ as projected. He is a disappointment. The four young starters the Yanks were most counting upon this year - Kennedy, Phil Hughes, Jeff Marquez and Alan Horne - have tanked so badly physically and via performance that Carl Pavano likely will start a critical game Saturday. Hughes, Kennedy, Marquez and Cabrera were among the players the Yanks did not want to part with when they were first in line to obtain Johan Santana.

    That enabled the Mets to sneak in and land him despite not giving up Pelfrey. Nick Evans has joined Murphy in a left-field platoon bringing not only production, but energy. And for the record, both David Wright and Jose Reyes are younger than Cano, and Wright is definitely an MVP candidate, and Reyes will probably be part of the discussion, as well.

    When it comes to Kennedy and Hughes, the Yanks should actually take encouragement from Pelfrey. He was dreadful the past two seasons, including beginning 0-7 last year. He was not even sure to make the rotation this year. But he has grown up before our eyes, throwing that overpowering sinker with such conviction and success that Jerry Manuel said, "Mike has evolved into one of the bright young pitching stars of the National League."

    Though Murphy has played in just 19 games - and reached safely in 18 of them with a .491 on-base percentage - his disciplined batting eye and willingness to drive the ball with authority to left field strongly imply that he is going to be a successful hitter. "Remarkable," Carlos Delgado called Murphy's advanced approach for someone so young. "You can't teach what he already can do."

    Murphy appeared on no Top-100 - or even Top 300 - prospect lists before the season and Pelfrey - not Hughes or Kennedy - seemed the pitcher most likely to end up back at Triple-A. But here they both are playing major roles on a first-place team. The Yankee system got the praise, yet the Mets had enough pieces not only to land Santana, but to sprinkle their roster with youngsters thriving in late August.

    There are thirtysomething games left in the season, and the Mets are winning the battle of New York because - surprisingly - their twentysomethings have been more impressive.
    http://www.nypost.com/seven/08212008...tle_125373.htm

  2. #2
    Ron Darling put it nicely when he said the Mets may not have the "punch a players bio into a computer prospects" but instead they have guys that can simply play ball the right way and are MLB ready.

    Also nice touch by the writer in pointing out how young yet still elite both Wright and Reyes are. Hopefully we never hear the Cano vs Wright discussions that were mentioned in spring training here.

  3. #3
    cue...tyler, weaver fan, and guido in 5,4,3,.....

  4. #4
    I think two people deserve a lot of credit here.

    1) Jerry Manuel: Willie made it a point of playing vets over rookies while also burying the rookies in the bottom of the lineup. I remember when Wright came up he was batting like 7th the whole season despite his great hitting. I believe 100% Willie would not have squeezed the performance out of these kids like Manuel is doing.

    2) Omar: Despite all the hate the Mets farm system gets it keeps producing good players, not all are superstars but they are helping this team win and thats all that matters. Not to mention there a few guys who are ready to take the next step very soon: IE Niese, Kunz, Carp, F Mart, and Parnell.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonySerp View Post
    cue...tyler, weaver fan, and guido in 5,4,3,.....
    Yankee youngsters have been a huge dissapointment, with the exception of Joba. It can't be spun, Cano has been mediocre, and with his talent that is sad. Kennedy has been awful, Hughes hurt and perplexing, and if you take out the first 6 weeks of the season Melky has hit worse than my old milk man (and he's 84).

    I think the Yanks really miss having a few veterans who are really "In your face" kind of guys, guys who would help the young players along, but also let them know that you play the game 100% when you are in the bigs, not coasting at 75% effort.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by chirorob View Post
    Yankee youngsters have been a huge dissapointment, with the exception of Joba. It can't be spun, Cano has been mediocre, and with his talent that is sad. Kennedy has been awful, Hughes hurt and perplexing, and if you take out the first 6 weeks of the season Melky has hit worse than my old milk man (and he's 84).I think the Yanks really miss having a few veterans who are really "In your face" kind of guys, guys who would help the young players along, but also let them know that you play the game 100% when you are in the bigs, not coasting at 75% effort.


