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Thread: Question for Conservatives (no, not you piney)

  1. #1
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    Question for Conservatives (no, not you piney)

    Serious Questions:

    Do you think the Republican Party sucks or what? Do you like McCain? I know he's better than Obama and the GOP is better than the Dems. I know why you are voting for McCain. My question is braoder than that. I am not asking for a relative judgment, not a "Yeah, the GOP sucks but the Dems suck worse." I am asking in an absolute sense. Are any of you as disappointed as I am with the Republican Party?

    This is obviously a gross over simplification, talking point summary, but I generally was drawn to the small government, strong military, free-market, pro-business, traditional values brand that the GOP used to have. What happened?

    I don't know - I look at the party now and see not much to get excited about. Am I over-reacting, being a drama-queen? Someone sell me on the GOP, because this is like an all-time low....

    I can't fathom people like Huckabee being taken seroiusly. I can't fathom unreliable, liberal, big government douches like McCain being our standard-bearer. I can't imagine such a politically correct pander as picking Palin and then acting like she's even remotely qualified. (Screw Obama, this isn't about her being more qualified than him...he's a freaking cartoon character. I am talking about Palin- the idea that she's qualified to be CIC in a time of war is a JOKE and we all know it).

    What gives? Why does the GOP suck so much?
    Last edited by jets5ever; 09-04-2008 at 08:51 PM.

  2. #2
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    I agree entirely and a half. But Palin, she's the future, man. Conservatism is going to come back, I can feel it. Is McCain my favorite? Hell no. But like Rudy said last night, "By selecting Pailn, McCain is choosing the future." And it's a pretty bright future I might add.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2727950]Serious Questions:

    Do you think the Republican Party sucks or what?[/quote]

    Yes. Weak, corrupted, spineless and lazy. Conservative values are great values for the most part, and the party who supposedly represents them has either betrayed them, or done nothing to further them.

    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2727950]Do you like McCain?[/quote]

    No.

    Incredably uninspiring RINO, who is far to liable to "work accross the aisle" i.e. give in to Liberal Ideology for popularity and media hugs and kisses.

    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2727950]Are any of you as disappointed as I am with the Republican Party?[/quote]

    No. I expect failure and corruption for the two big Political Parties. Their primary job is to continue to get them elected. Not to serve the people.

    It's a symptom of the problems with the two-party system IMO. Getting elected by simply being opposite the other party leaves no rrom for real policy making, or the interests of the vast majority of Americans.

    But as Flushing (perhaps rightly) says, I'm just a horrible spineless libertairan fense sitter with no morals and no soul.

    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2727950]This is obviously a gross over simplification[/quote]

    Indeed. Don't you usually leave those for me to make?

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    oh man.....called out

    although to be fair, I never claimed to be a conservative...just to agree with some conservative ideology...

    but still...oh man

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    [QUOTE=piney;2727975]oh man.....called out

    although to be fair, I never claimed to be a conservative...just to agree with some conservative ideology...

    but still...oh man[/QUOTE]

    Badge of honour my friend. Wear it proud.:yes:

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    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2727950]Serious Questions:

    Do you think the Republican Party sucks or what? Do you like McCain? I know he's better than Obama and the GOP is better than the Dems. I know why you are voting for McCain. My question is braoder than that. I am not asking for a relative judgment, not a "Yeah, the GOP sucks but the Dems suck worse." I am asking in an absolute sense. Are any of you as disappointed as I am with the Republican Party?

    This is obviously a gross over simplification, talking point summary, but I generally was drawn to the small government, strong military, free-market, pro-business, traditional values brand that the GOP used to have. What happened?

    I don't know - I look at the party now and see not much to get excited about. Am I over-reacting, being a drama-queen? Someone sell me on the GOP, because this is like an all-time low....

    I can't fathom people like Huckabee being taken seroiusly. I can't fathom unreliable, liberal, big government douches like McCain being our standard-bearer. I can't imagine such a politically correct pander as picking Palin and then acting like she's even remotely qualified. (Screw Obama, this isn't about her being more qualified than him...he's a freaking cartoon character. I am talking about Palin- the idea that she's qualified to be CIC in a time of war is a JOKE and we all know it).

