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Thread: Interesting read, make your own judgements

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2795235]That's fair, I am concerned about what shaped his mind and who his influences are, I'm not sure he is hiding anything but a pattern emerges.[/QUOTE]

    I agree that there is something to be concerned about here. To be honest, the Reverend Wright is the only chink (not chinese person) in Obama's armour at this point. But it is a major concern. You judge people by who they hang out with and Obama did go to church every week with this guy. And this wasn't his college years. This was until a few months ago.

    Still, I'd vote for the actual Reverend Wright before a four time cancer man who has Sarah "yer darn tootin': Palin in the wings as a possible presidential replacement.

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=piney;2795263]excellent points, and great to hear them come from two people who are not voting for Obama....[/QUOTE]

    This is not really about what vices these two dabbled in in college is it? We know Obama tried a few things he's not too proud of also, just like just about every other college student in the world.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2795269]This is not really about what vices these two dabbled in in college is it? We know Obama tried a few things he's not too proud of also, just like just about every other college student in the world.[/QUOTE]

    to me, the issue wasn't about past vices but about how they find this as a non-issue when deciding on who to vote for.

    I don't think this, or Ayers, or Wright are strong enough reasons to sway someones vote.

    Obviously, to me, these guys made their decisions not to vote or support Obama based on much more substantive issues.

    That is what is refreshing to see...at least on this board.

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2795265]that is not on subject, so the sarcasm does not apply...

    The fact remains the Obama people are trying their best to conceal any connection between their candidate and the unrepentant America hating home grown terrorist, who would probably still be in jail if not for a technicality, that helped launch his career.

    makes me uncomfortable[/QUOTE]

    Actually it is on topic. If you are going to judge a man by the company he keeps, you should judge him based on ALL not one or two of his associates.

    By the way, I posted an article in another thread the other day that basically refutes a lot of what you have been hearing about Obama and Ayers, including some claims from the article you posted.

    Ayers did not help launch Obama's political career. The party Obama attended at Ayers house was in someone else's honor and that is who invited the Obamas, not Ayers.

    The real truth is, there is not a real relationship between Obama and Ayers. The two sat on a committee together, a committee that met a grand total of six times when they were both members.

    Despite Sarah Palin's claims, Obama and Ayers do not "pal around" together.

    I am sure there have been people you worked with closely in some capacity in your life J-Dub. Maybe you even went to lunch with these people a couple of times, or even a dinner party at one another's houses, it doesn't necessarily mean you are friends with that person or share their beliefs.

  5. #25
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    i don't think anyone is concerned about what obama did in college. what they are interested in is what he did while associating with people like ayers, wright, farakhan, fegler, acorn, etc. these are all long term recent associations.

    and, by the way, obama wants to be viewed as a man of the people. well it might not be such a big thing, but why did he wait until march of this year to pay off his student loans? keep in mind that this was well after his election to the senate, well afetr his wife landed that huge job in the university of chicago hospital, long after he bought that mansion usings help from rezko, etc. what he did was deny that money for use by aother students. the whole problem with obama is that no matter how you slice it, his whole body of work is either non-existent or being hidden by people who would rather not that it be found out. this guy has zero credentials to be dog catcher let alone president of this or any country. the sooner people find out, the better.


    [QUOTE=dcJet;2795187]I didn't read your entire post because I, like many other Americans, are not interested in what a 48 year old man did when he was in college.

    I'm a different person now than when I was 19 and I have totally different beliefs. So does everyone else. This stuff is irrelevant.[/QUOTE]

  6. #26
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    you can certainly parse any one of these associations out and minimize them, however, they must be taken as a whole. take your pick, either obama has shown a high degree of bad judgement about the company he keeps or these people truly are his close associates. either way, he is not my choice to be president of this country. no way no how.

    [QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2795380]Actually it is on topic. If you are going to judge a man by the company he keeps, you should judge him based on ALL not one or two of his associates.

    By the way, I posted an article in another thread the other day that basically refutes a lot of what you have been hearing about Obama and Ayers, including some claims from the article you posted.

    Ayers did not help launch Obama's political career. The party Obama attended at Ayers house was in someone else's honor and that is who invited the Obamas, not Ayers.

    The real truth is, there is not a real relationship between Obama and Ayers. The two sat on a committee together, a committee that met a grand total of six times when they were both members.

    Despite Sarah Palin's claims, Obama and Ayers do not "pal around" together.

