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Thread: At this point, I can't do it. I can't vote for John McCain.

  1. #21
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    There might be something to what Nua's saying. As you say Paulie, the republicans are a shell of their former selves, with a true conservative very hard to find. They had a golden opportunity, and blew it. This November, they(we) will likely be punished for it.

    Perhaps the time off will be a wake up call, and bring back the fiscal conservatives to their base.

    Even with executive and legistlative branches locked up by the dems, you have hope with the conservative supreme court justices to keep things semi in check. However, the clock is ticking, and you have to hope there's not too much irreversable damage done before the cons get their seat back at the table.

    Barr seems to have the right ideas. Also, I wouldn't mind seeing Newt Gingrich dust off the 'Contract with America' and getting back in the thick of things. I don't agree with him on all the issues, but that candidate will never exist.

  2. #22
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    Read my sig

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2792772]NJ is not locked up yet[/QUOTE]

    I disagree completely... but I wish the McCain campaign felt that way! :D

  4. #24
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    Great post, Paulie. Vote for Barr...send a message to your party that their deviation from the principals that you hold dear may ultimately lead to them losing your vote for good...unless they straighten up.

    One point:
    [QUOTE=Paulie]Iraq -- it's about damn time the Iraqis hold up their end of the bargain. I don't go for welfare at home, so why the hell should we continue to hold their hand and pour millions of dollars into that ****hole country? I supported the war to begin with, but the occupation "planning" unraveled at the seams from the get-go[/QUOTE]

    I'm a "libtard", right? A pinko commie, defeatist, Jane Fonda, troop hating 'Rat? Well, maybe not to you...but I have been called that for my views on the war.

    I've been saying this about Iraq for a long long long time now. I believe I've referred to Iraq as a "****hole" hundreds of times. I could never understand why "Republicans" were cool with sending money on friggin pallets to stupid Iraqistan. I've never been against the war because of "humanitarian" reasons or because I thought it was an "illegal" war. I've always been against it because I thought it was/is a colossal waste of money. I think we could of killed Saddam dozens of other ways and spent a small percentage of what we have currently spent bringing "democracy" to a bunch of stupid **** camel herders who hate our guts.

    Let me ask you...what changed your mind about Iraq? What ultimately led you to believe that we have spent enough and it's time for us to get out? Just curious...

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2792822]Great post, Paulie. Vote for Barr...send a message to your party that their deviation from the principals that you hold dear may ultimately lead to them losing your vote for good...unless they straighten up.

    One point:


    I'm a "libtard", right? A pinko commie, defeatist, Jane Fonda, troop hating 'Rat? Well, maybe not to you...but I have been called that for my views on the war.

    I've been saying this about Iraq for a long long long time now. I believe I've referred to Iraq as a "****hole" hundreds of times. I could never understand why "Republicans" were cool with sending money on friggin pallets to stupid Iraqistan. I've never been against the war because of "humanitarian" reasons or because I thought it was an "illegal" war. I've always been against it because I thought it was/is a colossal waste of money. I think we could of killed Saddam dozens of other ways and spent a small percentage of what we have currently spent bringing "democracy" to a bunch of stupid **** camel herders who hate our guts.

    Let me ask you...what changed your mind about Iraq? What ultimately led you to believe that we have spent enough and it's time for us to get out? Just curious...[/QUOTE]

    Haha, I actually borrowed that "****hole" line from you. I thought about that as I typed it, and thought it was appropriate for the tone of my post.

    What changed my mind was finally realizing that the Iraqi government has no interest in taking control of things and helping to finish what we started over there. They just sit back and let us call all the shots, and every so often Al-Maliki chirps a complaint or a congratulatory remark, and then you don't hear from him for another 6 months. It's a joke. A cruel joke.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2792780]I guess in theory that works, but the fact remain this country is a two party state, and a vote for a third party is usually a vote for one of the running candidates. See Ross Perot.[/QUOTE]

    This perception is part of the problem. I'm done with the two party system. While some may view a third party vote as a vote for one of the big two, I choose to see it for what it really is, a vote for neither of the big two.

