[QUOTE=Roger Vick;2793786]I have a feeling Sarah Palin knows a little bit more than CTM, but I'm trying to give him the benefit of the doubt since he has presented himself as some sort of expert.[/QUOTE]
Based on Palin's answer in the debate, I'm gonna go with CTM on this one...
McCain should have accepted Kerry's offer of the VP nomination. He'd be VP right now, could have shanked Kerry in the oval office at any time and be running for president right now and win in a cake walk.
so let me guess, boy barack got his campaign contribution (highest of any senator) from fannie mae because he was going to clamp down on the regulations? why does barack have franklin raines on his staff? in case you don't know, good ole franklin collected over 90 M in salary and bonuses when he was head of fannie under clnton. think he had something to do with the problem? obama is part of the problem and not the solution.
[QUOTE=Timmy-y-y-y;2793402]Now there's a brilliant question.
That's like asking how Obama is going to fix the car the Republicans crashed and somehow blaming him.
How will Obama fix it? He's not fixing it. It's being fixed by the taxpayers who just paid 700 billion dollars because of the selfish and dufus eight year leadership
of the Bush administration and its supporters.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=pauliec;2794722]Hindsight is 20/20. There was no telling what how many deaths or millions of dollars would result from the Civil War before it happened.
And where was the money to buy all those slaves supposed to come from? Taxes, obviously. Do you think Southerners would have approved a massive tax increase so that the government could buy all their slaves? I don't think so - in effect they would be paying the government to take their slaves away.[/QUOTE]
Paulie alot of the history in this country is skewed. I think alot of the way it was told and the way it actully went down was also skewed. Your right Hindsight is always 20/20 but if this is as radical as Ron Paul gets Im not sure hes inncorrect. Throughout the history of this country alot of people have died and we tell alot of those stories through the history books through some rose colored glasses. We wiped out or nearly wiped out a whole race of people and what I got out of the history books was how horrible the American Indians were. Were they really that bad or were they made out to be that way ? If slavery ended in europe without the bloodshed of 600,000 + of our own brothers and countrymen then how did they pull it off ?
If countries around the world are beginning to hate us due to our warped foreign policy which seems to revolve around money can you blame them ?
Now lets say we can agree to meet 50/50 on the Ron Paul history issue. We have to keep in mind he was one of the few politicians warning of a financial meltdown and he gave the exact reasons and pointed directly at the bogus Federal Reserve which in fact is NOT even run by the feds, and he hit the nail right on the head. Im sure the filthy rich in this country and around the world would not want to see Ron Paul as president and I would be willing to bet if he did get elected he would probably be shot in the first year of service. I think hes a good man and I think he has the countires best intrest at heart he does not have the same flip floping in his agenda we have seen so much of over the years. He will not be bought or sold Like I think MOST of our politicians are these days. You know that just from his stance aganist lobbiests. He stands for everything you see the regular americans talk about every day but hes the Nut ?
Hes the true conservative and thats what I want to see back in american politics, not the high road towards socialism
[QUOTE=SMC;2794973]No. Remember, I didn't call Paul a loon. Some of his ideas are good, but his idea about buying up the slaves is not.
As to your other posts, the cost of the Civil War was definately enormous, but we can't make the huge assumption that it was about slavery. Slavery was just a single component of the "states rights" movement. The southern states wanted to control their own taxation and own exports and imports. They wanted to sell their plantation exports to Europe on their own, rather than going through the United States. Slavery was simply the rallying cry on both sides of the Mason Dixon.
There was a fundamental difference of how the country should be run politically and economically between the north and the south (especially since they had completely different economies with the south being primarily agrarian and the north begining the push to industrialization).
The Confederacy was really just that, an association of independent states. When you're looking at that political model, buying slaves simply wouldn't work.
In other words, besides the buying slave plan not working, I don't think war was avoidable [U]unless[/U] the north was willing to let the south secede.
Look at it like this. At the time of the Civil War, the US was a married couple with the wife having the unwavoring religious belief in monagomy and the husband being hell bent on being a swinger. Either you divorce or beat the husband into submission.[/QUOTE]
Ok well then lets forget the past for a minute and focus on the present. How do Ron Pauls present stances on this country fly with you SMC ?