    What gives? Why does the GOP suck so much?[/QUOTE]

    Not really a conservative but I do support McCain. The party itself does suck which is why it needs a guy like him. As soon as they took power they immediately gave in to special interests and that's disappointing.

    They came to believe that all small government meant was lower taxes.

    They ran on conservative values and then said that they'd leave it for the supreme court to decide.

    And there are many other failures. I would also say that they were too pro-business at times. It's one thing to allow a company to work unimpeded it's another thing to not hold them accountable for their actions.

    But honestly, most of this comes down to the economy and the fact that Bush has been attacked for so long that even his good decisions are ignored. So goes Bush so goes the GOP and so goes the Neocons. That left just two options, go right and pander to the evangelicals (Huckabee) or move to the center?

    I think they made the right decision. And I think when the democrats will have to stop running simply on a platform of "do you hate Bush? So do I! Vote for me" it will be good for the entire country.

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    I'm pretty Conservative on an economic sense, so in that regard, Bush has been a pretty spectacular failure. He's spent like a Democrat, but cut taxes like a Republican which has given us a huge, bloated government that's deep, DEEP in debt.

    To the point where a pretty conservative guy like myself thinks that taxing is the only way we're going to dig ourselves out of this. The only other option is to drastically reduce the size of government both on social programs (Dems say no) and on defense (GOP says no).

    So, honestly, I don't know where we go from here. The failure of the GOP can be tied to one man, but it's been a failure of everyone who signed the "Contract with America" and then basically burnt it. Through scandals, profiteering and other abuses of power, they showed themselves to be no more trustworthy than the Democrats with the keys of power.

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    [QUOTE=Das Ken;2728046]Not really a conservative but I do support McCain. The party itself does suck which is why it needs a guy like him. As soon as they took power they immediately gave in to special interests and that's disappointing.

    They came to believe that all small government meant was lower taxes.

    They ran on conservative values and then said that they'd leave it for the supreme court to decide.

    And there are many other failures. I would also say that they were too pro-business at times. It's one thing to allow a company to work unimpeded it's another thing to not hold them accountable for their actions.

    But honestly, most of this comes down to the economy and the fact that Bush has been attacked for so long that even his good decisions are ignored. So goes Bush so goes the GOP and so goes the Neocons. That left just two options, go right and pander to the evangelicals (Huckabee) or move to the center?

    I think they made the right decision. And I think when the democrats will have to stop running simply on a platform of "do you hate Bush? So do I! Vote for me" it will be good for the entire country.[/QUOTE]


    Interesting take. Thanks for the reply. A lot of what you say is true. Good post.

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    I actually like John McCain. I do not agree with him on everything, but he's honest (as far as Pols go) . I loathe most of the GOP Pols sent to DC, they, with few exceptions, became typical DC crooked fat cats once they gained control of congress. I am hopeful my party will find itself. Heck, in his second term Bill Clinton was a better conservative than most GOP congressman and senators. I like Obama, the guy. I think Obama the politician needs work. If he was the slightest bit moderate, or had a record of being a peacemaker between the parties, I might think of voting for him. But the current Obama is too liberal for me.

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    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2727950]Serious Questions:

    Do you think the Republican Party sucks or what? Do you like McCain? I know he's better than Obama and the GOP is better than the Dems. I know why you are voting for McCain. My question is braoder than that. I am not asking for a relative judgment, not a "Yeah, the GOP sucks but the Dems suck worse." I am asking in an absolute sense. Are any of you as disappointed as I am with the Republican Party?

    This is obviously a gross over simplification, talking point summary, but I generally was drawn to the small government, strong military, free-market, pro-business, traditional values brand that the GOP used to have. What happened?

    I don't know - I look at the party now and see not much to get excited about. Am I over-reacting, being a drama-queen? Someone sell me on the GOP, because this is like an all-time low....

