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Thread: For those of you that don't think that McCain = Bush, answer this

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2807801]Update: He appears to not be Keating's grandson, any relation is not yet known

    [url]http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/10/16/133831/42/1001/632600[/url]


    the Wasilla connection is still valid, although circumstantial[/QUOTE]

    So we are just going to go along with the alleged and not anything concrete?

    But you support the guy who associates himself with terrorists, and has contributed large funds and who has provided legal services to ACORN, apart of the biggest voting fraudulent cases in history, as well as an association to the Fannie and Freddie demise, but here you are trying to allege Joe the plumber to McCain?

    Do any of you liberals realize how freaking stupid you look?

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=Ray Ray19;2807845]So we are just going to go along with the alleged and not anything concrete?

    But you support the guy who associates himself with terrorists, and has contributed large funds and who has provided legal services to ACORN, apart of the biggest voting fraudulent cases in history, as well as an association to the Fannie and Freddie demise, but here you are trying to allege Joe the plumber to McCain?

    Do any of you liberals realize how freaking stupid you look?[/QUOTE]

    I don't support Obama... nor anyone who voted for FISA 2 with retro-active immunity for the telecoms and thereby nullifying the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution

  3. #23
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    are you kidding me??? i'm glad someone got it right about joe the plumber's lineage. what you should be focusing on is how inept and stupid obama's whole tax plan is. obama can't even explain it yet he knows exactly how it's going to work and how much everyone get. first off, it should be known that a large percentage of the wage earners in this country pay no federal income tax whatsoever. the numer is around 40%. so how is obama actually going to cut taxes? he's going to cut taxes on these folks by giving them a handout, plain and simple. and where is this handout coming from? why all those bad people like joe the plumber who have the audacity for wanting to keep the money they earn. now what's wrong with this picture, taking from people who work very hard to acheive some sort of financial success and then just coming in to give it to somebody else just because some dope from chicago thinks it's fair. is this right???

    now i know the whole argument is those people have too much money but what is never said explicitly is that those people also pay the most in taxes. can they pay more without affecting their lifestyles? well that depends. people like brittany spears, madonna, paris hilton et al spend huge amounts of money. in fact i would hazard that they don't have much left over from watever budgetary constraints that they work under. but they are also spending money on things that need to be produced by someone some where. so their spending actually keeps people employed. now if you let the government take more of their money then less is available for them to spend on consumer purchases. therefore, less jobs are created. now i also know that you will say, okay but the government will just take that money and give it to the other 95% of the population and they will spend it. fair enough but the items those 95% will spend the money on are not necessarily the same items that brittany et al will buy. there is a certain amount of greater value created if someone spends $10,000 at once versus a group of 100 people who each spend $100. so there is a very different effect on the economy if you transfer wealth in this manner. moreover, as the money passes through the government's hands, some will shake off so you take $10,000 from brittany but maybe only $5,000 actually gets distributed to the people

    more troubling with obama is his lack of basic math skills. joe the plumber asked about a flat tax. (by the way you social security payments are a type of flat tax albeit one that diminishes as your income reaches $95,000 (i think)). well obama told joe that a flat tax would mean everyone would have to pay 40%. well do the math. the current tax code maximum rate is 36%. if 5% of people, the rich folk, pay something like 80% of the taxes and the bottom 95% pay less than 36% (keep in mind that 40% of the wage earners pay no federal income tax) then why would the flat tax be 40%??? in fact if the math is carried out the flat tax would be 20-25%. so now you are entrusting your future to someone who can't even do basic math. but yes he is right, the schools do need to be fixed.

    finallyobama's health care plan. obama said, if you currently have an employer plan then you need not change a thing. okay. if you need health care you will be able to have access to the same plan that the congress have. okay again. what he has never said is that you will have to pay for that congressional health care. he has never stated just how much that would be. clearly the health care situation must be fixed. the fact that we pay more than any other country is troubling and ways must be found to drive down or at least stabilize the costs. but let me tell you, anytime the government provides a direct subsidy for any kind of service, the costs for that service will go up. look in your own state college systems. in every state, college costs have risen at a pace way higher than inflation and economy growyth rates. and the sad part is that the quality of the education has lagged behind that of the rest of the world. why? because the government stepped in with handouts so people can "afford" to go to college and the colleges just took that money and just tacked on more expenses. i don't believe the government has ever called any university to task for excessive tuition. however they have called students to task for not paying thier student loans. you will see more of the same with obama because he just can stand to not spend money on foolishness.


