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Thread: Why Not to Trust the Bailout

  1. #1
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    Why Not to Trust the Bailout

    Lets take a look at the fed's track record over the past year...

    1. Economic stimulus package (200 billion) --failed

    2. Huge slashes to interest rates -- failed

    3. Bear-Stearns bailout (30 billion) -- failed

    4. AIG bailout (85 billion) -- failed

    Everything the fed has done to date has been a complete failure--and don't forget that was precluded by years of being completely asleep at the switch as regards oversight. Now, completely panicked, they want to throw 700 billion (some economists put the figure at 1 trillion) of taxpayer dollars at the financials in the blind hope that somehow things will all work out.

    Bad as that is, it's actually much worse. This is a stark power grab by the fed, possibly the biggest in the history of the United States. The Constitution gives the power of spending tax dollars to the Congress--ELECTED officials. Paulson wants the fed, unelected officials, vested with the power to spend taxpayer dollars at will, without any accountability or oversight by a higher body (he actually said this). Lack of accountability and oversight is a big part of the reason we are where we are now, and he actually wants that behavior codified into law.

    There's also the little issue of throwing capitalism out the window and turning America into a socialist country. I won't belabor the irony that it's happening during a Republican administration but you have to shake your head in disbelief.

    Finally, the scare tactics being employed by the fed should have your BS meter pegged. Today in public statements Paulson admonished the public for being angry when they should be, in his words, frightened. Frightened enough, I guess, to agree to go along with whatever the fed wants. Paulson pooh-poohed public demands that executives at these failing banks be held accountable for their actions--the actions that have led us to the brink of a depression. No firings and certainly no investigations into wrongdoing is his position. Only grudgingly today (and in the vaguest of terms) did he agree to place some sort of limit on executive salaries at the companies taxpayers are being asked to rescue. He said executive salary was an insignificant issue. I beg to differ. CEOs whose actions drive the country to the brink of depression do not deserve taxpayer funded 20 million a year salaries and 100 million retirement packages. More likely they deserve 10 years in prison. The fact that nothing will happen to them is half of the real problem. That Paulson doesn't see it is the other half.
    Last edited by BushyTheBeaver; 09-25-2008 at 01:29 AM.

  2. #2
    Well put!

    If it were 1770, we'd tar and feather these a-holes and then hang them for treason.
    Paulson is a joke and the idiots who appointed him are bigger jokes.
    A retired Goldman investment banker at the helm. Great.
    Like he might hold any of the CEO rip-off artists accountable.
    They're all his old cronies.

  3. #3
    I barely trust Bernanke.

    I don't trust Paulson.

    I don't trust Bush.

    700 B is alot of scratch to give with no strings

    and there's no guarantees it will work.

  4. #4
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    Here's an article about some alternatives... which would you choose?

    [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/23/AR2008092303695.html"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/23/AR2008092303695.html[/URL]

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=Das Ken;2771572]Here's an article about some alternatives... which would you choose?

    [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/23/AR2008092303695.html"]http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/23/AR2008092303695.html[/URL][/QUOTE]

    Do any of them include holding the accountable accountable? Or safeguards to and oversight of taxpayer investment?
    Last edited by BushyTheBeaver; 09-25-2008 at 02:07 AM.

  6. #6
    Based on the hearings, Bush, Hary Reid, Chris Dodd, Nancy Pelosi, Shumer and especially Barny Frank should be outright impeached.

    Where are the top economists from academia testifying on alternate plans? Congress is about to spend 700 Billion dollars without having legitimate hearings about options. They are dealing with one plan with some tweeks for political points that serve no ones interest. We need real hearings which are basically presentations without the grand standing. We haven't had them and Barney Frank is working the deal behind the scenes. I didn't even have an opportunity to vote for or against Barney Frank.

    Bernake is about the only person with the academic understanding thats's in the room and this is not his thing its Treasury's. This is being rammed down our throats and sweept under the rug.