    I just spit my coffee all over the keyboard. LOL that is sig worthy right there.


    EDIT: Great post for 1K
    Last edited by Tony Danza; 08-21-2008 at 10:39 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnthonySerp View Post
    cue...tyler, weaver fan, and guido in 5,4,3,.....


    I'll be sure to bump this thread in about a year or 2

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Guido Monzino View Post


    I'll be sure to bump this thread in about a year or 2
    When a 28 year old Alan Horne gets called up?

    I swear, all I heard was the talk about this Alan Horne guy last year. Dude is 26 and got demoted to A ball.

    I do like Montero a lot though.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by JV51 View Post
    When a 28 year old Alan Horne gets called up?

    I swear, all I heard was the talk about this Alan Horne guy last year. Dude is 26 and got demoted to A ball.

    I do like Montero a lot though.
    No, when guys have had enough time to develop and prove themselves at the major league level. This is easily the stupidest article I have ever read.

    By the way, I know you guys will jump down my throat out of total denial, but can one of you tell me exactly why we're comparing Yankee prospects to Mets prospects? What does one have to do with the other? Besides the Mets fans inferiority complex? Again?

  10. #10

    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Guido Monzino View Post
    No, when guys have had enough time to develop and prove themselves at the major league level. This is easily the stupidest article I have ever read.

    By the way, I know you guys will jump down my throat out of total denial, but can one of you tell me exactly why we're comparing Yankee prospects to Mets prospects? What does one have to do with the other? Besides the Mets fans inferiority complex? Again?
    No one is comparing yankees to mets prospects. Sherman was just citing how the mets young guys have helped a lot unexpectedly while the yankees hype machine prospects have done nothing to help their team other then Justin and that's why they are in the position they are now.

    Also love Chad's post with what Ron said. Guys we have don't post the gaudy great stats but they stay healthy and are fundamentally sound.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Guido Monzino View Post
    No, when guys have had enough time to develop and prove themselves at the major league level. This is easily the stupidest article I have ever read.

    By the way, I know you guys will jump down my throat out of total denial, but can one of you tell me exactly why we're comparing Yankee prospects to Mets prospects? What does one have to do with the other? Besides the Mets fans inferiority complex? Again?
    OR...maybe its becuase the Yankees were changing their philosphy and going with the kids and this year it has pretty much backfired in their face while the young Mets players from the supposed worst, barren, dried up, drained out farm system in the league have come up and helped the Mets take off in the middle of pennant race. Just kind of Ironic isn't it?

    But I agree in that this is way too early to judge since even the Yankees seemed to believe at the begining of the season that this process would take at least one full year to really develop. We can see how it goes next year but for the 2008 season the Mets have clearly had the better group.


    Edit: Just found this and thought it was relevant.

    -- The Mets had been searching for corner outfield help, but now believe they will be fine thanks to the surprising contributions from Daniel Murphy, batting .429 (18-for-42) with two homers and nine RBIs in 16 games since he was called up from the minors, and with Ryan Church nearing a return from his rehab assignment. Murphy's .520 on-base percentage in August (through Aug. 18) was the best in baseball among players with at least 50 plate appearances since the month began. Manny Ramirez (.514) is second.
    Last edited by Tony Danza; 08-21-2008 at 11:44 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Guido Monzino View Post
    No, when guys have had enough time to develop and prove themselves at the major league level. This is easily the stupidest article I have ever read.

    By the way, I know you guys will jump down my throat out of total denial, but can one of you tell me exactly why we're comparing Yankee prospects to Mets prospects? What does one have to do with the other? Besides the Mets fans inferiority complex? Again?
    this is a yankee writer that wrote this

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Guido Monzino View Post
    No, when guys have had enough time to develop and prove themselves at the major league level. This is easily the stupidest article I have ever read.

    By the way, I know you guys will jump down my throat out of total denial, but can one of you tell me exactly why we're comparing Yankee prospects to Mets prospects? What does one have to do with the other? Besides the Mets fans inferiority complex? Again?

