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Thread: Why Not to Trust the Bailout

  1. #21
    YES! We need hearings and transparency. Not just this trust me BS they're trying to sell.

    What is the downside? They won't even tell us. All we get is 'Our entire economy is in danger'. Well let it break. this is capitalism damn it... you have cycles... you have recessions... people should pay for their bad business decisions, not be rescued.

    And what is the downside? Double digit unemloyment? inflation? 25% drop in the stock markets? let it happen. We'll recover in 5 to 10 years with new players and companies.

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=dcJet;2771918]YES! We need hearings and transparency. Not just this trust me BS they're trying to sell.

    What is the downside? They won't even tell us. All we get is 'Our entire economy is in danger'. Well let it break. this is capitalism damn it... you have cycles... you have recessions... people should pay for their bad business decisions, not be rescued.

    And what is the downside? Double digit unemloyment? inflation? 25% drop in the stock markets? let it happen. We'll recover in 5 to 10 years with new players and companies.[/QUOTE]

    Personally I don't think this generation could handle a great depression. It is too spoiled, too entitled, too unskilled. Plus a world war would not pull us out of it. This is all my opinion, not based on anything else, however the possibility of a depression is very real.

  3. #23
    [QUOTE=VincenzoTestaverde;2771915]The current bailout proposal is merely just another in a long line of Karl Rove's political manuevers to try to turn a catastrophic f*ck up by the republicans into a political gain by attempting to turn the tables. Now, if the bailout is put through McSame can say "be patient", if the bailout isn't put through McSame can argue "I have the solution and the democrats won't let me put it through."

    The bailout will ultimately fail horribly just like pretty much everything else the current republican regime has done. The only important thing is that it will help McBush get elected and then 2-3 years from now when we're in another recession they can have a couple orange alerts or gay marriage bills or Bush can get his family friend Osama Bin Laden to produce another video to try to scare the American public and McSh*tbag's approval ratings will go back up.

    After the past 8 years with the disaster in Iraq and the current economic crisis I no longer trust anything the republicans propose. It stinks, it's no good, it's trash.[/QUOTE]


    This bailout deal was negiotated with the Democrats before it ever came to the hearings. This is Barny Franks deal not Bush's.

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2771936]Personally I don't think this generation could handle a great depression. It is too spoiled, too entitled, too unskilled.[/QUOTE]

    I know, we're just a nation of whiners in the immortal words of McCain's #1 economic guy.

  5. #25
    [QUOTE=VincenzoTestaverde;2771954]I know, we're just a nation of whiners in the immortal words of McCain's #1 economic guy.[/QUOTE]


    Actually, we are a country of whiners. We have become a country of entitlements. We are entitled to a home we can't afford. We are entitled to health care and college education. When natural disasters occur, we expect the govt to come in, rescue us, and give us gas cards. Instead of actually creating things of value, we have people creating start-ups to get rich quick. We have teenagers that think working at a fast-food joint is "beneath them". We are still wealthier than we've ever been. A cell phone, a somewhat exotic technology only 15-20 years ago, is something almost every KID has today.

  6. #26
    [QUOTE=jetswin;2771936]Personally I don't think this generation could handle a great depression. It is too spoiled, too entitled, too unskilled. Plus a world war would not pull us out of it. This is all my opinion, not based on anything else, however the possibility of a depression is very real.[/QUOTE]

    Great observation... but if hard economic times come, there's no choice is there? The only choice will be to cut back and live within your means.

    I say no bail out. I think the talk of economic depression is probably exaggerated, just like the smoking gun mushroom cloud was. I've lived through times of high inflation and high interest rates and high unemployment and bear markets. It's not the end of the world.

  7. #27
    [QUOTE=Winstonbiggs;2771952]This bailout deal was negiotated with the Democrats before it ever came to the hearings. This is Barny Franks deal not Bush's.[/QUOTE]

    Come on Winston...

    Negotiation is a dialogue intended to resolve disputes, to produce an agreement upon courses of action, to bargain for individual or collective advantage, or to craft outcomes to satisfy various interests.

    How can only one side own a negotiated deal?

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=VincenzoTestaverde;2771954]I know, we're just a nation of whiners in the immortal words of McCain's #1 economic guy.[/QUOTE]

    You sound somewhat like a monday morning QB, or the guy in this thread

    [url]http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178781[/url]

  9. #29
    history has proven that anytime Bush gets in front of the country and says we have to act fast, there's no time, you've just got to trust me, that we should do the opposite of what he's recommending

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2772054]history has proven that anytime Bush gets in front of the country and says we have to act fast, there's no time, you've just got to trust me, that we should do the opposite of what he's recommending[/QUOTE]

    Bit, I'm not sure what has happened to you but you have morphed into the most politically biased person on the board. didn't you claim to be an Independent a few years back?