    I can't fathom people like Huckabee being taken seroiusly. I can't fathom unreliable, liberal, big government douches like McCain being our standard-bearer. I can't imagine such a politically correct pander as picking Palin and then acting like she's even remotely qualified. (Screw Obama, this isn't about her being more qualified than him...he's a freaking cartoon character. I am talking about Palin- the idea that she's qualified to be CIC in a time of war is a JOKE and we all know it).

    What gives? Why does the GOP suck so much?[/QUOTE]


    We haven't had a guy who could deliver a coherent sentence from a teleprompter in 20 years. Very frustrating. I'm no McCain fan. Every time I hear about him "reaching across the isle" (more like reach around) or mention global warming, I get a little vomit in my mouth. McCain is basically Bill Clinton, only in a different party. I'd rather have a moderate in the White House, then someone as far left as Obama.

    As far as Palin goes, I really do like her. I think she has a bright future.
    Last edited by SanAntonio_JetFan; 09-05-2008 at 08:29 AM.

  11. #11
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    I think you are wrong on Palin, I wish there more in the party like her to get excited about. I also agree with Ham in that I think Newt would have been the best candidate the Republicans could have put forth but he may be too smart for the general public to appreciate.

    I look at McCain as more of a hold the fort type of guy as we wait for the party to redefine itself and hopefully it will come up with more like Palin. I could never take Huckleberry seriously.

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    Woody Johnson loves McCain so much, he'll cold Call Dolan

    no, really

    [url]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/05/us/politics/05donate.html?ref=politics[/url]

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    [QUOTE=Green Jets & Ham;2728043]
    So Yeah, I share your disappointment, I too long for the Gipper, would gladly have taken Gingrich, would even be okay with any authentic conservative who doesn't come off like Howdy Doody {Huckabee} or Gordon Greco {Rommey}, but for all his faults you know he'll take national security serious in a very dangerous world, in that respect John McCain {unlike his counterpart} is a "serious adult" and not an "idealistic boob", and that is more than enough reason to run out and [B][COLOR="Red"]"VOTE MCCAIN"[/COLOR][/B] for me
    [/QUOTE]

    I had similar feelings about Kerry

    tough lesson I learned, you can't win a general election based on A sucks slightly less than B.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2728574]I had similar feelings about Kerry

    tough lesson I learned, [B]you can't win a general election based on A sucks slightly less than B[/B].[/QUOTE]


    But wasn't that the choice offered between Hillary and Obama.

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    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2727950]Serious Questions:

    Do you think the Republican Party sucks or what? Do you like McCain? I know he's better than Obama and the GOP is better than the Dems. I know why you are voting for McCain. My question is braoder than that. I am not asking for a relative judgment, not a "Yeah, the GOP sucks but the Dems suck worse." I am asking in an absolute sense. Are any of you as disappointed as I am with the Republican Party?

    This is obviously a gross over simplification, talking point summary, but I generally was drawn to the small government, strong military, free-market, pro-business, traditional values brand that the GOP used to have. What happened?

    I don't know - I look at the party now and see not much to get excited about. Am I over-reacting, being a drama-queen? Someone sell me on the GOP, because this is like an all-time low....

    I can't fathom people like Huckabee being taken seroiusly. I can't fathom unreliable, liberal, big government douches like McCain being our standard-bearer. I can't imagine such a politically correct pander as picking Palin and then acting like she's even remotely qualified. (Screw Obama, this isn't about her being more qualified than him...he's a freaking cartoon character. I am talking about Palin- the idea that she's qualified to be CIC in a time of war is a JOKE and we all know it).

    What gives? Why does the GOP suck so much?[/QUOTE]

    The GOP sucks because they got drunk with their own power and forgot what got them elected in the first place, fiscal responsability. The big government that the Democrats built is extremely powerful in terms of paying off constituents and using bueracratic power to attack enemies and give favor to friends. Rather than dismanteling some of that they decided to use it to extend their own power.

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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2728578]The GOP sucks because they got drunk with their own power and forgot what got them elected in the first place, fiscal responsability. The big government that the Democrats built is extremely powerful in terms of paying off constituents and using bueracratic power to attack enemies and give favor to friends. Rather than dismanteling some of that they decided to use it to extend their own power.[/QUOTE]


    +1


    Do you think this would really change with either candidate?