Paulie I see what Barr is saying but from the mouths of some senators who said 90 % of the emails they received were aganist the bail out AND THEY STILL VOTED FOR THE BAIL OUT. I thought in some crazy way these idiots were suppoed to be representing the people ? Thye should be thrown in jail along with paulson and bernake
Since I became of voting age in 1981 I have been predominately voting Democrat. Fact is I, probably like many of you, am a fiscal conservative and a social progressive.
When I was younger there were great Republicans that shared my values. Javits, Bill Cohen, Howard Baker and the list goes on.
My main issue with the Republican party was the Reagan Revolution. This is when the hypocrisy of the Republicans became apparent. They talked less government and lower taxes, but the end result was always the opposite. Endless military buildups based on paranoia and government intrusion in all of our lives. Our forefathers Republican party ended then, and has not come back. Religious dogma interfering with our rights, and the end of any commitment to Conservation (you know it is based on the same word as conservative) and the politics of ethnic division. Personally I truly believe that had the Soviet Union been astute enough not to try to keep up with our military spending and international imperialism, Reagan's reputation may be very different today.
Since Reagan the Republicans have waved the flag and screamed less government but have practiced the exact opposite. They scream for deregulation to enable corruption. Just once I would like to hear the dems describe Regulation as economic law and order. The public might respond a little differently.
While back in NY for the last 4 years, most of my voting has been done in California. I voted for one Republican in all those years. Tom Campbell over Dianne Fienstein. He got creamed because the state Republican party left him out to dry. He was an old style Republican...they are the more B-1 Bob Dornan types.
The Dems have not been much better. However, on issues of my personal rights (which Republicans used to be better on.), Responsible Defense Spending and Social issues they have been far better. For me they have been a far more pragmatic party when it comes to balancing policy with ideology.
Health care is a perfect example. Republicans can scream about socialized health care all they want, but the reality is the European model, while not great, works better. The Small American businessperson like myself is screwed. We can't afford to cover all of our people like large corporations, so we often get put in a vice of potentially losing our best personnel we have developed and invested in because of the security of benefits, even if there is a greater opportunity with pay and flexibility of schedule.
Republicans need to realize as the boomers get older that this country is not going to stand by and let folks get sick and have no health care. It's not going to be tolerated. So pragmatically if we want our businesses to be able to compete in the real global economy of today, our government has got to provide similar services for the workforce as the rest of the world, or our businesses start off way behind the pack. Global multinationals could give a rat's butt about America or it's people. They will give as little as they can.
Dems over the years have been pathetic when it comes to entitlement programs. They have been willing to give out money for votes. It's pathetic.
My point is that we are a free market Republic. It's time that ideology take a back seat to pragmatism as what is best for our country competing is a global context.
Many think Obama is a classic liberal. I hate the term because I believe it has been poisoned unnecessarily. However, for those who don't think he's taken on the party, well that's crazy. He went up against the Democratic powers that be and did it mostly from the grassroots. Clinton, Schumer, Feinstein and all the Big Gov't Dems were against him.
Can you say that he is short on some accomplishments...you bet. However, you cannot deny that he stands on the precipice of becoming the first African American President as an outsider. He pushes faith without dogmatically mandating it from the government. He pushes government programs of education funding with the expectation that service will be required.
Is he completely known....no. But McCain and his cast of Neocons that resemble nothing of the Republican party I respected from an era gone by are. Their slice and dice politics of division must be rejected. There are some Congressional Republicans who do get it on some level. The reality is by next week they will be running from McCain and should be.
Obama is the best choice by far for this country. He has rejected and beaten back the traditional leadership of the Dems and has made the party more accountable. His victory will have a similar effect on the Republicans. If Obama loses and McCain pulls this out....the Dems go back to Clinton Schumer and Pelosi and the Republicans are still run by the Big Brother Neocons. We all lose.
Look as most Jet fans...we're AFC guys. In most Super Bowls I root for the AFC regardless. But not the years the Pats were in it. They were and are evil and can't be supported. You may not like Obama....but for traditional Republicans, Independents and grass roots Dems....he's the only choice Nov 4th!