    If McCain is really is coming back to Washington to do something instead of just grandstanding, he will stop this deal dead in its tracks until legitimate hearings and alternate plans are presented.

  7. #7
    I don't trust it at all. It's being sold in the same manner that the Iraq war was sold - We are in grave danger... there's no time to think about or discuss this because the alternative is too frightening... if we wait for proof, the smoking gun could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

    Give me a break. The past 8 years has seen an incredible tranfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich. CEO's get millions of dollars a year for eliminating (outsourcing) middle class jobs and we've seen tax breaks for healthy corporations and super wealthy people.

    Now they want to scare us into giving a 700 Billion handout to wall street fat cats. It doesn't smell right.

  8. #8
    [QUOTE=dcJet;2771769]I don't trust it at all. It's being sold in the same manner that the Iraq war was sold - We are in grave danger... there's no time to think about or discuss this because the alternative is too frightening... if we wait for proof, the smoking gun could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.

    Give me a break. The past 8 years has seen an incredible tranfer of wealth from the middle class to the super rich. CEO's get millions of dollars a year for eliminating (outsourcing) middle class jobs and we've seen tax breaks for healthy corporations and super wealthy people.

    Now they want to scare us into giving a 700 Billion handout to wall street fat cats. It doesn't smell right.[/QUOTE]

    It's Barney Frank and Chris Dodd along with Nancy and Harry who are going to do this. You know the friends of the downtrodden masses.

  9. #9
    another thing I don't like about this situation

    right now the banking industry has paid lobbysts down in DC chewing these people's ears off about how they need help, and how they gave all this money over the years etc.

    simple question where are OUR lobbyists? who is sticking up for the taxpayer?

    i don't think this will end well...

  10. #10
    And they're trying to rush this through congress. Why is the solution always just to throw money at the problem? This stinks.

  11. #11
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    While this does suck, and the guilty should be punished, perhaps an analogy?

    If you're on a ship and it starts sinking because the crew was negligent, do you:

    A. start bailing water/jump in the lifeboats
    B. stand around yelling at the crew about how stupid they are

    There's always time for an Inquisition later...

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=quantum;2771816]While this does suck, and the guilty should be punished, perhaps an analogy?

    If you're on a ship and it starts sinking because the crew was negligent, do you:

    A. start bailing water/jump in the lifeboats
    B. stand around yelling at the crew about how stupid they are

    There's always time for an Inquisition later...[/QUOTE]

    Bad analogy. The markets are looking for action but that doesn't mean rash action needs to be taken. There are other ways to get liquidity into the banking industry without taking possesion of all the bad paper.

    Does the US taxpayer end up guaranteeing the assets that were bought by foreign banks? Do we even know?

    The reason the short rules were changed was to give us time.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=bitonti;2771496]I barely trust Bernanke.

    I don't trust Paulson.

    I don't trust Bush.

    700 B is alot of scratch to give with no strings

    and there's no guarantees it will work.[/QUOTE]

    Add "I don't trust the Senate" and "I don't trust the House" to that list, and /signed.

  14. #14
    flushingjet
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    All the economic stimulus package and interest rate slashing failed was
    to fail to cause a recession.

    Yes, words I can trust in from a beaver who's a ***** cat.

  15. #15
    [QUOTE=quantum;2771816]While this does suck, and the guilty should be punished, perhaps an analogy?

    If you're on a ship and it starts sinking because the crew was negligent, do you:

    A. start bailing water/jump in the lifeboats
    B. stand around yelling at the crew about how stupid they are

    There's always time for an Inquisition later...[/QUOTE]

    Sorry, no. Heads must roll as well, and not after the fact.