    one final point. mccain gave obama some well deserved grief for the 800B of earmarks that obama had in the budget. considering the amount of time he's been in the senate, it's got to be some sort of a record. anyway the point here is that obama countered by saying 18 B is only a small fraction of the budget. true enough but what he didn't say was that there is only about 400 B of discretionary spending in the federal budget. the rest is entitlements. so that 18 B of earmarks is a subatantial part of the discretionary spending. also, obama claims that his energy plan will have 15 B per year to spend on alternative energy, well one way for him to do this is to cut out earmarks. seems like a pretty good tradeoff to me. but i don't think he has any interest in removing earmarks because earmarks mean power for those congressmen who get them and obama wants his team in controls.

  4. #24
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    Why does Mcain stick out his tongue? Moving his eyebrows up and down didn't look so weird until you see it in a loop like that.

    He almost seemed like he had a pick me up or something. Guess he is being more energetic so he seems younger.

    Jordan use to stick out his toungue but not on stage.

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=sameoldjets;2807884]more troubling with obama is his lack of basic math skills. joe the plumber asked about a flat tax. (by the way you social security payments are a type of flat tax albeit one that diminishes as your income reaches $95,000 (i think)). well obama told joe that a flat tax would mean everyone would have to pay 40%. well do the math. the current tax code maximum rate is 36%. if 5% of people, the rich folk, pay something like 80% of the taxes and the bottom 95% pay less than 36% (keep in mind that 40% of the wage earners pay no federal income tax) then why would the flat tax be 40%??? in fact if the math is carried out the flat tax would be 20-25%. so now you are entrusting your future to someone who can't even do basic math. but yes he is right, the schools do need to be fixed.[/QUOTE]
    So uhh, do you really think the calculation is that straightforward?

    You do realize that consumption taxes don't tax savings and investments right? They also can't tax what is sure to become a bigger cash black market. Also most of the prebate plans also don't have taxes for those earning under 40k (something McCain supports as well)

  6. #26
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    nobody said the whole tax is that straight forward but obama had better check his math before opening his mouth about these things. it's much like his supposed tax cut. the wall street journal published a chart that indicated that the marginal tax rates for just about everyone would increase under obama's plan so what he giveth with his right hand he taketh away with his left. as for consumption tax i think you have to realize that they are paid when things are purchased. the more you purchase the more taxes you pay. and on your point of not taxing savings, well at some point savings are spent. after all what is the purpose of simply saving money? after a point there is no need? save for the future? regardless of who you are your future is feeding the worms so savings are only valuable to people who are living. another things about a consumption tax is that it is optional. if you don't buy something, you don't pay any tax. now wouldn't that be interesting. a tax protest, where you wouldn't pay any taxes, could be launched by the people simply by not purchasing anything. it would kind of put the power back into the people's hands. but the governments don't want that. there is a reason why the tax coade is so large and that is to keep control of the whole process. also, you mentioned that there would be an underground economy. like there isn't one now? currently the irs can not recover about 290 B in legit taxes.

    but in reality it all comes back to a high degree in trust of the governemnt. the current financial crisis is doing nothing to instill trust and obama has got to be painted with this same brush. after all he did take money from fannie and has franklin raines on his staff. and obama's plan is to grow the government. the very same people who enabled this situation to get out of hand are still there. that is the sad part.

    by the way, something like 40% of the wage earners pay no federal income tax. that whole system was started under reagan.

    [QUOTE=CTM;2807954]So uhh, do you really think the calculation is that straightforward?

    You do realize that consumption taxes don't tax savings and investments right? They also can't tax what is sure to become a bigger cash black market. Also most of the prebate plans also don't have taxes for those earning under 40k (something McCain supports as well)[/QUOTE]

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