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Thread: Watch out for them dangerous AIP Secessionists!!!

  1. #1
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    Watch out for them dangerous AIP Secessionists!!!

    nice to see the lib media remains biased and derelict in their duties...

    [QUOTE][CENTER]Platform and Goal
    of the
    Alaskan Independence Party[/CENTER]
    Preamble


    We affirm that all political power is inherent in the people; that all government originates with the people, is founded on their will only, is instituted to protect the rights of the individual; that all persons have a natural right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, and the enjoyment of the rewards of their own industry; that all persons are equal and entitled to equal protection under the law. We stand on a firm constitutional foundation.
    Platform

    We pledge to exert our best efforts to accomplish the following:


    To effect full compliance with the constitutions of the United States of America and the State of Alaska.

    To support and defend States' Rights, Individual Rights, Property Rights, and the Equal Footing Doctrine as guaranteed by the constitutions of the United States of America and the state of Alaska.

    To advocate the convening of a State Constitutional Convention at the constitutionally designated 10 year interval.

    To reinforce the unalienable rights endowed by our Creator to Alaska law, by eliminating the use of the word "privilege" in the Alaska statutes.

    To amend the Constitution of the State of Alaska so as to re-establish the rights of all Alaskan residents to entry upon all public lands within the state, and to acquire private property interest there in, under fair and reasonable conditions. Such property interest shall include surface and sub-surface patent.

    To foster a constitutional amendment abolishing and prohibiting all property taxes.

    To seek the complete repatriation of the public lands, held by the federal government, to the state and people of Alaska in conformance with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17, of the federal constitution. [url]http://akip.org/issues.html#7[/url]

    To prohibit all bureaucratic regulations and judicial rulings purporting to have the effect of law, except that which shall be approved by the elected legislature.

    To preserve and protect the Alaska Permanent Fund, Permanent fund earnings, earnings reserve fund and individual Permanent Fund Dividends.

    To provide for the direct popular election of the attorney general, all judges, and magistrates.

    To provide for the development of unrestricted, statewide, surface transportation and utility corridors as needed by the public or any individual.
    To affirm and assert every possible right-of-way established under R.S. 2477 of July 26, 1866, before its repeal by the Federal Land Management Policy Act of October 21, 1976.

    To support the right of the individual to keep and bear arms.

    To support the complete abolition of the concept of sovereign or governmental immunity, so as to restore accountability for public servants.

    To support the rights of parents to privately or home school their children.

    To support the privatization of government services.

    To oppose the borrowing of money by government for any purposes other than for capital improvements.

    To strengthen the traditional family and support individual accountability without government interference or regulation.

    To support the right of jurors to judge the law as well as the facts, according to their conscience.

    To support "Jobs for Alaskans...First!"

    [/QUOTE]

    [url]http://akip.org/platform.html[/url]

  2. #2
    Perhaps not quite so tame all the time...

    From TPM:

    [QUOTE]Founder Of Group Palin Courted Professed "Hatred For The American Government"; Cursed "Damn Flag"

    By Greg Sargent - September 2, 2008, 6:10PM
    The founder of the Alaska Independence Party -- a group that has been courted over the years by Sarah Palin, and one her husband was a member of for roughly seven years -- once professed his "hatred for the American government" and cursed the American flag as a "damn flag."

    The AIP founder, Joe Vogler, made the comments in 1991, in an interview that's now housed at the Oral History Program in the Rasmuson Library at the University of Alaska, Fairbanks.

    "The fires of hell are frozen glaciers compared to my hatred for the American government," Vogler said in the interview, in which he talked extensively about his desire for Alaskan succession, the key goal of the AIP.

    "And I won't be buried under their damn flag," Vogler continued in the interview, which also touched on his disappointment with the American judicial system. "I'll be buried in Dawson. And when Alaska is an independent nation they can bring my bones home."

    At another point, Volger advocated renouncing allegiance to the United States. In the course of denouncing Federal regulation over land, he said:

    "And then you get mad. And you say, the hell with them. And you renounce allegiance, and you pledge your efforts, your effects, your honor, your life to Alaska."

    You can listen to audio of the relevant section of the Volger interview here. Bill Schneider, curator of oral history at the library, verified the authenticity of the interview and the quote to me a few moments ago.

    Palin has courted the group over the years.

    Three years after the controversial interview, in 1994, Palin attended the group's annual convention, according to witnesses who spoke to ABC News' Jake Tapper. The McCain campaign is disputing her presence there, but Tapper found two people to attest to it.


    The McCain campaign today produced Palin's voting registration records, and said they proved she was never a member of the party.

    But she has repeatedly reached out to the group. The McCain campaign has confirmed she visited the group's 2000 convention, and she addressed its convention this year, as an incumbent governor whose oath of office includes upholding the Constitution of the United States.

    Palin's husband, Todd Palin, was a member of the party from 1995-2002 with a brief exception in 2000.

    It's worth noting that Vogler isn't just some figure from ancient history. He is still being hailed on AIP's site this year, the same year Palin addressed the group's convention.

