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Thread: Get ready for more economic trouble ahead

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    Get ready for more economic trouble ahead

    [QUOTE]
    -We're in for a rough ride given the financial crisis
    -We can't spend money heavily and not pay the consequences
    -Governments have raised taxes to support out-of-control spending
    -Put party differences aside and prepare for tough times[/QUOTE]

    [QUOTE]NEW YORK (CNN) -- Despite the best efforts of our politicians to convince us otherwise, there is no easy way out of the financial crisis we've created.

    [B]Gimmicks and Band-Aids won't solve the underlying problem; they just delay its impact until after the election. While that might help politicians keep their jobs, it won't help you and me keep ours.[/B]

    A lot of us saw what was coming before the dam broke. We didn't need fancy graphs or prize-winning economists to warn us. We just used common sense. But now that same common sense is now telling us something else: Every action has an equal and opposite reaction.

    We can't print billions of new dollars and expect there to never be a consequence for it down the road. We can't unwind a bubble built on historic levels of greed by simply writing a check or passing a law.

    I'm sorry that I don't have any magic pills to offer, but for those who are ready to stop treating our gunshot wound with painkillers and start finding some real solutions, I have a few ideas.

    [B]No. 1: Preparation, not panic.[/B]

    Things could get really bad before they get better. Really, really bad. But you'll never know what's coming by watching the Dow every day -- it's a terrible indicator. In fact, the four largest percentage gains in the Dow's history happened between 1929 and 1933, a period that wasn't exactly a great time to buy.

    What we're experiencing right now are the outer bands of a hurricane with an eye that likely won't hit us for another year or two. In the meantime, there will be plenty of sunny days, but they'll just distract us from what's coming. Stay focused on what your gut tells you is still churning just offshore.

    As you wait, do what those in the path of a real hurricane do: prepare. Build an emergency cash fund, store some extra food, learn a new skill, consult a financial adviser ... do anything that will get you and your family ready. Just don't panic.

    [B]No. 2: Early retirement.[/B]

    Does anyone else find it odd that some of the same people who proved their financial incompetence during the S&L crisis, the dot-com bubble and the housing bubble are still in office to guide us through this economic crisis?

    [B]John McCain (first elected to Congress in 1982), Joe Biden (1972), Robert Byrd (1952), John Dingell (1955), Daniel Inouye (1962) and Ted Stevens (1968) are just a few examples of national politicians who were seemingly roaming Washington right alongside the dinosaurs.[/B]

    How many of you have been in the same job since the '70s? Outside of politics (and "60 Minutes"), it just doesn't happen.

    I understand the case against term limits. I know that some people believe it would force them to retire just as they begin to "master" (please, no laughter) the issues -- but is that really a bad thing?

    Maybe having people who are curious enough to ask simple questions about seemingly routine issues is exactly what we need. For example, a great question circa 2004 might have been: "So what happens if housing prices ever start to decline?"

    [B]No. 3: Power isn't permanent. Take it back.[/B]

    [B]Giving our government more and more power every year has almost become routine. But when's the last time we've told our leaders that they're doing such a lousy job we want some of it back?[/B]

    Massachusetts is now trying just that. On Election Day, their residents will vote on whether to eliminate their state income tax. If passed, each Massachusetts taxpayer would save an average of about $3,600 a year.

    Of course, establishment politicians are sounding all kinds of dire warnings about what will happen to state programs without the tax, but I'd be willing to bet that they'll find a way to adapt and survive. After all, it's not called "Taxachusetts" for nothing.

    [B]Just remember our government has power only because We the People lend it to them. Maybe it's time to treat them like the subprime borrower they are and recall that loan.[/B] :yes:

    [B]No. 4: Live within your means and demand our leaders do the same.[/B]

    In 1991, my home state of Connecticut (the Constitution State -- oh, the irony) was suffering from a budget deficit of nearly a billion dollars.

    Instead of using those hard times as an opportunity to convince the state to start living within their means, the governor proposed an income tax. After a long stalemate, the General Assembly eventually agreed.

    Now, 17 years later, that income tax (which, of course, has been raised over the years) is projected to bring in about $7.6 billion. Add in $350 million in revenue from Indian casinos that wasn't there in 1991, and Connecticut now has nearly $8 billion in new revenue to play with.

    So, with all of that money, they must now have massive surpluses, right? Wrong. Connecticut's governor recently announced that this year's budget deficit has increased to $300 million, and she says it might still get worse.

    [B]How did it happen? Easy: out-of-control spending. In 1991, Connecticut's spending budget was $7.6 billion. Now? It's $17.5 billion -- an increase of 130 percent. Believe me, as someone who lives in Connecticut, there hasn't been a 130 percent improvement in roads, schools or hospitals over that time.[/B]

    [B]It's time to stop giving these clowns any more money (see No. 3, above) and force them to start living within their means.[/B]

    [B]No. 5: Goodnight Saigon[/B]

    The chorus of Billy Joel's famous song about the Vietnam War still rings true today: We will all go down together.

    When the eye of the storm finally comes ashore, nothing will be less relevant than whether you're a registered Democrat or Republican. It didn't matter during Pearl Harbor, the Cuban Missile Crisis or Oklahoma City, and I certainly don't remember anyone asking to see a voter ID card before they gave you a hug on 9/11.