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2792845]What changed my mind was finally realizing that the Iraqi government has no interest in taking control of things and helping to finish what we started over there. They just sit back and let us call all the shots, and every so often Al-Maliki chirps a complaint or a congratulatory remark, and then you don't hear from him for another 6 months. It's a joke. A cruel joke.[/QUOTE]

    Iraq is like a trust fund baby...they aren't ever gonna grow up until the apron strings are cut. The last straw for me was when the Iraqi congress took a recess because of the lack of air conditioning in their parliament building. Are you kidding me? Our soldiers are sweating their balls off in their flak jackets to keep your dumb asses from getting blown up by a roadside goat carcass and you need A/C? You know whats worse than not having A/C? Not having the best soldiers in the world keeping you asses alive...let's see how much you care about A/C when your laying on the side of the road in pieces from an IUD...

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2792870]Iraq is like a trust fund baby...they aren't ever gonna grow up until the apron strings are cut. The last straw for me was when the Iraqi congress took a recess because of the lack of air conditioning in their parliament building. Are you kidding me? Our soldiers are sweating their balls off in their flak jackets to keep your dumb asses from getting blown up by a roadside goat carcass and you need A/C? You know whats worse than not having A/C? Not having the best soldiers in the world keeping you asses alive...let's see how much you care about A/C when your laying on the side of the road in pieces from an IUD...[/QUOTE]

    I agree completely.

    You know, when the Continental Congress drafted the Declaration of Interdependence, they finalized it in the stifling heat of a Philadelphia summer. They also did it with the windows of Independence Hall [B]closed[/B], so no one could eavesdrop on the proceedings.

    And these bastards take an entire month off because their A/C crapped out. Infuriating.

  9. #29
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    I created a thread a couple months back that basically said McCain and Obama are very similar candidates

    I stand by that thread.

    these people might pretend to be polar opposites to appease their respective bases, but at the end of the day you will have very similar results - similar Iraq policies, similar tax policies, similar spending, all driven by necessity not necessarily what campaign promises they make. Yes their platforms are different but the America we will live in will be very similar regardless who wins.

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2792889]I agree completely.

    You know, when the Continental Congress drafted the Declaration of Interdependence, they finalized it in the stifling heat of a Philadelphia summer. They also did it with the windows of Independence Hall [B]closed[/B], so no one could eavesdrop on the proceedings.

    And these bastards take an entire month off because their A/C crapped out. Infuriating.[/QUOTE]

    I agree, and as such we should seriously question why our soldiers are expected to sacrifice their lives to help those people.

  11. #31
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    If you live in New York, New Jersey, or Connecticut, don't spend too much time worrying about who to vote for in the Presidential election. Obama is going to win all three of those states easily, just like every other Democratic nominee for President has done for decades.

    And, given the electoral college system, Obama will get every electoral vote from those states. It's as if EVERY person in those states voted for Obama.

    If you live in NJ, NY, or CT, and you vote for a Republican presidential candidate - essentially your vote doesn't count.

    Of course, your vote matters in local elections, so I'm not saying don't vote. But don't spend too much time fretting over who to vote for as far as President is concerned. Your vote will not sway things one iota.

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=SanAntonio_JetFan;2792740]Great post, Paulie. I agree with you 100%. This is one of those "less of two evils" elections.

    The whole bailout mess really pisses me off. Interesting that NBC has pulled the SNL skit about the bailout from their website (and Youtube). But, you can get your fill of Palin skits.[/QUOTE]

    well, they also don't have the NYT skit available...but the show doesn't always make every sketch available...from what I see, only five sketches are available on the SNL website to view...

    maybe it is all part of the cover-up!!!:P

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=jetswinbaby!;2792742]If you don't care how many Ruth Bader Ginsbergs are on the Supreme Court, vote for Obama.
    But don't complain when you wake up one morning and find out that Osama Bin Laden has the same or more rights than you do.[/QUOTE]

    As opposed to the Souter's and others that previous Republicans have put in?