    It's worth pondering how big a deal it would be if Obama had ever courted the support of a group whose head had said this kind of thing about America and her flag. Oh, wait...[/QUOTE]

  3. #3
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2722791]nice to see the lib media remains biased and derelict in their duties...



    [url]http://akip.org/platform.html[/url][/QUOTE]

    That's fine and good. Was that the same platform the AIP had in 1997 when Palin was a member?

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2722978]That's fine and good. Was that the same platform the AIP had in 1997 when Palin was a member?[/QUOTE]

    CBNY conveniently left out AIP's "goals," which are "ideally" to "become a separate and independent nation":

    Goals
    Until we as Alaskans [B]receive our Ultimate Goal[/B], the AIP will continue to strive to make Alaska a better place to live with less government interference in our everyday lives.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
    1) Remain a Territory.
    2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
    3) Accept Commonwealth status.
    4) Become a State.
    The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, which was for Alaskans to achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences.

  5. #5
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2722996]CBNY conveniently left out AIP's "goals," which are "ideally" to "become a separate and independent nation":

    Goals
    Until we as Alaskans [B]receive our Ultimate Goal[/B], the AIP will continue to strive to make Alaska a better place to live with less government interference in our everyday lives.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
    1) Remain a Territory.
    2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
    3) Accept Commonwealth status.
    4) Become a State.
    The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, which was for Alaskans to achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences.[/QUOTE]

    So CBNY is defending an America hating secessionist who wants to be VP of the USA? :eek:

    :P

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2722996]CBNY conveniently left out AIP's "goals," which are "ideally" to "become a separate and independent nation":

    Goals
    Until we as Alaskans [B]receive our Ultimate Goal[/B], the AIP will continue to strive to make Alaska a better place to live with less government interference in our everyday lives.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    The Alaskan Independence Party's goal is the vote we were entitled to in 1958, one choice from among the following four alternatives:
    1) Remain a Territory.
    2) Become a separate and Independent Nation.
    3) Accept Commonwealth status.
    4) Become a State.
    The call for this vote is in furtherance of the dream of the Alaskan Independence Party's founding father, Joe Vogler, which was for Alaskans to achieve independence under a minimal government, fully responsive to the people, promoting a peaceful and lawful means of resolving differences.[/QUOTE]


    I left out nothing....according to the article in the thread posted yeasterday:

    [QUOTE]"We are a state's rights party," says Clark, a self-employed goldminer. The AIP has "a [B]plank[/B] that challenges the legality of the Alaskan statehood vote as illegal and in violation of United Nations charter and international law." [/QUOTE]

    [url]http://www.jetsinsider.net/forums/showthread.php?t=176455[/url]

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2723000]So CBNY is defending an America hating secessionist who wants to be VP of the USA? :eek:

    :P[/QUOTE]

    Well, not quite. He's trying to white-wash to true intents of his party's bad choice. Being a Republican shill at all costs requires one to defend any decision the party makes regardless of common sense.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2723004]Well, not quite. He's trying to white-wash to true intents of his party's bad choice. Being a Republican shill at all costs requires one to defend any decision the party makes regardless of common sense.[/QUOTE]

    compared to a rat-wing shill like yourself who goes to any/all lenghts to applaud American defeat, even at the hands of cheating chicoms???

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2723011]compared to a rat-wing shill like yourself who goes to any/all lenghts to applaud American defeat, even at the hands of cheating chicoms???[/QUOTE]

    Your complete failure to recognize over the top tweeking is par for the course. I had to actually spell it out for you in that thread. And you still didn't get it... but you are perfectly happy to support a small-town hack politician who advocates treason. What a surprise. :rolleyes:

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2723068]Your complete failure to recognize over the top tweeking is par for the course. I had to actually spell it out for you in that thread. And you still didn't get it... but you are perfectly happy to support a small-town hack politician who advocates treason. What a surprise. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    you spelled out nothing and once again got an accusation dead wrong....all along hooraying an appeasment minded, radical leftist to the White House- then again why not? you've shown yourself to be no different....

  11. #11
    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2722791]To seek the complete repatriation of the public lands, held by the federal government, to the state and people of Alaska in conformance with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17, of the federal constitution.[/QUOTE]


    did you read your own post CBNY?

    for those keeping track at home

    [quote]

    Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17

    To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--[/quote]

    in other words a fundamental rule that recognized the states into 1 union on the map

    People have bandied the word "traitor" around on this forum

    usually in the context of berating people into believing as they do

    but let us get one thing straight fellow Jets fans

    a citizen who believes their state should be it's own country is as much a traitor as a member of the Communist Party or any other subversive organization.

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2723150]did you read your own post CBNY?

    for those keeping track at home
    [/QUOTE]

    of course did....Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17 reads as follows...

    [QUOTE]The AIP seeks the complete repatriation of the public lands, held by the federal government, to the state and people of Alaska in conformance with Article 1, Section 8, Clause 17, of the federal constitution.

    Alaska is almost entirely owned by the government. 99.7% of the state is owned by government. The federal government owns the majority of the land mass of Alaska.

    Since Statehood, The federal government has withdrawn areas greater than the size of Texas from development and disposal.

    The federal constitution only authorizes certian uses for federally held land. Wilderness designation is not one of them.