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    [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2728577]But wasn't that the choice offered between Hillary and Obama.[/QUOTE]

    it's the choice between Obama and McCain

    believe it or not certain people genuinely like Obama - much like certain people genuinely liked George W Bush

    no one liked Kerry, no one likes Mccain - people tolerate them because of the "lesser of two evils" theory

    lesser of two evils isn't enough to with POTUS.

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    [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2728581]+1


    Do you think this would really change with either candidate?[/QUOTE]

    If the Dems win the Presidency and extend their majorities in both houses, 60% of this country will effectively not be represented, not much different than when the Republicans controlled the entire apparatous of Government.

    The Dems are going to win the House and Senate a McCain victory means a moderate government where compromise rules the day. The public hostility will be less since more centerist views which most of the country believes in will have to rule the day.

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    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2727950]Serious Questions:

    Do you think the Republican Party sucks or what? Do you like McCain? I know he's better than Obama and the GOP is better than the Dems. I know why you are voting for McCain. My question is braoder than that. I am not asking for a relative judgment, not a "Yeah, the GOP sucks but the Dems suck worse." I am asking in an absolute sense. Are any of you as disappointed as I am with the Republican Party?

    This is obviously a gross over simplification, talking point summary, but I generally was drawn to the small government, strong military, free-market, pro-business, traditional values brand that the GOP used to have. What happened?

    I don't know - I look at the party now and see not much to get excited about. Am I over-reacting, being a drama-queen? Someone sell me on the GOP, because this is like an all-time low....

    I can't fathom people like Huckabee being taken seroiusly. I can't fathom unreliable, liberal, big government douches like McCain being our standard-bearer. I can't imagine such a politically correct pander as picking Palin and then acting like she's even remotely qualified. (Screw Obama, this isn't about her being more qualified than him...he's a freaking cartoon character. I am talking about Palin- the idea that she's qualified to be CIC in a time of war is a JOKE and we all know it).

    What gives? Why does the GOP suck so much?[/QUOTE]

    I'm not a Conservative, but this election and the state of politics these days highlights the need for a 3rd party. The GOP is not a proper fit for folks like Specter, McCain, etc. and, on the flip side, Brownback, Inhofe (just off the top of my head).

    The Democrats have gained an advantage by seemingly being able to fit the moderates alongside the liberals under the penumbra of the party. Over the past few years, the Dem majority has essentially come from picking off the middle of the road republicans. It will be interesting to see what happens with Lieberman....I'm pretty sure that he will be stripped of his Chairmanship soon after the election....He and his butt buddy McCain should start their own party with defectors from the middle of both sides of the aisle.

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    Youíre definitely not alone. Iím not really that conservative but identify with them more than the left and I was a little too young to understand what was going on when the Republicans were a half way decent party; but I am increasingly disappointed that they canít run a real small government conservative for office. That may not be my ideal candidate but at least I could get behind them. In the end I always just end up kicking myself for expecting too much from politicians. If you ever have the time, pick up ďThe Elephant in the RoomĒ by Ryan Sager. He makes an interesting case for why the Republicans suck as much as they do now.

    He explains that conservatism is made up of two groups, libertarians and traditionalists. Basically both groups believed they had a common enemy in Communism and its perceived rising influence on the left in this country. So they joined together because their combined values often complemented each other. For instance, libertarians favor things like school choice and traditionalists favor things like prayer in school. Both sets of values could be satisfied at the same time.

    When the Cold war ended, conservatism kind of floundered for a while and then Newt Gingrich was able to unite the two factions again, this time against the Clintons; which both sides more or less perceived to be another threat to their values. When the Republicans finally came to power; it was the traditionalists that really stepped up and ran away with the whole thing. Possibly itís because they felt betrayed that the libertarian faction had achieved so little with their small government beliefs.

    I donít know how close to the mark this guy is but his theory makes sense to me. Either way, itís an interesting read and gave me a pretty basic understanding of the beginning of modern conservatism.

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