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Thread: As a democrat, last night worried me

  1. #1
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    As a democrat, last night worried me

    Overall, it was a solid night for the repubs.. limit GW and keep him off the major networks, a solid speech from Fred Thompson, and some pleading and begging from Liberman to vote for his buddy.

    By refocusing on John McCain:the man, it's given something for the party to rally around. As amusing as it is that the same reason repubs hated McCain - because he used to not tote the party line - is the same reason they're now embracing him, I guess 8 years of Bush destroying the party will make you embrace anything to distance yourself from what it currently means to be a repub.

    I thought Thompson was a big surprise. He did a great job of laying out the McCain bio, and more importantly, was excellent in connecting his POW experience with the character theme. No doubt this will be bought hook, line and sinker. While I think everyone can agree that what McCain endured was hell, and he truly is an American hero, I will stand my ground that the John McCain of the last 5 years is not the same man. He's abandoned many of his core prinicpals to pander to the base. His flip flops on issues (even his own legislation) is troubling. His maverick days ended a long time ago. As a dem, I can only hope that if elected, McCain reverts back to the politician he was, and not the politician the base wants him to be.

    Adding Liberman to the bill was a nice touch. And Dem can tell you that Joe has an axe to grind with the party, so i wouldn't read too much into his 'country over party' message. If anything, it's 'BFF over party'.

    The bottom line is the repubs have done a nice job switching the narrative to McCain and the type of man he is/was. Forget about the issues, or the current repub regime's epic failures, and let's focus on the fact that there's an american hero on the ballot. Sadly, I think this will work.

    Let's make no mistake about it - a public that was blind enough to keep Bush and Cheney in power in 2004 will have no issues pulling the lever for McCain/Palin come this November.

  2. #2
    [QUOTE=shuler82;2724253]

    The bottom line is the repubs have done a nice job switching the narrative to McCain and the type of man he is/was.[/QUOTE]

    and by extension the man Obama will never be.

  3. #3
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    I was in and out of the speeches, paying more attention to the Mets game...

    Thompson is tough to understand with his southern drawl- but his delivery was funny...

    Lieberman was pretty straight forward- though he's not as fiery as Zel Miller was four years ago...then again the dems are furious at him this morning/...

    I am surprised, from what I saw anyway, they did not hit hard at the Pelosi congress...

  4. #4
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    [QUOTE=Darth Vader;2724266]and by extension the man Obama will never be.[/QUOTE]

    how do you figure? is it his lack of POW experience?

  5. #5
    You know what my big worry is? When voters looked at Obama last week and the Dem convention they were impressed. He appeared to be well spoken, intelligent and had good ideas. Not the scarey guy they thought he might be. Hence he got a bump.

    As we get closer to the election when the day of reckoning comes and it comes time to pull that lever for the risky black guy over the war hero white guy they will chicken out on their feelings on issues and what they think of Obama now, and vote for the safe pick - McCain.

    I do agree with the argument that Obama's race has helped to get him where he is now. However, I also think that you can make the argument that now that he is the nominee and if he was a white guy with the same intelligence and talents that he displays he would win easily going away.

    Race is the defining issue of this campaign. Can Obama get blacks who never voted before to the polls vs. whites who will go to the polls to keep the black guy out. Whichever of these groups turns out more will decide the winner.

  6. #6
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    I wouldn't worry too much, McCain isn't going to win and even if by some miracle he does win, he'll immediately revert back to being a RINO anyway and the Dems will have a veto-proof majority.

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    [QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan;2724284]You know what my big worry is? When voters looked at Obama last week and the Dem convention they were impressed. He appeared to be well spoken, intelligent and had good ideas. Not the scarey guy they thought he might be. Hence he got a bump.

    As we get closer to the election when the day of reckoning comes and it comes time to pull that lever for the risky black guy over the war hero white guy they will chicken out on their feelings on issues and what they think of Obama now, and vote for the safe pick - McCain.

    I do agree with the argument that Obama's race has helped to get him where he is now. However, I also think that you can make the argument that now that he is the nominee and if he was a white guy with the same intelligence and talents that he displays he would win easily going away.

    Race is the defining issue of this campaign. Can Obama get blacks who never voted before to the polls vs. whites who will go to the polls to keep the black guy out. Whichever of these groups turns out more will decide the winner.[/QUOTE]


    Barack Obama is the nominee ONLY because he is black. That is simply the only reason. Hypotheticals of him being the nominee and being white are pointless, because if he were white Hillary Clinton would be the nominee and everyone knows it. Obama would not have given the keynote address in 2004 and likely would not have run in 2008 as a freshman senator no one had ever heard of and even if he did, Hillary would have trounced him...he'd have had no gimmick or "history" for the MSM to swoon over, and instead Hillary would have had all of that. John Edwards was a freshman senator gifted at speaking and he never did anything. John Edwards is the white Barack Obama...that's what would have happened, if Obama were lucky.

