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Thread: At this point, I can't do it. I can't vote for John McCain.

  1. #1

    At this point, I can't do it. I can't vote for John McCain.

    Believe it or not, I'm still undecided. I'm one of those undecided voters that people are starting to whisper about, that small-town anchors are starting to report on, and that campaign volunteers are starting to target.

    Only, I haven't decided on whether I'm going to vote for John McCain or throw my vote away on a third party candidate.

    Here's the deal: I'm a conservative. I adhere to the old school principles of Goldwater and Buckley and Friedman and Reagan. Lower spending, smaller federal government, an accretion of states' rights, and a security policy marked by a strong, domestic defense.

    The Republican Party began it's decline with Bush 41's Presidency, and W has completely destroyed it. His policies, or more accurately, the policies of the men surrounding him, made a mockery of what it used to mean to be conservative. True, 9/11 changed a lot of things, but his departure from some basic values and principles have been very distressing. No longer is the GOP the party of conservative values. There are now two types of liberals in this country: Blatant liberals (Democrats) and closet liberals (Republicans). Some of the small-town, lower tier politicians still get it, and there are good Assemblymen, Congressmen, and Senators who still know how to prioritize their fundamentals. There are a few good conservative governors too, like Palin and Jindal, who give me hope for the future. But right now, the party is a shell of what it once was.

    If McCain had any balls, he would have voted no on the revised bailout package. What happened in the House and Senate last week was the most disgusting display of greed and socialism I have ever seen. The package, a necessary evil on all accounts, was only approved after being jammed full of pork to appease, mollify, and otherwise bribe wary or cautious politicians. While Obama was doing his best to convince people to vote for that aberration, McCain should have put his foot down and called the bill exactly what it was: a joke.

    And I have to say, I agree with flushingjet on one thing: anyone who calls himself a conservative and is voting for Barack Obama is either in denial or an outright liar. Obama embodies everything that goes against the old school values of the conservative movement. Universal (socialized) healthcare? Give me a break. Raising taxes because it's a neighborly thing to do? Well, who cares! They can afford it anyway!... Disgraceful.

    Unfortunately, John McCain is no better. I don't buy this whole "McSame" nonsense, simply because voting on bumper sticker slogans pisses me off. To do so shows a simpleton ignorance and an unwillingness to actually dig a little deeper and do your own research on the candidates. I haven't fully come to this conclusion yet, but this is one solid thought in a long process of mulling back and forth.

    Re: Iraq -- it's about damn time the Iraqis hold up their end of the bargain. I don't go for welfare at home, so why the hell should we continue to hold their hand and pour millions of dollars into that ****hole country? I supported the war to begin with, but the occupation "planning" unraveled at the seams from the get-go.

    Re: Sarah Palin -- a Hail Mary bomb, a publicity stunt that McCain gambled on and lost. I think one day she could be a very good politician on the national scale, and may even inspire a rebirth of the conservative movement within the GOP, but that day is far off. 8-12 years at least. I respect the hell out of her for what she has accomplished, but she's too green right now to be thrust into such a national spotlight.

    Speaking of respect, patriotism is a word that gets thrown around a lot with little to no meaning. John McCain is the very definition of the word. A quintessential patriot. He endured 5 long years of torture (could you imagine that? 5 years!), after refusing to be let out before guys that were in their longer. When he was finally released, he could have emerged a bitter, broken man, angry at his country and severely depressed, but instead he was grateful and inspired. He decided to dedicate the rest of his life to serving his country in a different way, running for office because he genuinely believed that he had to give back to the people and institutions that make this country great. Truly a remarkable story, and 100% a Patriot. You can never take that away from him. But, that reason alone isn't good enough to vote for him.

    So who will I vote for? Well if you say Ron Paul, forget about it. I saw him on Meet the Press several months ago and he came off as a lunatic with a skewed sense of history. At this point, I think I may vote for Bob Barr. Check out this video. He may be full of ****, but at least he PRETENDS to uphold the values of conservatism. McCain can't even do that.

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxPrULE6dUU[/url]

    Anyway, that's where I stand. I would appreciate some input from everyone - the liberals, conservatives, and independents on this board.
    Last edited by JetsFan2012; 10-07-2008 at 12:51 PM.

  2. #2
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    write-in The Good Doctor Ron Paul!!! :yes: :yes: :yes:

  3. #3
    Great post, Paulie. I agree with you 100%. This is one of those "less of two evils" elections.

    The whole bailout mess really pisses me off. Interesting that NBC has pulled the SNL skit about the bailout from their website (and Youtube). But, you can get your fill of Palin skits.

  4. #4
    If you don't care how many Ruth Bader Ginsbergs are on the Supreme Court, vote for Obama.
    But don't complain when you wake up one morning and find out that Osama Bin Laden has the same or more rights than you do.