    I am sure there have been people you worked with closely in some capacity in your life J-Dub. Maybe you even went to lunch with these people a couple of times, or even a dinner party at one another's houses, it doesn't necessarily mean you are friends with that person or share their beliefs.[/QUOTE]

  7. #27
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    Regardless of who you are voting for, its very apparent that this stuff is not impacting the election. Very few people who are TRULY undecided are allowing these issuesto swing their vote. the polls say so. The people who are paying attention to this were never voting for Obama in the first place.
    There are much bigger issues involved in this election, and thats the hard truth.

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=dcJet;2795187]I didn't read your entire post because I, like many other Americans, are not interested in what a 48 year old man did when he was in college.

    I'm a different person now than when I was 19 and I have totally different beliefs. So does everyone else. This stuff is irrelevant.[/QUOTE]oh yeah chavez is completely different now than when he was staging a coup.

  9. #29
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    Holy house Committee on Un-American Activities, Batman!

  10. #30
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    that's exactly the point. these guys look very palatable to the middle classes and even the elite but their true agenda is for themselves. imagine that jimmie carter certified chavez's election, as if his stupidity as president wasn't enough to cement his name as the anchorman.

    i for one believe that there is a chance that obama is a sleeper. and no matter how unpalatable mccain may be, obama is downright dangerous.

    [QUOTE=2foolish197;2795458]oh yeah chavez is completely different now than when he was staging a coup.[/QUOTE]

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=Klecko73isGod;2795380]I am sure there have been people you worked with closely in some capacity in your life J-Dub. Maybe you even went to lunch with these people a couple of times, or even a dinner party at one another's houses, it doesn't necessarily mean you are friends with that person or share their beliefs.[/QUOTE]

    I can safely say I have never had dinner with anyone who was involved with killing police officers, bombing the Pentagon, bombing the home of a judge, planning on bombing the officer's club at Fort Dix.

  12. #32
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    As everyone should know, the National Review is a staunch, right-wing publication and website. So anything they write should be viewed with that in mind.

    Plus, as bitonti mentioned, who gives a **** what Obama did in college? Seriously. The Republicans (including on the National Review) are desperate to make the irrelevant Ayers matter. That is the only way they think they can win.

    So, the choice to them for voters is, "don't worry about your healthcare, your mortgage, your job security, just worry about what Obama did in college."

    If you think that's a generalization, ask why they are bringing it up in October? Because they want people to vote solely on Ayers. And it's pathetic.

    A lot of you are voting for McCain before the Ayers story. But

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=SMC;2795494]As everyone should know, the National Review is a staunch, right-wing publication and website. So anything they write should be viewed with that in mind.

    Plus, as bitonti mentioned, who gives a **** what Obama did in college? Seriously. The Republicans (including on the National Review) are desperate to make the irrelevant Ayers matter. That is the only way they think they can win.

    So, the choice to them for voters is, "don't worry about your healthcare, your mortgage, your job security, just worry about what Obama did in college."

    If you think that's a generalization, ask why they are bringing it up in October? Because they want people to vote solely on Ayers. And it's pathetic.

    A lot of you are voting for McCain before the Ayers story. But[/QUOTE]

    facts are facts...you've made your decision.

    The funny thing is most of you keep talking about college, this relationship goes well past those years.

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2795501]facts are facts...you've made your decision.

    The funny thing is most of you keep talking about college, this relationship goes well past those years.[/QUOTE]

    I mentioned college because the article in question brings it up.

    Yes, facts are facts and I'm still trying to see the relevance here except for scare tactics and character assasination by proxy.

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=SMC;2795516]I mentioned college because the article in question brings it up.

    Yes, facts are facts and I'm still trying to see the relevance here except for scare tactics and character assasination by proxy.[/QUOTE]

    Character assassination?! This is who BO is. He' s the most far left Dem to run for president in memory - even more so than Carter.

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2795488]I can safely say I have never had dinner with anyone who was involved with killing police officers, bombing the Pentagon, bombing the home of a judge, planning on bombing the officer's club at Fort Dix.[/QUOTE]

    You've also never been involved in politics.

    All politicians, I repeat, ALL politicians at some time or another will be involved with some unsavory charachters. Its the nature of the beast. It doesn't mean they are best buddies with these people or share their views.

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=quantum;2795546]Character assassination?! This is who BO is. He' s the most far left Dem to run for president in memory - even more so than Carter.[/QUOTE]

    It is character assassination when the McCain campaign is trying to equate Obama with a terrorist. Case closed.