    The Alaskan Statehood Compact required the Federal Government to return the land it held to the state of Alaska and in turn her people. this has never happened.
    [/QUOTE]

  13. #13
    I would think hating America and hating Government are two different things, no?

    So if I'm for less government does that make me a Nazi?
    Last edited by HessStation; 09-02-2008 at 11:06 PM.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2723150]a citizen who believes their state should be it's own country is as much a traitor as a member of the Communist Party or any other subversive organization.[/QUOTE]

    No sure I agree. Is a cecessionist necessarily a traitor? They're not trying to overthrow the US government.

    On the other hand, their demands are loony tunes. Alaska wasn't annexed or invaded by the US. It was purchased. Some time after the land was purchased, these people moved there. And now they say it belongs to them, not the US. And some of the stuff in CBTNY's post of their charter--wanting to take over all federally-owned land and sell it to private parties, wanting freedom from all federal laws, wanting to let jurors ignore the law in deciding guilt, it's pretty out there. Ultimately, the only way these things could come to pass would be through a war. So there's a subtext that at some point in time these people advocate war with the US.
    Last edited by BushyTheBeaver; 09-03-2008 at 12:03 AM.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=BushyTheBeaver;2723462]No sure I agree. Is a cecessionist necessarily a traitor? They're not trying to overthrow the US government.

    On the other hand, their demands are loony tunes. Alaska wasn't annexed or invaded by the US. It was purchased. Some time after the land was purchased, these people moved there. And now they say it belongs to them, not the US. And some of the stuff in CBTNY's post of their charter--wanting to take over all federally-owned land and sell it to private parties, wanting freedom from all federal laws, wanting to let jurors ignore the law in deciding guilt, it's pretty out there. Ultimately, the only way these things could come to pass would be through a war. So there's a subtext that at some point in time these people advocate war with the US.[/QUOTE]

    You're right re the charter elements... truly extreme by any measure.

    Re your first point, I think it's fair to say that having a secessionist viewpoint is not treasonous. Acting on that viewpoint to promote or abet secession is certainly treason. See Thomas Jefferson's response to Aaron Burr's attempt to engage a secessionist plot. He wanted him hanged, plain and simple. If it wasn't for John Marshall assessing that there was insufficient evidence against Burr, he would have been hanged for treason. Jefferson still pursued that option through a public appeal even after the decision.

    HessStation's attempt to equate wanting less government with being a Nazi doesn't make sense on several levels, and it doesn't relate to this issue at all. AIP wants to leave the USA and be a separate country, just as the Southern firebrands did in 1860. Five presidents faced secessionist movements in their terms: Washington, Jefferson, Madison, Jackson and Lincoln. They were all of one mind. Secession=revolt and should be crushed. Period. The fact that Palin et al are hiding behind the "well we're trying to legislate secession rather than engage military action" is no different than Calhoun and Jeff Davis's efforts to make the same argument in the 1850's. Secession=treason. No way around it.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2723775]The fact that Palin et al are hiding behind the "well we're trying to legislate secession rather than engage military action" is no different than Calhoun and Jeff Davis's efforts to make the same argument in the 1850's. Secession=treason. No way around it.[/QUOTE]
    Thank you for sounding the alarm. Stay vigilant!

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=BushyTheBeaver;2723462]No sure I agree. Is a cecessionist necessarily a traitor? They're not trying to overthrow the US government.

    On the other hand,

    Ultimately, the only way these things could come to pass would be through a war. So there's a subtext that at some point in time these people advocate war with the US.[/QUOTE]

    sounds like a traitor to me...

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=sackdance;2723784]Thank you for sounding the alarm. Stay vigilant![/QUOTE]

    No need to. President Obama will root out these traitors and hang them in the public square. ;)

    Seriously, we still are not clear about Palin's actual membership in this party, although she appears to have been sympathetic to them. Her husband's idiotic involvement is not a question. These are loony eccentrics with a plan to secede. Doesn't make me worried for the country, only for them.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2724043]No need to. President Obama will root out these traitors and hang them in the public square. ;)

    Seriously, we still are not clear about Palin's actual membership in this party, although she appears to have been sympathetic to them. Her husband's idiotic involvement is not a question. These are loony eccentrics with a plan to secede. Doesn't make me worried for the country, only for them.[/QUOTE]

    You truly seem to be the voice of reason on this subject. Thanks also for the history lesson on Jefferson and Burr. It was very interesting.

  20. #20
    From the Constitution:
    [QUOTE]Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.[/QUOTE]

    [URL="http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articleiii.html#section3"]http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.articleiii.html#section3[/URL]

    From Merrian-Webster:
    [QUOTE]Main Entry: se•ces•sion
    Pronunciation: \si-ˈse-shən\
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Latin secession-, secessio, from secedere
    Date: 1604
    1 : withdrawal into privacy or solitude : retirement
    [B]2 : formal withdrawal from an organization[/B][/QUOTE]

    [URL="http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secession"]http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/secession[/URL]

    A does not equal B. Seceding from the country does not constitute an act of war or giving aid and comfort to an enemy. It does not necessarily have to be an aggressive procedure.

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