  5. #5
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    Can't help ya. I'm in the same boat. I'm a Moderate Republican who is currently undecided. The John McCain I knew 8 years ago would have my vote locked up, but he's changed.

    I am so tired of what George has done to our country, I would like to see a big shake up, similar to what's done in football when it just isn't working. That's the only reason I'd vote for Obama.

    I am tired of being in the middle class and having to support everyone. I'm too rich to get help with my daughter's college tuition and too poor to pay it without getting further and further in debt. I'm feeling the middle class squeeze and I don't like it. I'M READY TO REVOLT! :steamin:

  6. #6
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    [QUOTE=jetswinbaby!;2792742]If you don't care how many Ruth Bader Ginsbergs are on the Supreme Court, vote for Obama.
    But don't complain when you wake up one morning and find out that Osama Bin Laden has the same or more rights than you do.[/QUOTE]

    Aren't we there already with the illegals in this country? They get free hospital care and education all on my tax dollar. :mad:

  7. #7
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    Paulie, I am on a very similar page with you.

    I typically lean to the Republican side of things, mostly because for their economic policies, not their social ones. I like small government that protects my rights, builds me roads, and stay the hell out of the rest of my life.

    I also this election have been undecided, but had been leaning towards McCain - until these past 2 weeks.

    The McCain ticket has turned me off completely. Their desperation is sickening. Attacking Obama on his (possible) past affliations is just awful. Stick to the issues, stupid. No one wants to hear anything but, expecially now. Attacking Barack personally now is transparent, and it tells me you have given up all hope of a vitory. And Paulie is right. If McCain wanted to try to turn things around dramatically, he should have come out strongly against this disgrace of a bill referred to as the "Bailout".

    I think we're going to look back on this thing as one of the worst Bills ever passed. All it has done is (maybe) postpone the (definitely) inevitable correction this economy will go through, all the while underhanding our greatest asset: capitalism.

    Its sickening that Obama is our only other option. Some day, somehow, I still hold out hope for a viable 3rd party candidate. Maybe I'm silly, but don't enough of us believe that this 2 party system is failing us miserably that somehow a Cinderella candidate who is actually pursuing a candidacy for the right reasons can rise up? Please?

    I am torn, because I have to vote, as it is my duty as an American citizen. But at this point, I don't think I can do it for McCain.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=jetswinbaby!;2792742]If you don't care how many Ruth Bader Ginsbergs are on the Supreme Court, vote for Obama.
    But don't complain when you wake up one morning and find out that Osama Bin Laden has the same or more rights than you do.[/QUOTE]

    very valid point

  9. #9
    [QUOTE=Guido Monzino;2792758]

    I am torn, because I have to vote, as it is my duty as an American citizen. But at this point, I don't think I can do it for McCain.[/QUOTE]

    I think voting is one of the greatest, coolest privileges to have in this country. I vote every time I have the opportunity, even for little positions in my hometown. I could never not vote.

    That being said, I live in NJ, and my vote is meaningless. I have the "luxury" to throw it away on a guy who doesn't have a shot in hell in winning.

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2792763]I think voting is one of the greatest, coolest privileges to have in this country. I vote every time I have the opportunity, even for little positions in my hometown. I could never not vote.

    That being said, I live in NJ, and my vote is meaningless. I have the "luxury" to throw it away on a guy who doesn't have a shot in hell in winning.[/QUOTE]

    +1

    Not voting is just about the stupidest thing you can do.

    We made it through Clinton's presidency (barely), I think we'll be ok after an Obama one. I'm ok with alternating the office, keeps both sides in check (a little).

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2792763]I think voting is one of the greatest, coolest privileges to have in this country. I vote every time I have the opportunity, even for little positions in my hometown. I could never not vote.

    That being said, I live in NJ, and my vote is meaningless. I have the "luxury" to throw it away on a guy who doesn't have a shot in hell in winning.[/QUOTE]

    NJ is not locked up yet

  12. #12
    [QUOTE=jetswin;2792772]NJ is not locked up yet[/QUOTE]

    As long as Lautenberg wins his senate seat again and Corzine continues to do the worst, most inexcusable job in the history of state governing, NJ is a lost cause.

  13. #13
    Paulie,

    If you don't like what your party has become, I would advise you to vote for a third party. I'm not going to tell you to vote Obama because, even though I think he could be a great president, I know he's not your guy on the issues that matter to you.

    But, if you want the GOP to change, you have to kick it out of power. Parties cannot reform themselves while clinging to power. It doesn't happen.

    Frankly, if Obama wins, the GOP will be able to redefine itself in opposition to his program, which will increase the size of government one way or the other. Political necessity will force it to take that tack, because the out of power party always definies itself in opposition to what's in power. (See Dems, Bush; Republicans, Clinton, etc.)

