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Thread: Palin looking to attack our allies.

  1. #1
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    Palin looking to attack our allies.

    Crazy STuff. Why would she attack Pakistan they are our allies.

  2. #2
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    [QUOTE=LanceMehl;2745919]Crazy STuff. Why would she attack Pakistan they are our allies.[/QUOTE]

    You couldn't put that in this...[url]http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=177630[/url]


    Btw, YES!!!! She wants new world order!!! Hide the wife and kids!!! All Hail Hockey Mom with Nukes!!!!

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    [QUOTE=LanceMehl;2745919]Crazy STuff. Why would she attack Pakistan they are our allies.[/QUOTE]

    Uh, Bush signed an order authorizing military action in Pakistan last summer. No shortage of gaffes by her last night, but this wasn't one.

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    Hey Nuu, I see you forgot what the big Republican Knock on Obama was a few months ago.
    Remeber Obama said the same thing and some how the GOP turned it into the fact he wanted to attack our allies.
    Funny way to spins things. I guess the GOP has a very poor short term memory.

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    [QUOTE=LanceMehl;2746080]Hey Nuu, I see you forgot what the big Republican Knock on Obama was a few months ago.
    Remeber Obama said the same thing and some how the GOP turned it into the fact he wanted to attack our allies.
    Funny way to spins things. I guess the GOP has a very poor short term memory.[/QUOTE]
    Actually the knock was on the media for praising Obama's boldness and backbone for proposing what's essentially existing Bush policy. And no, Bush never gets credited with anything.

    Hope. Change.

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=sackdance;2746091]Actually the knock was on the media for praising Obama's boldness and backbone for proposing what's essentially existing Bush policy. And no, Bush never gets credited with anything.

    Hope. Change.[/QUOTE]

    Actually, if you remember what happened, it went like this:

    Obama made the statement about making strikes without Pkaistan's permission against AQ in Pakistan at a debate in January, when the Bush policy was not known.

    McCain and others all called it naive. And then, a few weeks later, the Washington Post reported that we had actually killed a top AQ terrorist with a strike from an unmanned drone in Pakistan, meaning we already adopted the policy Obama had suggested and McCain and Clinton had derided. (This is what Obama's "he won't go to the cave where lives" line his speech the other day referred to.)

    So, yes, Obama and Bush were aligned on that issue at the time, but nobody --including Obama and McCain-- had any idea that was the case.

    I will agree with you that Bush deserves credit for changing course in Pakistan. He has changed course on quite a few foreign policy things in the last year or two, mostly for the better.

    Now, mind you, he's never admitted he was wrong in the first place, but his actions say that pretty loudly.

  7. #7
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2746132]I will agree with you that Bush deserves credit for changing course in Pakistan. He has changed course on quite a few foreign policy things in the last year or two, mostly for the better.

    Now, mind you, he's never admitted he was wrong in the first place, but his actions say that pretty loudly.[/QUOTE]

    You realize what a bumbling fool Lincoln was in handeling the Civil War before he finally got the right leadership in the military?

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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2746138]You realize what a bumbling fool Lincoln was in handeling the Civil War before he finally got the right leadership in the military?[/QUOTE]

    Sure. But the Civil War was a war of necessity. He had to fight it to save the Union.

    Iraq was purely optional. We went in on our terms and at a time of our choosing. So the "early" (and by early I mean the first five years) incompetence is far less excusable.

    I'd also say that Bush was very slow to recognize the incompetence of people like Franks, Bremer and Rumsfeld, which was pretty quickly apparent to everyone else.

    He ultimately made very good appointments in Petraeus and, especially, Gates, but he delayed making those changes until the end of the 2006 campaign cycle because he was afraid of the political consequences of acknowledging error.

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2746209]Sure. But the Civil War was a war of necessity. He had to fight it to save the Union.

    Iraq was purely optional. We went in on our terms and at a time of our choosing. So the "early" (and by early I mean the first five years) incompetence is far less excusable.