    What makes you trust McCain when he says he'll put in good Judges? Or that the judges he would put in would live up to the Roberts/Scalia mold conservtaives prefer?

    On topic: I will not be voting for McCain either. I am sitting out election 2008 for lack of acceptable options.

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=piney;2792972]well, they also don't have the NYT skit available...but the show doesn't always make every sketch available...from what I see, only five sketches are available on the SNL website to view...

    maybe it is all part of the cover-up!!!:P[/QUOTE]

    The guy playing Barney Frank was pretty good.

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2792822]Great post, Paulie. Vote for Barr...send a message to your party that their deviation from the principals that you hold dear may ultimately lead to them losing your vote for good...unless they straighten up.

    One point:


    I'm a "libtard", right? A pinko commie, defeatist, Jane Fonda, troop hating 'Rat? Well, maybe not to you...but I have been called that for my views on the war.

    I've been saying this about Iraq for a long long long time now. I believe I've referred to Iraq as a "****hole" hundreds of times. I could never understand why "Republicans" were cool with sending money on friggin pallets to stupid Iraqistan. I've never been against the war because of "humanitarian" reasons or because I thought it was an "illegal" war. [B]I've always been against it because I thought it was/is a colossal waste of money.[/B] I think we could of killed Saddam dozens of other ways and spent a small percentage of what we have currently spent bringing "democracy" to a bunch of stupid **** camel herders who hate our guts.

    Let me ask you...what changed your mind about Iraq? What ultimately led you to believe that we have spent enough and it's time for us to get out? Just curious...[/QUOTE]

    Granted this war is a collosal waste of money, but isn't that secondary to losing 4000 soldiers and maiming thousands more? Suppose Iraq's oil revenues were paying for the war. Would you be in favor of it then?

    I hope that's not what you meant when saying you are not against it for humanitarian reasons.

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2792780]I guess in theory that works, but the fact remain this country is a two party state, and a vote for a third party is usually a vote for one of the running candidates. See Ross Perot.[/QUOTE]

    Well yes, that's the point. No 3rd party candidate will ever win the election (at least in our lifetime) It's about finding a 3rd party candidate that has a closer ideology set that you share, and that has enough of a contingency to be adopted by the major party. That way, in order for the major candidate to get elected, he starts appealing to your voter views to get the 3rd candidate's votes. Voting for a 3rd party candidate is about getting your platforms integrated into the major party.

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2792730]Believe it or not, I'm still undecided. I'm one of those undecided voters that people are starting to whisper about, that small-town anchors are starting to report on, and that campaign volunteers are starting to target.

    Only, I haven't decided on whether I'm going to vote for John McCain or throw my vote away on a third party candidate.

    Here's the deal: I'm a conservative. I adhere to the old school principles of Goldwater and Buckley and Friedman and Reagan. Lower spending, smaller federal government, an accretion of states' rights, and a security policy marked by a strong, domestic defense.

    The Republican Party began it's decline with Bush 41's Presidency, and W has completely destroyed it. His policies, or more accurately, the policies of the men surrounding him, made a mockery of what it used to mean to be conservative. True, 9/11 changed a lot of things, but his departure from some basic values and principles have been very distressing. No longer is the GOP the party of conservative values. There are now two types of liberals in this country: Blatant liberals (Democrats) and closet liberals (Republicans). Some of the small-town, lower tier politicians still get it, and there are good Assemblymen, Congressmen, and Senators who still know how to prioritize their fundamentals. There are a few good conservative governors too, like Palin and Jindal, who give me hope for the future. But right now, the party is a shell of what it once was.

    If McCain had any balls, he would have voted no on the revised bailout package. What happened in the House and Senate last week was the most disgusting display of greed and socialism I have ever seen. The package, a necessary evil on all accounts, was only approved after being jammed full of pork to appease, mollify, and otherwise bribe wary or cautious politicians. While Obama was doing his best to convince people to vote for that aberration, McCain should have put his foot down and called the bill exactly what it was: a joke.

