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Thread: Obama has change of heart about Bush tax cuts as polls favor McCain

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    Obama has change of heart about Bush tax cuts as polls favor McCain

    first campaign finance, then FISA, then Iraqi withdrawal...how soon before hussien declares himself anti-abortion???

    [QUOTE][B]Obama has change of heart about Bush tax cuts as polls favor McCain[/B]
    By Ross Balano, Midwest Voices Columnist 2008

    [B]Democrat presidential candidate Barack Obama had a change of heart yesterday about one of his major campaign issues; the Bush Tax Cuts.[/B]

    The Associated Press quotes Obama as now saying that “he would delay rescinding President Bush's tax cuts on wealthy Americans if he becomes the next president and the economy is in a recession, suggesting such an increase would further hurt the economy.”

    Two things struck me about this comment.

    First; he uses the term increase. This is the first time I’ve heard him admit that rescinding the Bush cuts would in reality be a tax increase.

    Second; he admits that an increase would hurt the economy.

    For about as long as he has been running for president, which seems like forever, Obama has been preaching the woes of the Bush Tax Cuts. For those of you in Alma, those are the tax cuts pushed through congress by President Bush that Obama and fellow Democrats claim were “tax breaks for the rich” and are “shrinking the middle class.” Repealing that work of the evil Bush administration was “job one.” So why the change of heart?

    Has Obama had an awakening to the fact that the Democrat economic policies of more taxes are flawed? Or, have Democrats decided to abandon the ugly policy of class warfare politics? No to both.

    Obama’s hedging his bets are a result of one thing and one thing only; polls! Virtually all of the polls are now showing John McCain either ahead or tied with Obama. USA TODAY has McCain up by 4 and Real Clear Politics, the average of all the major polls, show McCain up by one. This wasn’t supposed to happen, was it? This was supposed to be a cake walk for Obama.

    The bloom is off the rose. The American people are too savvy to be fooled for very long. Obama is losing appeal and is getting desperate. Why else would he embrace one of Bush’s ideas?

    [/QUOTE]

    [url]http://voices.kansascity.com/node/2015[/url]

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    John kerry without job experience or the military service.

    Wonder if kerry has a brother that lives in a mud hut and makes $12 a year too?

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    you are right. I would hate to have a president who has the ability to change his plans for the good of the country...

    that SOB....I want a president who no matter right or wrong, sticks to his guns

    I guess you guys are right, though...Obama just wants to tax, tax, tax

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    PREDICTION- McCain runs away with this election....I smell a landslide.

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    flip flops are a great invention, but not so much when it comes to politics.

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    [QUOTE=piney;2737175]you are right. I would hate to have a president who has the ability to change his plans for the good of the country...

    that SOB....I want a president who no matter right or wrong, sticks to his guns

    I guess you guys are right, though...Obama just wants to tax, tax, tax[/QUOTE]

    Dude, seriously? What about Obama saying the tax cuts are structurally unfair, how they harm the middle class? He's been saying that forever. Now, all of a sudden, he's saying the exact opposite and you have no problem with that. Nothing has changed at all about how one would interpret tax cuts and their effects, not a thing. What has changed is Obama's position in the polls. That's it. He's not changing his tune for the good of the country, he's changing his tune for the good of Barack Obama's election chances.

    Are you honestly this far gone that you won't even admit this??? C'mon man, seriously. You think he's now against raising taxes because its good for the country? puh-lease.

    And for the record, I do believe Obama wants to raise taxes. I think this is a feint to the center because of slipping poll numbers. Ditto for McCain - McCain's no tax cutter either!
    Last edited by jets5ever; 09-08-2008 at 02:18 PM.

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    [QUOTE=Come Back to NY;2737044]first campaign finance, then FISA, then Iraqi withdrawal...how soon before hussien declares himself anti-abortion???



    [url]http://voices.kansascity.com/node/2015[/url][/QUOTE]

    This is all too "Thomas Jefferson and the purchase of the Louisiana Territory: Small Government hypocrite changes his tune upon being elected".

    He's not saying he won't repeal the Bush tax cuts. Obama's saying he will not do it while the economy is in the sh*tter.

    I think this is making a mountain out of a mole hill. If you really want this election to be about phrases being taken out of context and who can "stay on message" better than the other guy, I think your interpretation of Democracy is flawed.

