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Thread: Dow cratering today

  1. #1

    Dow cratering today

    Down about 5%, and now below 10,000 for the first time since 2004.

    Ugh.

  2. #2
    I've got a fever. And the only prescription. Is more bailouts.

  3. #3
    European markets are also running blood red - at one stage the worst one-day loss since the crash of 1987 over there.

    The question is, will markets quickly rebounce?

    I doubt it - there will be fluctuations both up and down, but this bear market will be one of the most brutal in history.

  4. #4
    Investment advice for those with a focus on the FTSE in London:

    [I]If you had purchased 1000 of Northern Rock shares one year ago it would now be worth 4.95.

    With HBOS, earlier this week your 1000 would have been worth 16.50.

    1000 invested in XL Leisure would now be worth less than 5.

    However, if you bought 1000 worth of Tennents Lager one year ago, drank it all, then took the empty cans to an aluminum re-cycling plant, you would get 21.40.

    So based on the above statistics the best current investment advice is to drink heavily and re-cycle.[/I]

  5. #5
    What's interesting today is that oil prices are also plummeting because of a drop in demand (caused by the economic crisis, no doubt). Over the past year, any real drop in oil prices has sent markets flying. But not today.

  6. #6
    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2791146]What's interesting [B][U]today[/U][/B] is that [B][U]oil prices are also plummeting because of a drop in demand[/U][/B] (caused by the economic crisis, no doubt). Over the past year, any real drop in oil prices has sent markets flying. But not today.[/QUOTE]

    Can you provide some independant proof of this claim, outside it being your opinion?

    Did "demand" plumet worldwide, overnight? How much less per week are you driving, for example, Nuu? I can say I havn't driven a single mile less because of this as yet, and I am decidedly "middle class". Hence my disbelief in the "plumeting demand" theory.

  7. #7
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2791187]Can you provide some independant proof of this claim, outside it being your opinion?

    Did "demand" plumet worldwide, overnight? How much less per week are you driving, for example, Nuu? I can say I havn't driven a single mile less because of this as yet, and I am decidedly "middle class". Hence my disbelief in the "plumeting demand" theory.[/QUOTE]

    Oil traders are speculating lower future demand, not current demand. You may not drive less, but dead businesses don't use oil.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2791187]Can you provide some independant proof of this claim, outside it being your opinion?

    Did "demand" plumet worldwide, overnight? How much less per week are you driving, for example, Nuu? I can say I havn't driven a single mile less because of this as yet, and I am decidedly "middle class". Hence my disbelief in the "plumeting demand" theory.[/QUOTE]

    it's 'expected demand'... these are oil futures we are talking about don't forget


    [url]http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5iuJaEDGnrpdWJE81VdlMdZ4ms97Q[/url]

    "World oil prices have fallen sharply from record high levels above 147 dollars reached in July, on concerns that demand is slowing during a global financial crisis, dealers say. "

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=Black Death;2791141]Investment advice for those with a focus on the FTSE in London:

    [I]If you had purchased 1000 of Northern Rock shares one year ago it would now be worth 4.95.

    With HBOS, earlier this week your 1000 would have been worth 16.50.

    1000 invested in XL Leisure would now be worth less than 5.

    However, if you bought 1000 worth of Tennents Lager one year ago, drank it all, then took the empty cans to an aluminum re-cycling plant, you would get 21.40.

    So based on the above statistics the best current investment advice is to drink heavily and re-cycle.[/I][/QUOTE]

    LOL :D

  10. #10
    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2791188]Oil traders are speculating lower future demand, not current demand. You may not drive less, but dead businesses don't use oil.[/QUOTE]

    What dead businesses?

    The Govt. seems quite willing and able to bail them all out currently.

    But as I said, demand has not yet "plumeted". Price is falling based, as you say, on speculation of a change in supply/demand.

    However, Nuu on many occasions has adamantly denied such a change could occur. Hence his repeated "new domestic drilling will not drop the price more than $0.02 max" posts.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2791193]What dead businesses?

    The Govt. seems quite willing and able to bail them all out currently.

    But as I said, demand has not yet "plumeted". Price is falling based, as you say, on speculation of a change in supply/demand.

    However, Nuu on many occasions has adamantly denied such a change could occur. Hence his repeated "new domestic drilling will not drop the price more than $0.02 max" posts.[/QUOTE]

    well Nuu is right there... as, obviously, the expected drop in demand is pretty severe where-as the expected increase in supply from increased US domestic drilling is very minor

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2791197]well Nuu is right there... as, obviously, the expected drop in demand is pretty severe where-as the expected increase in supply from increased US domestic drilling is very minor[/QUOTE]

    Convenient. Discussing such things with you guys is like driving in circles. Guess supply and demand only works in one direction in your view.