    You are basically saying that if Obama loses it is because America is racist. That is a ridiculously inaccurate and self-serving argument. That's like arguing that Democrats hate women because they didn't nominate Hillary.

    Nice try, though.
    Last edited by jets5ever; 09-03-2008 at 12:41 PM.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan;2724284]You know what my big worry is? When voters looked at Obama last week and the Dem convention they were impressed. He appeared to be well spoken, intelligent and had good ideas. Not the scarey guy they thought he might be. Hence he got a bump.

    As we get closer to the election when the day of reckoning comes and it comes time to pull that lever for the risky black guy over the war hero white guy they will chicken out on their feelings on issues and what they think of Obama now, and vote for the safe pick - McCain.
    .[/QUOTE]

    Agreed.. and the more successfully the McCain camp pushes his war hero bio and avoids the issues, the better off he'll be. Ultimately too many people vote based on their heart, and not with their own best interests in mind. Even if Obama crushes McCain in the debates, I'm not sure how much effect it will have.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2724290]
    You are basically saying that if Obama loses it is because America is racist. That is a ridiculously inaccurate and self-serving argument.[/QUOTE]


    with some truth behind it.

    the polls say again and again that a minority in this country will not vote for (or feel uncomfortable voting for) a black man. This is the reason why repub groups continually paint Obama as foreign and different (even his recent vacation in Hawaii was 'exotic', the reasons pictures of Obama in Kenyan garb still get fwd around, and why many insist on including his ethnic Hussein middle name).. the more uncomfortable voters are in feeling that Obama is 'not like them' the less likely they are to vote for him. It's a simple, undisputable fact.

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2724290]Barack Obama is the nominee ONLY because he is black. That is simply the only reason. Hypotheticals of him being the nominee and being white are pointless, as if he were white Hillary Clinton would be the nominee and everyone knows it. Obama would not have given the keynote address in 2004 and likely would not have run in 2008 as a freshman senator no one had ever heard of. John Edwards was a freshman senator gifted at speaking and he never did anything.

    You are basically saying that if Obama loses it is because America is racist. That is a ridiculously inaccurate and self-serving argument.[/QUOTE]
    Didn't you read that I said that race got him where he was? That's not the point I'm making.

    My point is that there are enough racists in this country to make him lose the election where these people would have voted for him now once he became the nominee with the positions and the talent that he has.

    It is not an indictment of the whole country being racist that a bunch of bigots can tip a close election.

    So yes I will say that if Obama loses it is because of race, and not because America is a racist country. Contrary the fact that he was nominated shows the great strides we have made. Sadly with some, we still have a long way to go.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=shuler82;2724294]Agreed.. and the more successfully the McCain camp pushes his war hero bio and avoids the issues, the better off he'll be. Ultimately too many people vote based on their heart, and not with their own best interests in mind. Even if Obama crushes McCain in the debates, I'm not sure how much effect it will have.[/QUOTE]

    No offense, but aren't you discounting the fact that a large majority of Obama supporters are voting with their hearts? I mean, his followers are creepy and cult-like. Obama flaps his gums and distorts his record, flip-flops and blatantly lies about his past. Maybe people's "best interests" aren't what you guys think they are. My best interests are not higher taxes, larger government, government run healthcare, protectionism, bowing to teacher's unions, enacting hysperical Global Warming and other environmental regulations, etc. Is it perhaps a possibility that Obama is nothing but a few speeches? The guy was a community organizer and then has been in government for a few years, with no legislative accomplishments of any import. His track record, or what there even is of it, suggests a radically left-wing world-view and it completely, 100% at oddas with his current presentation of himself as non-partisan and moderate. Is it perhaps possible that thoughts like this go through people's minds, and not the self-serving analysis you guys have dreamed up?

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=shuler82;2724303]with some truth behind it.

    the polls say again and again that a minority in this country will not vote for (or feel uncomfortable voting for) a black man. This is the reason why repub groups continually paint Obama as foreign and different (even his recent vacation in Hawaii was 'exotic', the reasons pictures of Obama in Kenyan garb still get fwd around, and why many insist on including his ethnic Hussein middle name).. the more uncomfortable voters are in feeling that Obama is 'not like them' the less likely they are to vote for him. It's a simple, undisputable fact.[/QUOTE]

    Black people are voting for him only because he is black. Many white liberals are voting for him because he's black and they like the idea of having a black POTUS. Black > Chick in the liberal victim-group hierarchy. For the record, it was Hillary's group that started the Kenyan picture and the only idiots who use "Hussein" are morons on this board and people like Coulter, not any mainstream or elected GOP officials. People on the left are just as viscious towards people like Condi, Clarence Thomas and hell, even Sarah Palin, recently.