  11. #31
    if this package, or one similar to it, doesn't go through, we will all be very sorry. the credit market is all but seized. the economy cannot function without it and it isn't going to heal itself. it will stay frozen and nobody will be able to get a mortgage (as if it's easy right now), companies will not be able to borrow money to operate (corporate defaults are already going to be very high in the next few years, but they would be rediculously high if the credit market doesn't open up). so would we rather take the chance that the bailout winds up costing tax payers 700bln, or would you rather have no job and struggle to make payments on a house that's worth 50% of what you think it's worth today?

    blame whoever you want for this mess - those who over-extended credit to the american public and corporations, or those who foolishly took on more debt and mortgage than they could afford... it is what it is and if we don't address it soon, we are all royally screwed...

  12. #32
    [QUOTE=jetswin;2772067]Bit, I'm not sure what has happened to you but you have morphed into the most politically biased person on the board. didn't you claim to be an Independent a few years back?[/QUOTE]

    i've had enough ... i've since registered democrat.

    the real question you should ask yourself jetswin isn't what happened to me but what happened to you?

    you should ask yourself when did you stop caring about the future of the country and only care about the future of the GOP? when did you stop holding your publically elected officials to any standards whatsoever?

    truth be told i'd vote for a homeless person for Prez and expect him to do a better job than this crew of criminals. Im biased, and unashamed. If there has been a President who has screwed up more things in 8 years I'd love to hear about it.

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2772080]i've had enough ... i've since registered democrat.

    the real question you should ask yourself jetswin isn't what happened to me but what happened to you?

    you should ask yourself when did you stop caring about the future of the country and only care about the future of the GOP? when did you stop holding your publically elected officials to any standards whatsoever?

    truth be told i'd vote for a homeless person for Prez and expect him to do a better job than this crew of criminals. Im biased, and unashamed. If there has been a President who has screwed up more things in 8 years I'd love to hear about it.[/QUOTE]

    As soon as the Democrats put up a candidate I'd consider I would consider him. :D

    You have to let your hatred over the Iraq War subside and realize that this is indeed no joke. It has nothing to do with me being Republican or somewhat conservative. This situation has nothing to do with the election, it needs to be resolved.

  14. #34
    [QUOTE=E4orBust;2772072]if this package, or one similar to it, doesn't go through, we will all be very sorry. the credit market is all but seized. the economy cannot function without it and it isn't going to heal itself. it will stay frozen and nobody will be able to get a mortgage (as if it's easy right now), companies will not be able to borrow money to operate (corporate defaults are already going to be very high in the next few years, but they would be rediculously high if the credit market doesn't open up). so would we rather take the chance that the bailout winds up costing tax payers 700bln, or would you rather have no job and struggle to make payments on a house that's worth 50% of what you think it's worth today?

    blame whoever you want for this mess - those who over-extended credit to the american public and corporations, or those who foolishly took on more debt and mortgage than they could afford... it is what it is and if we don't address it soon, we are all royally screwed...[/QUOTE]

    E...

    I keep hearing stories like this but my experience is different. I'm closing tomorrow on a mortgage on my townhouse in Maryland. I had to supply documentation of my income (W2's tax returns) just like in the good old days and the whole thing took 2 weeks and went without a hitch.

    My daughter is buying her first house in Maryland. She had no trouble at all getting a no money down 15 year fixed rate mortgage. The lenders were falling all over themselves to give both of us loans and as a result, we were able to play them against each other to get nice deals.

    The realtor that helped my daughter find her home said things have picked up the last 2 months and properties are starting to move. If you have documented income, you can get a loan.

    how do we explain that?

  15. #35
    [QUOTE=dcJet;2772109]E...

    I keep hearing stories like this but my experience is different. I'm closing tomorrow on a mortgage on my townhouse in Maryland. I had to supply documentation of my income (W2's tax returns) just like in the good old days and the whole thing took 2 weeks and went without a hitch.

    My daughter is buying her first house in Maryland. She had no trouble at all getting a no money down 15 year fixed rate mortgage. The lenders were falling all over themselves to give both of us loans and as a result, we were able to play them against each other to get nice deals.