    No worries here, lower the price is, the lower my personal cost. I hope it "plumets" and demand "plumets" as far as it can go.

  13. #13
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2791187]Can you provide some independant proof of this claim, outside it being your opinion?

    Did "demand" plumet worldwide, overnight? How much less per week are you driving, for example, Nuu? I can say I havn't driven a single mile less because of this as yet, and I am decidedly "middle class". Hence my disbelief in the "plumeting demand" theory.[/QUOTE]
    It's not an opinion, statistically the demand is plummeting on the refinery side. Decline in US production, lack of industrial factory orders, increasing unemployment rate...etc. I read an AP article last week with stats showing that the decline is killing Japan and India right now as well.

  14. #14
    Ah, found it.

    [url]http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i5TtajgUpSm7KY5jf-lCJGHBB-tAD93IK4L81[/url]

    The best example I can give you, from my personal experience is this:

    There's countless warehouses and plants out there throughout the country just sitting, not in use. The commercial real estate market is getting killed right now especially on the industrial end. Not only are factories not producing, but they can't even sell the property if they wanted to due to the fact that there simply isn't a need for it. Thus it just sits, and the power companies don't profit, the gas companies don't profit from the lack of employees going to work, the maintenance guys don't make any money for maintaining the equipment, the products aren't getting shipped by truck/plane/train....etc, you get the point. All of it equals a severe decline in energy use, lessening the demand. And this is pretty common right now.

    Same on the retail end. Empty spaces just sit, not in use, people aren't going to them, products aren't getting shipped to them...etc. Same thing.

    Granted, this is just an example, but from what I see every day, it's what I can best provide as a good example to your question.
    Last edited by RutgersJetFan; 10-06-2008 at 01:04 PM.

  15. #15
    [quote=Warfish;2791193]What dead businesses?

    The Govt. seems quite willing and able to bail them all out currently.
    [/quote]

    The folks at Heller Ehrmann (a SF law firm that just dissolved) would beg to differ. My firm looks to be heading in the same direction (thanks to good relationships with the partners and placement on a major case, I'll be fine, thank god). Plenty of other businesses going belly up as well, Fisher.

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2791187]Can you provide some independant proof of this claim, outside it being your opinion?

    Did "demand" plumet worldwide, overnight? How much less per week are you driving, for example, Nuu? I can say I havn't driven a single mile less because of this as yet, and I am decidedly "middle class". Hence my disbelief in the "plumeting demand" theory.[/QUOTE]

    C'mon, you aren't really saying this... gas is not equivalent to oil, but only one by-product. Crude is converted to a multitude of uses, including fuel oil, lubricants, and plastic. Industrial demand for oil is driven by capital growth. When there is recession, oil has to drop, based on predictions about demand. Even gas can be depressed based on number of automobiles and trucks built worldwide, as well as commercial slow-down in the transportation sector.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=Black Death;2791141]Investment advice for those with a focus on the FTSE in London:

    [I]If you had purchased 1000 of Northern Rock shares one year ago it would now be worth 4.95.

    With HBOS, earlier this week your 1000 would have been worth 16.50.

    1000 invested in XL Leisure would now be worth less than 5.

    However, if you bought 1000 worth of Tennents Lager one year ago, drank it all, then took the empty cans to an aluminum re-cycling plant, you would get 21.40.

    So based on the above statistics the best current investment advice is to drink heavily and re-cycle.[/I][/QUOTE]

    LOL. Or just buy shares in Tennents and drink while you make a profit. :yes:

  18. #18
    Never see $50/bl oil again? Hah, take that T.Boone Pickens!

    On the bright side, the Putin's and his ilk are being punished.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2791108]Down about 5%, and now below 10,000 for the first time since 2004.

    Ugh.[/QUOTE]

    Its amazing. Where will the bottom be? 8500???:eek:

    Had my eyes on that Diamonds of the DOW stock for months now. Trades even with the market. I mean how low can this go?

  20. #20
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2791223]C'mon, you aren't really saying this...[/QUOTE]

    I am saying that I continue to be of the position that an increase in domestic drilling would, in fact, help lower the cost of gasoline to Americans such as myself. I am saying that I continue to be of the position that the talking-point-issers who echo the "drilling would only lower the price $0.000002 over 150 years" are incorrect, and I'll leave further discussion of their mtivations to be incorrect aside for now.

    Am I being clear now?

    And it would, all things considered, probably been a more preferable way to achieve that end that the way the market appears to be doing in regardless.

    In any event, as I said, I hope the price of Oil continues to plumet.

    ...although buying some Tennents is looking good too, I must admit.

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