    In 2004, the Dems lost because America hate fags. Now, they may lose because America hates blacks. Why oh why do liberals always have to couch defeat in terms that reflect well on them? Why they can't ever just lose an election? When they lose, America is full of bigots and Diebold stole the elections. When they win like in 2006, Diebold forgot to steal those elections and Americans are apparently not bigots anymore. It is hysterical to see the lengths liberals will go to pat themselves on the back.

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    [QUOTE=Queens Jet Fan;2724305]Didn't you read that I said that race got him where he was? That's not the point I'm making.

    My point is that there are enough racists in this country to make him lose the election where these people would have voted for him now once he became the nominee with the positions and the talent that he has.

    It is not an indictment of the whole country being racist that a bunch of bigots can tip a close election.

    So yes I will say that if Obama loses it is because of race, and not because America is a racist country. Contrary the fact that he was nominated shows the great strides we have made. Sadly with some, we still have a long way to go.[/QUOTE]

    Your unstated assumption is that Obama's "positions" and "talent" are objectivey so superior such that only racist attitudes could cause a person to vote against him. I think that is laughable and self-serving. And, sadly, typical of many of my friends on the left.

    Why aren't black people who have never voted before and who will vote against McCain this time considered "a bunch of bigots" in this analysis? What about the white liberals who are voting for him because they like the idea of having a black president - are they considered bigots?

    So, the only way Obama can lose is due to racism. That's what you are saying. It's unreal. My God, liberals don't even need partners, they spend all day blowing themselves....

  14. #14
    [QUOTE=shuler82;2724280]how do you figure? is it his lack of POW experience?[/QUOTE]

    Obama is empty as a heroic figure compared to McCain.

    That's not difficult to figure, Shuler....

    That's why Obama takes flak for his "rhetoric".

    Obama has replaced "the himself" part, that part of McCain that was communicated last night, with the historical onus -- and guilt -- of America per Blacks...

    Obama is completely rhetorical, saying, "I am history". While John McCain is real, with others, including the former Democratic VP candidate providing testimony that, "John McCain is John McCain".

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2724313]No offense, but aren't you discounting the fact that a large majority of Obama supporters are voting with their hearts? I mean, his followers are creepy and cult-like. Obama flaps his gums and distorts his record, flip-flops and blatantly lies about his past. Maybe people's "best interests" aren't what you guys think they are. My best interests are not higher taxes, larger government, government run healthcare, protectionism, bowing to teacher's unions, enacting hysperical Global Warming and other environmental regulations, etc. [QUOTE]

    i have no doubt that there are Obama supporters who are voting with their hearts - mostly, the upper class 250K+ers who will be effected by his tax reform. Clearly, under McCain, they'd be less taxed.

    Can you give some examples of 'blatantly' lying about the past?

    I will give you that he has flip flopped on finance reform, and more troubling was his compromise on the telecom bill. But if we want to talk flip flopping, he's no match for McCain.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2724337]So, the only way Obama can lose is due to racism. That's what you are saying. It's unreal. My God, liberals don't even need partners, they spend all day blowing themselves....[/QUOTE]
    Big laugh.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Darth Vader;2724369]Obama is empty as a heroic figure compared to McCain.

    That's not difficult to figure, Shuler....

    That's why Obama takes flak for his "rhetoric".

    Obama has replaced "the himself" part, that part of McCain that was communicated last night, with the historical onus -- and guilt -- of America per Blacks...

    Obama is completely rhetorical, saying, "I am history". While John McCain is real, with others, including the former Democratic VP candidate providing testimony that, "John McCain is John McCain".[/QUOTE]


    John McCain, POW, is a moving story, no doubt. But who is John McCain today? His opinions and voting record has shifted since 2000, and the campaign he's run up to this point would be one he'd condemn 8 years ago. His judgements have been flawed, and whether due to pandering or not, his voting record has staunchly mached GW - not exactly the maverick, bipartisan portrait that has been painted (and used to be true). Thus far that has been left out of the conversation. It will be interesting moving foward this week and see if McCain can give policy detail that departs from the current regime.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2724290]Barack Obama is the nominee ONLY because he is black. That is simply the only reason. [/QUOTE]

    there hasn't been an orator as impressive as Obama in 40 years, on either side of the aisle. that's a reason too...

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2724290]Barack Obama is the nominee ONLY because he is black. That is simply the only reason. .[/QUOTE]

    Strange how Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson seemed exempt from being awarded the nomination strictly because of their race.

    They, too, are black. And yet they didn't get close to the nomination.

    What gives?

  20. #20
    This thread is very enlightening as to the mentallity of modern liberals.

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