    He could be as left as possible, but that's not what they're criticizing. McCain already pointed out Obama's liberal voting record and Ayers has nothing to do with that. They're calling Obama a terrorist sympathizer which is clear as day character assasination.

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=SMC;2795494]As everyone should know, the National Review is a staunch, right-wing publication and website. So anything they write should be viewed with that in mind.

    Plus, as bitonti mentioned, who gives a **** what Obama did in college? Seriously. The Republicans (including on the National Review) are desperate to make the irrelevant Ayers matter. That is the only way they think they can win. [/QUOTE]

    How about CNN?

    [QUOTE] But the relationship between Obama and Ayers went deeper, ran longer and was more political than Obama -- and his surrogates -- have revealed, documents and interviews show.

    A review of board minutes and records by CNN show Obama crossed paths repeatedly with Ayers at board meetings of the Annenberg Challenge Project.

    The Annenberg Foundation gave the project a $50 million grant to match local private funds to improve schools, and Ayers fought to bring the grant to Chicago, according to participants and project records.

    The project's organizing committee asked Obama to serve as the board chairman in 1995. Annenberg Project Executive Director Ken Rollings said Ayers was not a member of that ad hoc group when the decision was made.

    For seven years, Ayers and Obama -- among many others -- worked on funding for education projects, including some projects advocated by Ayers.

    "The specific job of the board of directors was to give out the money," said Stanley Kurtz, a conservative researcher for the Ethics and Public Policy Center and frequent Obama critic.

    "Instead of giving money directly to schools, they gave money to what they call external partners and these partners were often pretty radical community organizer groups," said Kurtz, who also has been reviewing the Annenberg Challenge's recently released records.

    The board, for example, gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to Bill Ayers' small schools project. The project promoted alternative education, including projects like the Peace School -- where the curriculum centered on a United Nations theme -- and another school where the focus was African-American studies.

    The funding, according to Kurtz and records CNN reviewed, came directly from the Annenberg foundation which Obama chaired. [b]The project shut down in 2003 after achieving "little impact on school improvement and student outcomes," its final report stated.[/b]

    While working on the Annenberg project, Obama and Ayers also served together on a second charitable foundation, the Woods Fund. It was that foundation that Obama referenced in the debate -- not the Annenberg Challenge.

    Among Wood Foundation recipients were the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's Trinity United Church, where Obama attended and was married; and the Children and Family Justice Center, where Ayers' wife Dohrn was director.

    A CNN review of project records found nothing to suggest anything inappropriate in the volunteer projects in which the two men were involved. Read CNN's fact check on Obama's connection to Ayers

    [b]Ayers has strong defenders in Chicago -- including Mayor Richard Daley, who called him "a valued member of the Chicago community."

    The city gave Ayers its Citizen of the Year award in 1997 for his work on the Annenberg project.[/b][/QUOTE]

    How about that...

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=asuusa;2797112]How about CNN?



    How about that...[/QUOTE]

    I think it cancels out the fact that McCain "pal-ed" around with Nazi collaborators. Why would you vote for someone who legitimized people who helped enable genocide?

    That's horrible...and also a bit of a stretch and non-issue, just like the Ayers thing.



    Allright....some Politics 101. These kind of attacks only mobilizes your base, but turns off middle of the road voters. John McCain's base is already firmly established. Voting bases are ALWAYS established early in the campaign. Doing this now reeks of desperation...and the "independent" "undecided" voter will see right through it.

  20. #40
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    It is proving to be a non-issue and every pundit, both from the left AND the right, has agreed that continuing to bring it up is not providing any political
    gain for McCain. In fact, it's showing how lame their candidate is. If that's the worst that BO has been up to, so be it. In this economy, I sense people
    want to hear from someone with some intelligence and maybe the guts to
    lead the country in a new, more positive direction.

    I mean, seriously, George W Bush stood in front of the Nation and willfully and knowingly LIED about weapons of mass destruction, started a war we should never, ever have been in and has presided over what may go down in History as the worst U.S. presidency on record, has overseen the near-collapse of the global economy......on and on. And, astoundingly, people voted for him TWICE. I think the people of this country are somewhat to blame for this mess we're in. You wanted a cowboy to run the country, you got one. And he's run the country into the ground.

    Keep worrying about some petty nonsense about Bill Ayers, let McSame and the idiot Palin into office and see how well this country is doing in 4 years.

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