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Thread: Obama's run-in with a plumber/small business owner

  1. #201
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    So to re-cap:


    Joe the Plumber...not actually a plumber, he doesn't actually have any plans to buy his bosses his business, a business which only actually made 100 grand last year not 280,000 and Joe actually only made 40 grand last year.

    John McCain...making a fraud the centerpiece of his debate the other night. Boy, you sure can tell when Karl Rove isn't running sh*t for the Republicans anymore, can't you?



    Take it from a real plumber...Vote against the Republicans. I'll now be outside my house waiting for the media to show up to talk to me... TTYL...
    Last edited by PlumberKhan; 10-17-2008 at 06:50 AM.

  2. #202
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    What a farce.

  3. #203
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    It is nice to see the citizens of our country will lie about anything and everything to get on t.v. Joe wanted to make Obama look bad and was not even smart enough to know maybe the press will look into to see if he is genuine. Well his a geniune liar. Job well done.

    Did anyone watch SNL Update last night about teachers and plumbers? Pretty funny.

    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    So to re-cap:


    Joe the Plumber...not actually a plumber, he doesn't actually have any plans to buy his bosses his business, a business which only actually made 100 grand last year not 280,000 and Joe actually only made 40 grand last year.

    John McCain...making a fraud the centerpiece of his debate the other night. Boy, you sure can tell when Karl Rove isn't running sh*t for the Republicans anymore, can't you?



    Take it from a real plumber...Vote against the Republicans. I'll now be outside my house waiting for the media to show up to talk to me... TTYL...

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    It is nice to see the citizens of our country will lie about anything and everything to get on t.v. Joe wanted to make Obama look bad and was not even smart enough to know maybe the press will look into to see if he is genuine. Well his a geniune liar. Job well done.

    Did anyone watch SNL Update last night about teachers and plumbers? Pretty funny.
    Whatever the facts, the thoughts of Obama were exposed. He is for wealth redistribution. He feels that giving people a "chance for success" is gained by taking from those who have worked hard, sacrificed, and "succeeded". While the Dems and their leftist allies (Dailykos) are trying to dig up dirt on the "messenger", they (as well as many posters here) conveniently ignore the message.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDCentStOhio View Post
    Whatever the facts, the thoughts of Obama were exposed. He is for wealth redistribution. He feels that giving people a "chance for success" is gained by taking from those who have worked hard, sacrificed, and "succeeded". While the Dems and their leftist allies (Dailykos) are trying to dig up dirt on the "messenger", they (as well as many posters here) conveniently ignore the message.
    The media is so far in the tank for Obama it's ridiculous. We live in a sad time when it takes a "campaign plant" to ask a Presidential candidate a tough question, looking for an honest answer.

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by RaoulDuke View Post
    What a farce.
    How many more fake scandals for Obama are the republicans going to try to manufacture between now and election day? It's really starting to get lame.

  7. #207
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    I agree Obama did not articulate his message very well, but I understood his meaning. If you are a boss is it a bad thing to want to your employees to do well?

    The whole leftists thing is a joke right? Which side cried about the constant "gotcha" questions?

    Quote Originally Posted by HDCentStOhio View Post
    Whatever the facts, the thoughts of Obama were exposed. He is for wealth redistribution. He feels that giving people a "chance for success" is gained by taking from those who have worked hard, sacrificed, and "succeeded". While the Dems and their leftist allies (Dailykos) are trying to dig up dirt on the "messenger", they (as well as many posters here) conveniently ignore the message.

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDCentStOhio View Post
    Whatever the facts, the thoughts of Obama were exposed. He is for wealth redistribution. He feels that giving people a "chance for success" is gained by taking from those who have worked hard, sacrificed, and "succeeded". While the Dems and their leftist allies (Dailykos) are trying to dig up dirt on the "messenger", they (as well as many posters here) conveniently ignore the message.
    HD, I understand your pain, but the idea of "wealth redistribution" only offends a select few people in this country, all of them being already inclined to vote for McCain.

    The middle class people who are struggling with health care, mortgages, education bills, etc. want some wealth distributed their way.

    I'm an attorney and my wife is a therapist and we make less than $250K, so guess what? I'm getting some of Joe the Plumber's $250+K and I'm damn happy about it.

    The wealth distribution argument put forth by conservatives is really an elitist argument that doesn'r resonate with the middle class undecided voters who would not have any more money taken from them.

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    HD, I understand your pain, but the idea of "wealth redistribution" only offends a select few people in this country, all of them being already inclined to vote for McCain.

    The middle class people who are struggling with health care, mortgages, education bills, etc. want some wealth distributed their way.

    I'm an attorney and my wife is a therapist and we make less than $250K, so guess what? I'm getting some of Joe the Plumber's $250+K and I'm damn happy about it.

    The wealth distribution argument put forth by conservatives is really an elitist argument that doesn'r resonate with the middle class undecided voters who would not have any more money taken from them.
    especially not with the recent revelations of criminal and unethical activity of some of America's wealthiest and most economically influential people ... Ken Lay, Wall Street, CEO's crazy bonuses etc ...not trying to argue that this perception is correct (although it may be) ... but I' just saying, this is on a lot of people's mind when they think about voting

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by SMC View Post
    HD, I understand your pain, but the idea of "wealth redistribution" only offends a select few people in this country, all of them being already inclined to vote for McCain.

    The middle class people who are struggling with health care, mortgages, education bills, etc. want some wealth distributed their way.

    I'm an attorney and my wife is a therapist and we make less than $250K, so guess what? I'm getting some of Joe the Plumber's $250+K and I'm damn happy about it.

