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Thread: Should some people not vote?

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2802630]Uninformed voters are a fact of life in Democracy.

    I see no difference, frankly, between some know-nothing college kid voting for the guy because their friends are than the know-nothing churchgoers who got wrapped up in a similar phenomenon with Bush, or the know-nothings at McCain's rallies who declare that Obama is an Arab or terrorist. Should they be voting?

    If you believe in Democracy, you have to believe that everyone has a right to vote.

    It's up to the campaigns to persuade low-information voters as well as those who do their homework.[/QUOTE]


    I'm not disputing the [B]right [/B]to vote. But should someone ever say, "You know what? I don't know enough about these guys to make an informed decision. I'm not going to vote."

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=NIGHT STALKER;2802603]You can't be serious with this post. If a white dude posted something like this we'd be called a racist.[/QUOTE]

    I am serious with this post. Got a problem with it? I am a hill scoggin hillbilly. I have the cars in my yard to prove it...so I can say whatever the **** I want to about my fellow hillbillies, even the ig-nant ones. Do you know the difference between a hillbilly and a hillrod? An arugala munching Starbucks drinking city dweller as yourself might not know...

    BTW...lol @ the "if a white dude posted this" bit. I am white...as the driven snow. And I posted it. So there...:P

    [QUOTE]How's this PK...do you think the average black athlete knows what the issues are or are they voting for Obama because he's black? Of course, we'll have to wrestle through their middle school education explanation to figure out what they just said...:rolleyes: [/QUOTE]

    So let me get this straight. It's not Ok for me to lambast hillbillies as inherently racist...but it's OK for you to stereotype black people as only having a middle school education? This is ground control to Major Tom...



    I have addressed reverse racist voting in another thread. You might have read it if your weren't too busy trying to get LanceMehl to admit he was a poster from another board

    [url]http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2799558#post2799558[/url]
    Last edited by PlumberKhan; 10-13-2008 at 10:16 AM.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2802636]I'm not disputing the [B]right [/B]to vote. But should someone ever say, "You know what? I don't know enough about these guys to make an informed decision. I'm not going to vote."[/QUOTE]

    In a vacuum, you may have a point.

    But, unfortunately, it seems that often the least informed are among the most motivated to pull the lever, in my experience.

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2802647]In a vacuum, you may have a point.

    But, unfortunately, it seems that often the least informed are among the most motivated to pull the lever, in my experience.[/QUOTE]

    That's interesting, I wonder why that is.

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2802443]Well, most of the people in that video were young, but to call [B]all[/B] young voters stupid is ridiculous and and a knee-jerk generalization. I'm a young voter, and I don't think I'm stupid. At least I know how many senators represent each of the 50 (not 51) states. I didn't present the question, John Stossel did. I only asked you to consider it.

    The troops thing is a completely illogical, asinine comment. I don't even know what that means.[/QUOTE]

    Stop trying to act like you have a non-biased agenda and that you have a genuine interest in democracy. You're a republican elitist who's frustrated that McCain is apparently losing in the polls and that Obama might actually pull off a victory.

    All Americans who are above the age of 18 and legally competent should have the right to vote. The only exceptions should be people in jail. You don't hear me saying these religious wack jobs who think using a condom is murder and that cavemen lived with dinosaurs shouldn't vote. Don't worry I'm sure McCain will still get elected because all these unenlightened young people that you don't think should vote won't yet again. Just like they refused to get up off their asses in 2000 and 2004.
    Last edited by VincenzoTestaverde; 10-13-2008 at 10:35 AM.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2802644]I am serious with this post. Got a problem with it? I am a hill scoggin hillbilly. I have the cars in my yard to prove it...so I can say whatever the **** I want to about my fellow hillbillies, even the ig-nant ones. Do you know the difference between a hillbilly and a hillrod? An arugala munching Starbucks drinking city dweller as yourself might not know...

    BTW...lol @ the "if a white dude posted this" bit. I am white...as the driven snow. And I posted it. So there...:P



    So let me get this straight. It's not Ok for me to lambast hillbillies as inherently racist...but it's OK for you to stereotype black people as only having a middle school education? This is ground control to Major Tom...



    I have addressed reverse racist voting in another thread. You might have read it if your weren't too busy trying to get LanceMehl to admit he was a poster from another board

    [url]http://www.jetsinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2799558#post2799558[/url][/QUOTE]

    I posted it to show you how stupid your post was..."stereotyping" goes both ways "hillbilly".

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2802636]I'm not disputing the [B]right [/B]to vote. But should someone ever say, "You know what? I don't know enough about these guys to make an informed decision. I'm not going to vote."[/QUOTE]

    Anyone who is that self-aware to understand that they don't know everything probably knows more about the election than 95% of likely voters.

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=VincenzoTestaverde;2802660]Stop trying to act like you have a non-biased agenda and that you have a genuine interest in democracy. You're a republican elitist who's frustrated that McCain is apparently losing in the polls and that Obama might actually pull off a victory.