    I'd say the real analogy here is:

    You're in a Boat, your crew sails over Niagra Falls. Do You:

    A. Buy a vastly more expensive Boat (at taxpayer expense), Hire the Same Crew to Run It, Do Not Even ask why the Sailed Over the Falls

    B. Fire the Crew. Find a new crew.

    Sorry, but the President, Congress, the Govt. and Wall Street all helped cause this embarassment. They can pay for it with their heads first.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2771862]Sorry, no. Heads must roll as well, and not after the fact.

    I'd say the real analogy here is:

    You're in a Boat, your crew sails over Niagra Falls. Do You:

    A. Buy a vastly more expensive Boat (at taxpayer expense), Hire the Same Crew to Run It, Do Not Even ask why the Sailed Over the Falls

    B. Fire the Crew. Find a new crew.

    Sorry, but the President, Congress, the Govt. and Wall Street all helped cause this embarassment. They can pay for it with their heads first.[/QUOTE]

    Nooooo - if you're in the boat and it goes over the falls, you're dead. End of story. While I"ll allow my analogy is not perfect (and none really are), there is a time factor to the bailout.

  17. #17
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    Something Bush said last night that I didn't notice any of the pundits discuss...[B]the Gov't. is the entity with the resources and patience to ride out this storm.[/B]

    While it is difficult for many of us to accept this, think about this as a very deep pocketed investor, because in reality that's what is taking place here. Buy up the bad loans, of which I think I heard only 5% are in default, at deep discounts, and sell them later when the housing market and people's finances have stabilized. I know it's not that simple, however it should work. btw, there is no guarantee that all 700B will be used, that is what they feel is a worse case scenario.

    I know there are a great many politicians I respect against this plan, but I truly think it could work.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=jetswin;2771889]Something Bush said last night that I didn't notice any of the pundits discuss...[B]the Gov't. is the entity with the resources and patience to ride out this storm.[/B]

    While it is difficult for many of us to accept this, think about this as a very deep pocketed investor, because in reality that's what is taking place here. Buy up the bad loans, of which I think I heard only 5% are in default, at deep discounts, and sell them later when the housing market and people's finances have stabilized. I know it's not that simple, however it should work. btw, there is no guarantee that all 700B will be used, that is what they feel is a worse case scenario.

    I know there are a great many politicians I respect against this plan, but I truly think it could work.[/QUOTE]

    Of course it could work but don't you think Congress owes the US Taxpayer real hearings with instead of them speaking some of the great economists from business, banking and academia spoke and put forward some alternate proposals?

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2771895]Of course it could work but don't you think Congress owes the US Taxpayer real hearings with instead of them speaking some of the great economists from business, banking and academia spoke and put forward some alternate proposals?[/QUOTE]

    Congress doesn't seem to have any trouble putting through tax increases to support their pork, taxpayer be damned, this is a chance to save the tax payer's future.

    These guys are not lying when they say the markets are not functioning.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=BushyTheBeaver;2771434]Lets take a look at the fed's track record over the past year...

    1. Economic stimulus package (200 billion) --failed

    2. Huge slashes to interest rates -- failed

    3. Bear-Stearns bailout (30 billion) -- failed

    4. AIG bailout (85 billion) -- failed

    [/QUOTE]

    The current bailout proposal is merely just another in a long line of Karl Rove's political manuevers to try to turn a catastrophic f*ck up by the republicans into a political gain by attempting to turn the tables. Now, if the bailout is put through McSame can say "be patient", if the bailout isn't put through McSame can argue "I have the solution and the democrats won't let me put it through."

    The bailout will ultimately fail horribly just like pretty much everything else the current republican regime has done. The only important thing is that it will help McBush get elected and then 2-3 years from now when we're in another recession they can have a couple orange alerts or gay marriage bills or Bush can get his family friend Osama Bin Laden to produce another video to try to scare the American public and McSh*tbag's approval ratings will go back up.

    After the past 8 years with the disaster in Iraq and the current economic crisis I no longer trust anything the republicans propose. It stinks, it's no good, it's trash.
    Last edited by VincenzoTestaverde; 09-25-2008 at 11:23 AM.

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