    The realtor that helped my daughter find her home said things have picked up the last 2 months and properties are starting to move. If you have documented income, you can get a loan.

    how do we explain that?[/QUOTE]

    there are certainly parts of the country that are in better shape than others. the problem is the volume of MBS that's being created is way down, and the investors buying MBS is where the money for your mortgage comes from. i live/work in NYC (for a distressed bond/bank loan hedge fund) and while the housing data right now may not be negative right now, it will be soon... it takes time for current events to effect the housing market, but it will happen... from the corporate side, it's becoming rediculously expensive for companies to raise money, and they simply won't be able to afford it... defaults will rise and so will unemployment...

    i just read a few posts that were mis-informed, so i had to say something..

    for example, the taxpayers are very likely to make money on this deal. the fed will be buying mbs/cmbs/rmbs at well below face value... future recoveries on these securities would have to be zero for the tax payer to lose money... if the bailout has the desired effect and supports the housing market, recoveries will be higher than that, and potentially higher than the price paid...

    i usually don't rant (or post at all), but just had to vent... i will resume simply observing...

  16. #36
    LOL,

    Dude, you have the same amount of posts that I have!

    I woke up angry today too, hence more posts in one day than I've had in 2 years.

    I'm going back to lurking status too right after I cool off.

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=E4orBust;2772141]there are certainly parts of the country that are in better shape than others. the problem is the volume of MBS that's being created is way down, and the investors buying MBS is where the money for your mortgage comes from. i live/work in NYC (for a distressed bond/bank loan hedge fund) and while the housing data right now may not be negative right now, it will be soon... it takes time for current events to effect the housing market, but it will happen... from the corporate side, it's becoming rediculously expensive for companies to raise money, and they simply won't be able to afford it... defaults will rise and so will unemployment...

    i just read a few posts that were mis-informed, so i had to say something..

    for example, the taxpayers are very likely to make money on this deal. the fed will be buying mbs/cmbs/rmbs at well below face value... future recoveries on these securities would have to be zero for the tax payer to lose money... if the bailout has the desired effect and supports the housing market, recoveries will be higher than that, and potentially higher than the price paid...

    i usually don't rant (or post at all), but just had to vent... i will resume simply observing...[/QUOTE]

    much better explanation than I offered, I was trying to say the same thing :cool:

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=BushyTheBeaver;2771434]Lets take a look at the fed's track record over the past year...

    1. Economic stimulus package (200 billion) --failed

    2. Huge slashes to interest rates -- failed

    [B]3. Bear-Stearns bailout (30 billion) -- failed[/B]

    [B]4. AIG bailout (85 billion) -- failed[/B]
    [/QUOTE]

    Please explain the [B]bold[/B] above.

  19. #39
    [QUOTE=E4orBust;2772141]there are certainly parts of the country that are in better shape than others. the problem is the volume of MBS that's being created is way down, and the investors buying MBS is where the money for your mortgage comes from. i live/work in NYC (for a distressed bond/bank loan hedge fund) and while the housing data right now may not be negative right now, it will be soon... it takes time for current events to effect the housing market, but it will happen... from the corporate side, it's becoming rediculously expensive for companies to raise money, and they simply won't be able to afford it... defaults will rise and so will unemployment...

    i just read a few posts that were mis-informed, so i had to say something..

    for example, the taxpayers are very likely to make money on this deal. the fed will be buying mbs/cmbs/rmbs at well below face value... future recoveries on these securities would have to be zero for the tax payer to lose money... if the bailout has the desired effect and supports the housing market, recoveries will be higher than that, and potentially higher than the price paid...

    i usually don't rant (or post at all), but just had to vent... i will resume simply observing...[/QUOTE]


    that said, i personally would like to see this plan not go through. it would be good for my job and create many opportunities for us... but i would prefer specific bankruptcies (like worldcom and enron), rather than a systemic melt-down that will take much longer to reap any benefits from...

  20. #40
    [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2771964]Actually, we are a country of whiners. We have become a country of entitlements. We are entitled to a home we can't afford. We are entitled to health care and college education. When natural disasters occur, we expect the govt to come in, rescue us, and give us gas cards. Instead of actually creating things of value, we have people creating start-ups to get rich quick. We have teenagers that think working at a fast-food joint is "beneath them". We are still wealthier than we've ever been. A cell phone, a somewhat exotic technology only 15-20 years ago, is something almost every KID has today.[/QUOTE]

    :clapper:

    Dead-on

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