    Now who's sleeping? Have you not seen how hard Yankee prospects plus the likes of Cano, Melky etc have been pimped here and endlessly forced down everyones thoat?

    In the same breath statements saying the Mets had zero prospects were very popular from the usual suspects.

    If you really don't think this good humored jab is deserved you need to go back to sleep. The author even mentions that the Yanks should take note of how it took Pelfrey some time to become what the Mets thought he would and they should show the same patience with their kids.
    Last edited by chad101; 08-21-2008 at 03:41 PM.

  14. #14
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    Consider my inferiority complex placated for now.

  15. #15
    That's cool...

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by JV51 View Post
    When a 28 year old Alan Horne gets called up?

    I swear, all I heard was the talk about this Alan Horne guy last year. Dude is 26 and got demoted to A ball.

    I do like Montero a lot though.

    First of all he's 25 you jack ass, don't try and be cute, no one is laughing at you sarcasm. Ever head of injuries JV? Do you ever the slightest clue before you start talking? You and other have been hyping Mets players in the minors as well (specifically Joe Niese) Horne had Tommy John surgery early in his pro career, that is why he is older than most. Did you know that? Probably not. He was Eastern League (you know the most competitive league in the minors) pitcher of the year last season, you wouldn't be somewhat excited about that? and he has battled a bicep injury all season. Injuries they happen... there have been a boat load of them in 2008 in Yankeeland.

    Including all 4 pitchers JS mentioned in his article.
    Last edited by Tyler Durden; 08-21-2008 at 05:20 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    First of all he's 25 you jack ass, don't try and be cute, no one is laughing at you sarcasm. Ever head of injuries JV? Do you ever the slightest clue before you start talking? You and other have been hyping Mets players in the minors as well (specifically Joe Niese) Horne had Tommy John surgery early in his pro career, that is why he is older than most. Did you know that? Probably not. He was Eastern League (you know the most competitive league in the minors) pitcher of the year last season, you wouldn't be somewhat excited about that? and he has battled a bicep injury all season. Injuries they happen... there have been a boat load of them in 2008 in Yankeeland.

    Including all 4 pitchers JS mentioned in his article.
    Lol. Sean, calm down buddy.

    I honestly don't think Niese is anything being hyped up. He's not being called the best minor league pitching prospect. Hell, I'm not even sure if he was on any top 100 mid season lists. What I saw from Niese in spring training and a Bingo game on SNY I liked and the mets certainly do like since they didn't want to part with him at the trading deadline. He said today if he wanted Manny he would of had to part with 3 prospects, my guess (niese, parnell, carp/evans/murphy). I've seen one mets prospect site say he has Andy Pettite like upside but I don't believe that, I see him as a solid #3/4 starter.

    edit: i did hype of eddie kunz but the kid didn't even get a chance to pitch.Instead of him potentially blowing it, the current scrubs in our pen blew games. He gave up a HR in that one inning he pitched but then didnt pitch for a week and had a terrible outing for the Buccs. I expect him to be here in septmber though.
    Last edited by JV51; 08-21-2008 at 05:42 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by JV51 View Post
    Lol. Sean, calm down buddy.

    I honestly don't think Niese is anything being hyped up. He's not being called the best minor league pitching prospect.
    last time I checked, neither was Alan Horne. #3 upside.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    last time I checked, neither was Alan Horne. #3 upside.
    Man last year on ESPN radio, I heard Manuel(think that's his name) from BA say that Horne's stuff was second to Joba's in the yankees farm system and that he was untouchable in deals at the deadline specifically for Zito and Buerhle.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by JV51 View Post
    Man last year on ESPN radio, I heard Manuel(think that's his name) from BA say that Horne's stuff was second to Joba's in the yankees farm system and that he was untouchable in deals at the deadline specifically for Zito and Buerhle.
    Probably heard wrong, but I thought it was the Yankees hyping these guys?

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