    And I have to say, I agree with flushingjet on one thing: anyone who calls himself a conservative and is voting for Barack Obama is either in denial or an outright liar. Obama embodies everything that goes against the old school values of the conservative movement. Universal (socialized) healthcare? Give me a break. Raising taxes because it's a neighborly thing to do? Well, who cares! They can afford it anyway!... Disgraceful.

    Unfortunately, John McCain is no better. I don't buy this whole "McSame" nonsense, simply because voting on bumper sticker slogans pisses me off. To do so shows a simpleton ignorance and an unwillingness to actually dig a little deeper and do your own research on the candidates. I haven't fully come to this conclusion yet, but this is one solid thought in a long process of mulling back and forth.

    Re: Iraq -- it's about damn time the Iraqis hold up their end of the bargain. I don't go for welfare at home, so why the hell should we continue to hold their hand and pour millions of dollars into that ****hole country? I supported the war to begin with, but the occupation "planning" unraveled at the seams from the get-go.

    Re: Sarah Palin -- a Hail Mary bomb, a publicity stunt that McCain gambled on and lost. I think one day she could be a very good politician on the national scale, and may even inspire a rebirth of the conservative movement within the GOP, but that day is far off. 8-12 years at least. I respect the hell out of her for what she has accomplished, but she's too green right now to be thrust into such a national spotlight.

    Speaking of respect, patriotism is a word that gets thrown around a lot with little to no meaning. John McCain is the very definition of the word. A quintessential patriot. He endured 5 long years of torture (could you imagine that? 5 years!), after refusing to be let out before guys that were in their longer. When he was finally released, he could have emerged a bitter, broken man, angry at his country and severely depressed, but instead he was grateful and inspired. He decided to dedicate the rest of his life to serving his country in a different way, running for office because he genuinely believed that he had to give back to the people and institutions that make this country great. Truly a remarkable story, and 100% a Patriot. You can never take that away from him. But, that reason alone isn't good enough to vote for him.

    So who will I vote for? Well if you say Ron Paul, forget about it. I saw him on Meet the Press several months ago and he came off as a lunatic with a skewed sense of history. At this point, I think I may vote for Bob Barr. Check out this video. He may be full of ****, but at least he PRETENDS to uphold the values of conservatism. McCain can't even do that.

    [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NxPrULE6dUU[/url]

    Anyway, that's where I stand. I would appreciate some input from everyone - the liberals, conservatives, and independents on this board.[/QUOTE]

    If you are a New Yorker it really doesn't matter.

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=RIJetFan;2793067]If you are a New Yorker it really doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]

    He's in NJ i think.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=Jets Voice of Reason;2793069]He's in NJ i think.[/QUOTE]

    New Jersey's not really in play either.

    But rereading my post, I didn't mean to be flippant. A person's vote is an important issue even if it doesn't decide the election.

    Indeed, I take my vote very seriously even though I have never voted in a state that was really in doubt in a presidential election, having lived in NY, MA and RI, which almost always go for the dem.

  20. #40
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    I would always vote for the person you believe in most. It is not a "thrown away vote". I did the same thing here two weeks ago, Bavaria voted for a new government. Since 1949, the conservative party always won way more then 50%, and four years ago, I also voted for them. But the last couple of years, they screwed up, changed to personal I don't like etc.
    So I decided to vote for a small independent party. What happened was that eve though the conservatives won the election, they fell under 50% the first time in their history, because lots of people thought like I did. But the "more liberal" party wasn't able to improve since the last election because like me, everyone went to the small parties.
    Because of that devasting loss in voters, the head of the party and the Bavarian "governor" resigned, even though their party still runs this state. The party realized that they had lost track of their own base.

    I know that the US-election system works different, and you probably can't change the outcome in your area one bit, but when an election showed that a party lost their base they always had (even though it was never enough to win the election) to small, independent parties, they will take notice and maybe will make it better next time.

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