    The way to wind up with a party that is aligned with your kind of conservatism is to exile it for a few years. So vote for Barr. Send a message.

    You won't get policies you like under Obama. But you probably wouldn't under McCain, either. And, in a few years, you just may get a party you actually want to vote for this way.

  14. #14
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2792763]I think voting is one of the greatest, coolest privileges to have in this country. [B]I vote every time I have the opportunity, even for little positions in my hometown[/B]. I could never not vote.

    That being said, I live in NJ, and my vote is meaningless. I have the "luxury" to throw it away on a guy who doesn't have a shot in hell in winning.[/QUOTE]

    Me 2.

    Local and state elections are VERY underrated! They affect you the most but get less attention! I feel very lucky having the reps we have here in Virginia. I checked on and found out that all our us reps in the Hampton Roads aread voted no on the bailout. Dems and Repubs alike. I'm very proud of them for doing that.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2792777]Paulie,

    If you don't like what your party has become, I would advise you to vote for a third party. I'm not going to tell you to vote Obama because, even though I think he could be a great president, I know he's not your guy on the issues that matter to you.

    But, if you want the GOP to change, you have to kick it out of power. Parties cannot reform themselves while clinging to power. It doesn't happen.

    Frankly, if Obama wins, the GOP will be able to redefine itself in opposition to his program, which will increase the size of government one way or the other. Political necessity will force it to take that tack, because the out of power party always definies itself in opposition to what's in power. (See Dems, Bush; Republicans, Clinton, etc.)

    The way to wind up with a party that is aligned with your kind of conservatism is to exile it for a few years. So vote for Barr. Send a message.

    You won't get policies you like under Obama. But you probably wouldn't under McCain, either. And, in a few years, you just may get a party you actually want to vote for this way.[/QUOTE]

    I guess in theory that works, but the fact remain this country is a two party state, and a vote for a third party is usually a vote for one of the running candidates. See Ross Perot.

  16. #16
    [QUOTE=pauliec;2792763]That being said, I live in NJ, and my vote is meaningless. I have the "luxury" to throw it away on a guy who doesn't have a shot in hell in winning.[/QUOTE]

    Which is why it is clear that if you ever want to see the system change in your lifetime, you have to "throw away" your vote in this election.

    I, like several posters here, am a fiscal conservative but am more of a civil libertarian who would like to see government as small as it possibly could be. There are many things I do not like about Bob Barr, including the complete-180 he has done on several issues (medical marijuana, Defense of Marriage, etc), but the only way for another political party to ever become relevant on the national stage is to gradually increase its percentage of the vote. I'm not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but I'm still young enough to hope that it may in my lifetime.

    I think it's an embarrassment that the foremost democracy on this planet has such a horrible system of choosing elected officials.

  17. #17
    [QUOTE=jetswin;2792780]I guess in theory that works, but the fact remain this country is a two party state, and a vote for a third party is usually a vote for one of the running candidates. See Ross Perot.[/QUOTE]

    I agree, if you're talking about a swing state... NY/NJ are certainly going to go blue in this election, so you're not affecting the two-party outcome by casting a third-party vote in those states.

  18. #18
    [QUOTE=jetswin;2792780]I guess in theory that works, but the fact remain this country is a two party state, and a vote for a third party is usually a vote for one of the running candidates. See Ross Perot.[/QUOTE]

    Yes, but the GOP will interpret votes for Barr as coming from disenchanted Republicans who find the party's big-government approach nowadays unacceptable. They will need those voters back if they want to win again, and they will presumably adjust accordingly. Eventually.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=JohnnyHector;2792786]Which is why it is clear that if you ever want to see the system change in your lifetime, you have to "throw away" your vote in this election.

    I, like several posters here, am a fiscal conservative but am more of a civil libertarian who would like to see government as small as it possibly could be. There are many things I do not like about Bob Barr, including the complete-180 he has done on several issues (medical marijuana, Defense of Marriage, etc), but the only way for another political party to ever become relevant on the national stage is to gradually increase its percentage of the vote. I'm not saying it's going to happen tomorrow, but I'm still young enough to hope that it may in my lifetime.

    I think it's an embarrassment that the foremost democracy on this planet has such a horrible system of choosing elected officials.[/QUOTE]
    Me too, fiscal coservative, social liberal (in the sense I'm ok with abortion, gay marriage, etc..)

    I'm amazed with how many of us there are, and yet no serious movement towards a third party.

    I was going to vote McCain until this Palin thing. I refuse to put another person who celebrates their own ignorance in the whitehouse. I refused to vote for Bush for the same reason.

    I'm voting Barr or abstaining..

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=chesapeakejet;2792750]I'M READY TO REVOLT! :steamin:[/QUOTE]

    Something tells me there will be some guys in suits with sunglasses knocking on your door very soon. You might want to run for the border.

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