    The wealth distribution argument put forth by conservatives is really an elitist argument that doesn'r resonate with the middle class undecided voters who would not have any more money taken from them.
    Don't count on your piece of the pie just yet!

    The bottom line is that Obama's plan may very well stifle ambition. Small business owners may opt to remain employees and not "take a chance" and go out on their own. Or take a second job starting their own "business". I am in that situation. I have my "regular job" as an employee. I also started my own sole proprietor consultant business 6 years ago. I did it so that I could save for retirement (no counting on social security here), and save for my kids college (no counting on scholarships or financial aid here). It is doing well, but I give up 2 free nights a week and 6 hours on average every weekend. Granted I can work from home, but I am not just "relaxing" but actively engaged. As it is now I am paying about 50% in taxes on my "extra" income. Because of my first job, I am starting in a higher bracket from dollar one. I often ask if it is worth it, but I do it anyway. I do it to provide a better life in the future for my family. I do it so I can pay for my kids college rather than rely on what may come from the government or outside sources. I do it so I do not have to rely on the government to fund my retirement, but do it myself.

    If this is "elitest" then guilty as charged. Two generations ago this was called "The American Dream".

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by cr726 View Post
    The whole leftists thing is a joke right? Which side cried about the constant "gotcha" questions?
    You don't think the DailyKos' of the world are trying to rip this poor guy to shreds?

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by HDCentStOhio View Post
    Don't count on your piece of the pie just yet!

    The bottom line is that Obama's plan may very well stifle ambition. Small business owners may opt to remain employees and not "take a chance" and go out on their own. Or take a second job starting their own "business".
    Sorry, HD, but this sounds like alarmist spin. You do realize that it's $250K of adjusted gross income right? It sounds incredible that any small business owner or wannabe small business over is going to dramatically alter his business plan for the worse because any $1 over $250,000 that he or she is pocketting is going to be taxed at a higher amount.

    Heck, as mentioned earlier in this thread, a small business owner who's net is $250,001 can upgrade equipment (thus improve his service), and have a net under $250K and not be affected.

    Heck, Obama's tax plan would cause more small businesses to invest in their own business rather than stiffle commerce or ambition.

    Quote Originally Posted by HDCentStOhio View Post
    I am in that situation. I have my "regular job" as an employee. I also started my own sole proprietor consultant business 6 years ago. I did it so that I could save for retirement (no counting on social security here), and save for my kids college (no counting on scholarships or financial aid here). It is doing well, but I give up 2 free nights a week and 6 hours on average every weekend. Granted I can work from home, but I am not just "relaxing" but actively engaged. As it is now I am paying about 50% in taxes on my "extra" income. Because of my first job, I am starting in a higher bracket from dollar one. I often ask if it is worth it, but I do it anyway. I do it to provide a better life in the future for my family. I do it so I can pay for my kids college rather than rely on what may come from the government or outside sources. I do it so I do not have to rely on the government to fund my retirement, but do it myself.
    Are you telling me that you are, right now, declaring $250,001 or more (so you fall under the Obama plan) in adjusted gross income? That means, after all your deductions and credits, your taxable income is over $250K?

    How is that possible?

    Why don't you invest more in your consultant side-job so you can be under $250K adjusted gross? As I mentioned above, if you invested in your "new" consultant job, you'll be paying less taxes.

    Quote Originally Posted by HDCentStOhio View Post
    If this is "elitest" then guilty as charged. Two generations ago this was called "The American Dream".
    In no way shape or form is this an affront to the "American Dream." Come on now. Taxes have ALWAYS been (in modern times) about wealth distribution. Always. Now you're upset about it? Where do you think your taxes are going? Your wealth (and mine) is being distributed to people who make less money than we do.

    Heck, there are a bunch of workers out there who legally don't pay taxes. Who's tax dollars subsidize their nonpayment? Yours and mine. Isn't that wealth distribution?

  13. #213
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    Maybe George or Joe will think a little bit before he acts. Isn't that the way of the world?

    Quote Originally Posted by HDCentStOhio View Post
    You don't think the DailyKos' of the world are trying to rip this poor guy to shreds?

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by PlumberKhan View Post
    So to re-cap:


    Joe the Plumber...not actually a plumber, he doesn't actually have any plans to buy his bosses his business, a business which only actually made 100 grand last year not 280,000 and Joe actually only made 40 grand last year.

    John McCain...making a fraud the centerpiece of his debate the other night. Boy, you sure can tell when Karl Rove isn't running sh*t for the Republicans anymore, can't you?



    Take it from a real plumber...Vote against the Republicans. I'll now be outside my house waiting for the media to show up to talk to me... TTYL...

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by jetgreen13 View Post

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuu faaola View Post
    Thx for posting that video.

    It was a pretty impressive exchange, both for the questioner and for Obama
    , and it gives you an insight into how Obama sees tax policy that, frankly, the lame-ass debate questions to date haven't brought out.

    Also worth noting, of course, is how little the Post story resembles the actual exchange. They call it a "fracas." It was about as civil and direct as anything I've seen on the campaign trail.
    Agreed.

  17. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by HDCentStOhio View Post
    Whatever the facts, the thoughts of Obama were exposed. He is for wealth redistribution. He feels that giving people a "chance for success" is gained by taking from those who have worked hard, sacrificed, and "succeeded". While the Dems and their leftist allies (Dailykos) are trying to dig up dirt on the "messenger", they (as well as many posters here) conveniently ignore the message.
    The 700 lb. pink donkey in the room.

    This is why we learned about a $1000 tax lien.

  18. #218
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    It works in Alaska.

    Quote Originally Posted by sackdance View Post
    The 700 lb. pink donkey in the room.

    This is why we learned about a $1000 tax lien.

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