    All Americans who are above the age of 18 and legally competent should have the right to vote. The only exceptions should be people in jail. You don't hear me saying these religious wack jobs who think using a condom is murder and that cavemen lived with dinosaurs shouldn't vote. Don't worry I'm sure McCain will still get elected because all these unenlightened young people that you don't think should vote won't yet again. Just like they refused to get up off their asses in 2000 and 2004.[/QUOTE]

    You obviously don't know how to read.

    As I said, I'm not a fan of McCain's, and I'm not denying anyone's right to vote.

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2802678]You obviously don't know how to read.

    As I said, I'm not a fan of McCain's, and I'm not denying anyone's right to vote.[/QUOTE]

    Gimme a break, you're a card carrying republican who's voting for McCain.

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2802562]I think Paulie's POINT is a valid one.

    While we in here like to think of ourselves as at least somewhat well-informed, there is a huge portion of our voting population who, if you really checked, is laughably, horrificly, stunningly UNINFORMED, almost to the level of abject ignorance.

    No, of course they're not all Obama (or Democratic) voters. ****, go to any number of right-wing churches and you'll find the same.

    [B]But for every one of them, they kill and make meaningless, YOUR vote or MY vote.[/B]
    I'm not saying they shouldn't vote, or be allowed to vote or that there is any soultion to this issue.....but the point of how deeply dumb and abjectly uninformed a wide swatch of our population is, is in my opinion an unquestionable fact.[/QUOTE]

    A valid point, what concerns me more is that the electoral system is structurally flawed in a way that more or less nullifies my vote completely (living in VA you qualify as a swing voter). My homestate of NJ, for example, has 1 EV for every 579,061 people. Among the 11 'big states' worth 15+ EV's, the average is 1 EV per 623,225 people. By contrast, the 12 states (and DC) that have 3 or 4 EV's average 269,991 people per EV, led by Wyoming with 174,277, meaning a vote in Wyoming counts 4X as much as one in Texas, Cali, or Fla. Not to be an urbanophile, but I have to imagine that, on average, voters in the big states (CA, TX, NY, FL, IL, PA, OH, MI, GA, NC, NJ) are more educated and better informed than the average voter in Alaska, Idaho, and North Dakota, which just exacerbates this injustice. The disenfranchisement is further piled on by the 'winner take all' policies of 48 of the 50 states, which means that my vote (liberal in NJ) is literally meaningless, since the outcome is already decided. Another way of looking at this is: 1 undecided voter in a small swing state (think WV) has the same electoral say as the approximately (conservatively) 300,000 democrats who will form Obamas margin of victory in NJ.

    Before we fight for equality of information amongst potential voters we need to fight for the value of our votes themselves.
    Last edited by hamburglar; 10-13-2008 at 10:44 AM. Reason: typo

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=VincenzoTestaverde;2802681]Gimme a break, you're a card carrying republican who's voting for McCain.[/QUOTE]

    Actually, I'm a card carrying Republican who's [B]not [/B]voting for McCain.

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=hamburglar;2802682]A valid point, what concerns me more is that the electoral system is structurally flawed in a way that more or less nullifies my vote completely (living in VA you qualify as a swing voter). My homestate of NJ, for example, has 1 EV for every 579,061 people. Among the 11 'big states' worth 15+ EV's, the average is 1 EV per 623,225 people. By contrast, the 12 states (and DC) that have 3 or 4 EV's average 269,991 people per EV, led by Wyoming with 174,277, meaning a vote in Wyoming counts 4X as much as one in Texas, Cali, or Fla. Not to be an urbanophile, but I have to imagine that, on average, voters in the big states (CA, TX, NY, FL, IL, PA, OH, MI, GA, NC, NJ) are more educated and better informed than the average voter in Alaska, Idaho, and North Dakota, which just exacerbates this injustice. The disenfranchisement is further piled on by the 'winner take all' policies of 48 of the 50 states, which means that my vote (liberal in NJ) is literally meaningless, since the outcome is already decided. Another way of looking at this is: 1 undecided voter in a small swing state (think WV) has the same electoral say as the approximately (conservatively) 300,000 democrats who will form Obamas margin of victory in NJ.

    Before we fight for equality of information amongst potential voters we need to fight for the value of our votes themselves.[/QUOTE]

    Good post.

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2802636]I'm not disputing the [B]right [/B]to vote. But should someone ever say, "You know what? I don't know enough about these guys to make an informed decision. I'm not going to vote."[/QUOTE]

    Paulie -

    With the right to vote, also comes the right not to vote. Plenty of people will say, as you put it: "You know what? I don't know enough about these guys to make an informed decision. I'm not going to vote."

    Or, they'll say "I don't care." "My vote doesn't make a difference." Or some variation thereof. And that's fine.

    There are a couple of problems when we start to think about our nation as a democracy.

    First of all, it's not a democracy. It's a republic. Huge difference. In a democracy, every vote counts and majority rules. In a republic, individual entities (which we call states) elect national officials that they feel will best represent the people within their constituency.