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    [QUOTE=piney;2737175]you are right. I would hate to have a president who has the ability to change his plans for the good of the country...

    that SOB....I want a president who no matter right or wrong, sticks to his guns

    I guess you guys are right, though...Obama just wants to tax, tax, tax[/QUOTE]its called folding like a house of cards.just because you're down a few points in the polls.talk about standing up to what you believe in.but he's no dummy either so maybe he's just saying all this stuff.i mean he is a politician

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    [QUOTE=MachineGunFunk;2737369]This is all too "Thomas Jefferson and the purchase of the Louisiana Territory: Small Government hypocrite changes his tune upon being elected".

    He's not saying he won't repeal the Bush tax cuts. Obama's saying he will not do it while the economy is in the sh*tter.

    I think this is making a mountain out of a mole hill. If you really want this election to be about phrases being taken out of context and who can "stay on message" better than the other guy, I think your interpretation of Democracy is flawed.[/QUOTE]

    GDP grew at 3.3% last quarter. I thought the Bush cuts were unfair and didn't harm the economy and actually were irresponsible? That's what Democrats like Obama have been saying forever.

    If you don't think Obama is reacting to momentum from McCain, you are crazy.

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    [quote=jets5ever;2737363]Dude, seriously? What about Obama saying the tax cuts are structurally unfair, how they harm the middle class? He's been saying that forever. Now, all of a sudden, he's saying the exact opposite and you have no problem with that. Nothing has changed at all about how one would interpret tax cuts and their effects, not a thing. What has changed is Obama's position in the polls. That's it. He's not changing his tune for the good of the country, he's changing his tune for the good of Barack Obama's election chances.

    Are you honestly this far gone that you won't even admit this??? C'mon man, seriously. You think he's now against raising taxes because its good for the country? puh-lease.

    And for the record, I do believe Obama wants to raise taxes. I think this is a feint to the center because of slipping poll numbers. Ditto for McCain - McCain's no tax cutter either![/quote]

    I'm not an economist, and I don't have an elitist Ivy League eductation like you do, but how does saying he will "delay" the tax cuts have anything to do with poll numbers? He is saying that he will do it, just not right away. Could it be possible that he actually talked to experts and they suggest phasing them out? It is not admitting that the tax cuts were good to begin with either. Not all mistakes are easily reversed.

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    [QUOTE=jets5ever;2737387]GDP grew at 3.3% last quarter. I thought the Bush cuts were unfair and didn't harm the economy and actually were irresponsible? That's what Democrats like Obama have been saying forever.

    If you don't think Obama is reacting to momentum from McCain, you are crazy.[/QUOTE]

    The simple truth about the Bush tax cuts is this: They are unfair [B]and [/B]they do help the economy.

    So you either have a democrat like Obama, who admits that, or a democrat with no brains who will make the economy worse.

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    [QUOTE=Tucker134;2737194]PREDICTION- McCain runs away with this election....I smell a landslide.[/QUOTE]

    I think McCain will beat Obama in the debates and that Palin will hold her own, but this country is far too divided for it to be a landslide. Though it doesn't take many more popular votes for a candidate to own in the electoral college.

    And to get back to the topic at hand, if this is true it's... disappointing. One of the things I liked about Obama was that he would remove the tax cuts for the wealthy. Yes they helped the stock market from falling and the economy from doing worse than it did, but at some point you have to pull away and assess the big picture. The people who are most affected by this downturn are receiving no more help than those who do not need it. It's like reverse welfare and it's ridiculous.

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    [QUOTE=piney;2737175]you are right. I would hate to have a president who has the ability to change his plans for the good of the country...

    that SOB....I want a president who no matter right or wrong, sticks to his guns

    I guess you guys are right, though...Obama just wants to tax, tax, tax[/QUOTE]

    change plans for the "good of the country".....

    funny thing- obama never mentioned these potential change of plans when he was campaigning for the rat-wing candidacy....nope- just said he would tax the rich and seek "economic justice".....

    just like he didn't say he would sign a FISA bill giving communications company's retroactive protection.....nope- just said he would filibuster any bill which offered such protection....

    just like he didn't say he'd leave the troops in Iraq....nope- said he'd pull them all out in 16 months regardless....

    if you are looking for a candidate who has the ability to change for the betterment of the country obama [B]PALES[/B] in comparison to McCain...to say otherwise if completely foolhardy....