    I'd also say that Bush was very slow to recognize the incompetence of people like Franks, Bremer and Rumsfeld, which was pretty quickly apparent to everyone else.

    He ultimately made very good appointments in Petraeus and, especially, Gates, but he delayed making those changes until the end of the 2006 campaign cycle because he was afraid of the political consequences of acknowledging error.[/QUOTE]


    Why haven't the Democrats recognized Gates and Petraeus as competent and not tried to destoy their efforts the day they took over? If everything is apparent, than apparenty Bush was dumb 5 years ago got it right two years ago and the people who want to replace him are wrong now. How does that make the argument against McCain and for Obama?

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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2746554]Why haven't the Democrats recognized Gates and Petraeus as competent and not tried to destoy their efforts the day they took over? If everything is apparent, than apparenty Bush was dumb 5 years ago got it right two years ago and the people who want to replace him are wrong now. How does that make the argument against McCain and for Obama?[/QUOTE]

    I think the problem with this stance is that the policy arguments McCain is currently making are the same ones Bush made in 2004 and, via his conduct, has since admitted were wrong.

    One does have to give McCain credit for backing the surge, which has helped make an awful situation merely a bad one. One also has to give him blame for being probably the single biggest --and earliest-- cheerleader in congress for a war that has not served our strategic interests and has undermined our fight against AQ and the Taliban.

    I know what I consider to be the more costly error of the two.

  11. #11
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    [IMG]http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Pa2xrvJ7xpA/SMgq1sC9MRI/AAAAAAAAAJs/ufXLgqLel2w/s320/pic18333.jpg[/IMG]

  12. #12
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2746597]I think the problem with this stance is that the policy arguments McCain is currently making are the same ones Bush made in 2004 and, via his conduct, has since admitted were wrong.

    One does have to give McCain credit for backing the surge, which has helped make an awful situation merely a bad one. One also has to give him blame for being probably the single biggest --and earliest-- cheerleader in congress for a war that has not served our strategic interests and has undermined our fight against AQ and the Taliban.

    I know what I consider to be the more costly error of the two.[/QUOTE]

    None of us know what impact if any the war in Iraq is having on our battle against AQ. That's simply more second guessing. McCain was right about us not having the manpower in Iraq to do the job. McCain did more than back the surge he was critical of our man power from day one.

    Plenty of Democrats were for the war and cheerleaded for it until it became a political liability. Joe Liberman was the Democratic VP candidate for the Dems before the party basically black balled him, until he won and they needed his vote to run the committees.

    Nothing wrong with good partisan politics but the left in this country went to far when Bush finally changed course and tried to both keep the war going and rooting for its failure just to win the Presidency and extend their lead in Congress.

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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2746620]None of us know what impact if any the war in Iraq is having on our battle against AQ. That's simply more second guessing. McCain was right about us not having the manpower in Iraq to do the job. McCain did more than back the surge he was critical of our man power from day one.

    Plenty of Democrats were for the war and cheerleaded for it until it became a political liability. Joe Liberman was the Democratic VP candidate for the Dems before the party basically black balled him, until he won and they needed his vote to run the committees.

    Nothing wrong with good partisan politics but the left in this country went to far when Bush finally changed course and tried to both keep the war going and rooting for its failure just to win the Presidency and extend their lead in Congress.[/QUOTE]

    I would agree that the left ought to give credit where credit is due to Gates and Petraeus, and to Bush for hiring them. They are very competent people and, if he wins, Obama would be wise to keep both around in his administration, imo.

    I think there is a lot of emotion --much of it completely justified-- in the way we went to war in Iraq, and the snide dismissals from Bush et al of people who were ultimately correct to have doubts about it.

    At the end of the day, we invaded to rid them of arms they did not have and did so at the expense of finishing the job in the more crucial fight in Afghanistan. That is a strategic blunder and, while Bush deserves some credit for cleaning it up to a degree (it is still an enormous mess of his making), the cleanup doesn't come close to making up for the original blunder.

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