    I can see the logic in setting up a republic back in the late 1700s. Back then, interstate commerce was not a big factor. We did not have the infrastructure in place (and obviously the technology) to facilitate true interstate commerce. So, each state pretty much had its own economy and it's own views to represent. They also didn't have the technology to track each individual vote. It made sense, therefore, to give each state a certain number of electorates and have those electorates go represent their state in selecting the next President.

    It makes no sense today. State economies are so interconnected that where we live no longer determines what is best for us. I live in Connecticut, but most of my customers are in the MidAtlantic and MidWest. My interests, and my family's well being, are tied to factors well outside of Connecticut. Yet, my state will cast all it's votes for one party, as it everyone in the state voted for that party. In this day and age, that's ridiculous.

    The other major problem is the two-party system. It sets up a situation where people don't have to find reasons to support their candidate. All they have to do is find reasons to trash the other candidate. It makes for bad decisions, and bad politics.

    Imagine if their were four or five legitimate candidates right now. You wouldn't be able to cast a vote that was simply "Anti-McCain", or "Anti-Obama". You'd have a real choice. And you'd have to really look at what each candidate represented. We don't have that today. The system we have today allows a lot of lazy people to simply say "I support candidate X because he's not candidate Y." Eventually, that argument reduces itself to: "Candidate X is great, and candidate Y sucks." It really dumbs down the decision making process, causes a lot of unnecessary division in the country, and we all get hurt in the end.

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=NIGHT STALKER;2802661]I posted it to show you how stupid your post was..."stereotyping" goes both ways "hillbilly".[/QUOTE]

    So why didn't you reserve some of your righteous indignation for the original poster? He was the one that actually started the whole stereotype voter thing by saying that anyone under 34 who is voting for Obama is an uniformed dolt who watches TMZ.

    I simply countered with uninformed hillbillies who are voting for McCain. So, if my post was to show how stupid the OP's generalization was and your post was to show how how stupid my post of another stupid post...well, which one of us was late coming to the kitchen table? Doesn't your Segway have a 2nd gear or something?

    All I know...is there is a lot of stupid posts in this thread. Let me raise the level of discourse here. Try this out:

    [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/e/e/beec33f8481a77541d85471f945cf284.png[/IMG]

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2802773]So why didn't you reserve some of your righteous indignation for the original poster? He was the one that actually started the whole stereotype voter thing by saying that anyone under 34 who is voting for Obama is an uniformed dolt who watches TMZ.

    I simply countered with uninformed hillbillies who are voting for McCain. So, if my post was to show how stupid the OP's generalization was and your post was to show how how stupid my post of another stupid post...well, which one of us was late coming to the kitchen table? Doesn't your Segway have a 2nd gear or something?

    All I know...is there is a lot of stupid posts in this thread. Let me raise the level of discourse here. Try this out:

    [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/b/e/e/beec33f8481a77541d85471f945cf284.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]

    Wow. You told him.

    You must be wicket smaht.

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=Roger Vick;2802787]Wow. You told him.

    You must be wicket smaht.[/QUOTE]

    Hmmm...interesting.

    Nice avatar. Are you a pedophile?

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2802810]Hmmm...interesting.

    Nice avatar. Are you a pedophile?[/QUOTE]

    Wow. You're good.

    You put me right in my place.

    You are wicket smaht.

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2802471] **** Sinatra....he sucks balls. ;)

    QUOTE]


    Hey,hey,hey wait one minute there......

    Dumb people may suck. Republicans and Democrats may suck. Religious fanatics suck. Racists suck.

    But..............

    Frank Sinatra does not suck!

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=hamburglar;2802682]A valid point, what concerns me more is that the electoral system is structurally flawed in a way that more or less nullifies my vote completely (living in VA you qualify as a swing voter). My homestate of NJ, for example, has 1 EV for every 579,061 people. Among the 11 'big states' worth 15+ EV's, the average is 1 EV per 623,225 people. By contrast, the 12 states (and DC) that have 3 or 4 EV's average 269,991 people per EV, led by Wyoming with 174,277, meaning a vote in Wyoming counts 4X as much as one in Texas, Cali, or Fla. Not to be an urbanophile, but I have to imagine that, on average, voters in the big states (CA, TX, NY, FL, IL, PA, OH, MI, GA, NC, NJ) are more educated and better informed than the average voter in Alaska, Idaho, and North Dakota, which just exacerbates this injustice. The disenfranchisement is further piled on by the 'winner take all' policies of 48 of the 50 states, which means that my vote (liberal in NJ) is literally meaningless, since the outcome is already decided. Another way of looking at this is: 1 undecided voter in a small swing state (think WV) has the same electoral say as the approximately (conservatively) 300,000 democrats who will form Obamas margin of victory in NJ.

    Before we fight for equality of information amongst potential voters we need to fight for the value of our votes themselves.[/QUOTE]

    Great post. The electoral system is absolutely broken.

    I don't think anyone on either side of this election could defend the current system but I think your assumptions about education are broad generalizations.

  20. #40
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    Seriously your opinion means nothing to me. You need some serious counseling.

    [QUOTE=NIGHT STALKER;2802571]I thanked you for your service about a month ago and I meant that. But seriously, you are a dummy.[/QUOTE]

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