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    [QUOTE=Das Ken;2737444]

    but at some point you have to pull away and assess the big picture. The people who are most affected by this downturn are receiving no more help than those who do not need it. It's like reverse welfare and it's ridiculous.[/QUOTE]

    So you think fair taxes are unAmerican? :cool:

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    [QUOTE=asuusa;2738262]So you think fair taxes are unAmerican? :cool:[/QUOTE]

    Haha... no. But defining fair taxes as all people taxed equally is.

    A millionaire can survive giving up a fifth of his earnings in taxes. A person who only earns 20k a year could not.

    Bush's tax cuts favor the wealthy because they save them a disproportionate amount compared to what the lower class receives. If they were adjusted so that the wealthy got a smaller cut and the lower classes a little more of one, they would be better off. So in a way I do support the Bush tax cuts, just not in their current form.

    What I don't agree with is Obama trying to increase taxes on the rich to absurd levels. It smacks of redistribution of wealth in the most unamerican of ways... taking it from those who earn it and giving it to those who don't.

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    [QUOTE=piney;2737175]you are right. I would hate to have a president who has the ability to change his plans for the good of the country...

    that SOB....I want a president who no matter right or wrong, sticks to his guns

    I guess you guys are right, though...Obama just wants to tax, tax, tax[/QUOTE]

    Wow.

    Mr. Independent is on the scene.

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    [QUOTE=Das Ken;2738291]Haha... no. But defining fair taxes as all people taxed equally is.

    A millionaire can survive giving up a fifth of his earnings in taxes. A person who only earns 20k a year could not.

    [/QUOTE]

    Surviving has nothing to do with what's fair!

    Fair means, what? That everyone is treated the same regardless of race, sex, religion, income, or any other distinction, right?

    "Fair taxation" means that everyone is taxed the same % of their income, yet I hear all the liberal 'rats claiming that W's tax cuts allowed the rich not to pay their "fair" share! That's BS, they already pay MORE than their fair share!

    BTW, my income is about dead center of middle-class, so I'm not some rich dude trying to keep more of my money!

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    [QUOTE=asuusa;2738689]Surviving has nothing to do with what's fair!

    Fair means, what? That everyone is treated the same regardless of race, sex, religion, income, or any other distinction, right?

    "Fair taxation" means that everyone is taxed the same % of their income, yet I hear all the liberal 'rats claiming that W's tax cuts allowed the rich not to pay their "fair" share! That's BS, they already pay MORE than their fair share!

    BTW, my income is about dead center of middle-class, so I'm not some rich dude trying to keep more of my money![/QUOTE]

    I wish I was making this argument as a rich guy trying to keep his money.

    So the problem with fair is that it's objective. You could argue that it's not fair that a black youth isn't allowed into a good college because he had to deal with a dysfunctional education system and unqualified teachers.

    You could also argue that it's unfair that a white student is denied entrance to a university to make room for less qualified minority students.

    With our issue, would it be right if all people are taxed at a fixed rate when some can barely scrape together enough for food and alcohol while others are born with a silver spoon (and a land rover... and a trust fund... and so on)?

    The answer is not yes.

    An example is the Fairness Doctrine which is trying to make sure that both sides get equal time on radio and television. Possibly even the internet. That forces us to give up our right, freedom of speech, for what's supposedly fair. And affirmative action forces us to give up our idea of equality for what's fair.

    Instead what you are doing is equating fairness with equality, which is certainly not the case as seen with AA.

    So I'll continue... would it be fair if everyone got charged an equal 20% income tax? Sure. But it definitely ain't right that someone is pushed into poverty (and must use gov assistance) because they have to pay the same amount of taxes as the wealthy.

    A graduated rate of taxation, which we currently employ, is actually far better because it taxes according to need. So the rich are taxed more but are still left with more and the poor are taxed less but still have less. Yes, it is a form of income redistribution but it is far better than the the other side of it which is having a welfare state.

    Why a welfare state? Since we are all equal in the eyes of the government, they can not allow our weakest to simply fade away but must intervene to help them. AKA welfare, which I and most Republicans greatly oppose in it's current form. Therefore I'll take a little income redistribution rather than full blown socialism.

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