    [B]If September 11 was the worst day in American history, then September 12 was one of the best. Do you remember what it was like? Lines at blood banks; filled-up churches; neighbors watching out for each other; families sitting around the dinner table and talking to each other.[/B]

    [B]It was the America we all long for -- and we can have it back. But if you're waiting for another historic crisis to convince you to put the donkeys and elephants aside and reconnect with each other, then open your eyes; we're in the middle of it.[/B][/QUOTE]

    [url]http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/16/beck.crisis/index.html[/url]

  2. #2
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    Good article.

    The only good thing about dems controlling everything is that there will be nobody to blame. Get the finances in order or be held accountable.

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    5% layoffs at my company yesterday. Layoffs coming at my wife's company. A lot of people will lose their jobs between now and Christmas. Speaking of Christmas, expect very few seasonal jobs and an awful holiday sales season, probably resulting in more businesses going under.

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    ahh, glen beck. gotta love a guy who made it so well without college and had a substance abuse problem. maybe you need to suffer hardship to truly understand what matters. and he's absolutely right about CT. ct simply sucks. it's run by the dopes down in fairfield (heaven forbib we offend all those important hedge fudn managers) and the cities keep on pursuing their stupid welfare state policies. for years, new haven 's solution to balancing its budget is to raise the city tax rates. the problem is that many of the property is either valueless of owned by peope who can't afford to pay. so the taxes fall on those who can like the middle class homeowners. the homeowners by and large will move if they can and many do. what happens? the tax base is further eroded so the city has to raise taxes agains and the viscious circle keeps going around and around. plus the mayor is a liberal half wit who would rather pander to the yale liberals for their crumbs instead of trying to make his city a safe place to live by stomping on the gangs and the criminals.

    and ct as a whole has certainly gotten around its balanced amendment. how, by simply floating bonds for projects that they can't raise taxes for. i remember the arguement that weiker made when he instituted the income tax. he said the people would basically be paying the same as they did with just the sales tax. i uess he couldn't do the math any better than obama. seems to be a trend with the dems. anyway my taxes went up a full $3200 per year. my sales tax burden was around $500. so much for tax fairness.

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    [QUOTE=CTM;2807902]Good article.

    The only good thing about dems controlling everything is that there will be nobody to blame. Get the finances in order or be held accountable.[/QUOTE]

    Someone needs to make the tough decisions even if it sacrifices our generation for a decade or longer. It is quickly becoming clear to me that the decisions made in the next 4 to 5 years will determine how long America can remain a leader in the free world both economically and with our system of government. The Roman Empire lasted a long time but eventually fell. Whether the 200 year American experiment can endure for the longterm or fizzles out in the next century is a valid question.

    I think we need to put every issue and topic of significance on the table - Social Security, Energy, Defense, Education, Immigration, Healthcare, and the Economy - and then realize how interconnected they are. Then, we need leaders with very strong wills who look beyond the next election cycle and into the distant future and say, "The time for sacrifice is now, for ALL of us. Everyone in this country is going to contribute in some way, shape or form to ensure that America endures because places like India, China, and Brazil are emerging. You may not have a problem shifting the burden of enormous debt to your children but I won't let us do that."

    We don't need tax cuts for the "rich" but we also don't want "wealth redistribution" through tax policies. We need everyone to sacrifice just a little and to stop making decisions based on instant gratification. This entire notion of "enjoy now, pay later" that both citizens AND the government have been following is ridiculous. We need to sacrifice and innovate our way out of this mess. There's a reason why we were the first country on the Moon, the birthplace of incredible technologies and the place that people from around the world come to for advanced medical treatments. It's because we're a country of innovation that has always rewarded those who take the risks to achieve great things. Wow....I'm rambling. It just sucks the soul out of me to see the things I'm seeing these days and watch poor decision makers (including Congress) get a free pass and even bailed out by those who've done the right thing.
    Last edited by jetstream23; 10-16-2008 at 07:59 PM.

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    [QUOTE=jetstream23;2807934]It is quickly becoming clear to me that the decisions made in the next 4 to 5 years will determine how long America can remain a leader in the free world both economically and with our system of government. [/QUOTE]

    Ironically, that pertains equally to the decisions that were made the past 4 to 5 years.

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    [QUOTE=jetstream23;2807934]Someone needs to make the tough decisions even if it sacrifices our generation for a decade or longer. It is quickly becoming clear to me that the decisions made in the next 4 to 5 years will determine how long America can remain a leader in the free world both economically and with our system of government. The Roman Empire lasted a long time but eventually fell. Whether the 200 year American experiment can endure for the longterm or fizzles out in the next century is a valid question.

    I think we need to put every issue and topic of significance on the table - Social Security, Energy, Defense, Education, Immigration, Healthcare, and the Economy - and then realize how interconnected they are. Then, we need leaders with very strong wills who look beyond the next election cycle and into the distant future and say, "The time for sacrifice is now, for ALL of us. Everyone in this country is going to contribute in some way, shape or form to ensure that America endures because places like India, China, and Brazil are emerging. You may not have a problem shifting the burden of enormous debt to your children but I won't let us do that."

    We don't need tax cuts for the "rich" but we also don't want "wealth redistribution" through tax policies. We need everyone to sacrifice just a little and to stop making decisions based on instant gratification. This entire notion of "enjoy now, pay later" that both citizens AND the government have been following is ridiculous. We need to sacrifice and innovate our way out of this mess. There's a reason why we were the first country on the Moon, the birthplace of incredible technologies and the place that people from around the world come to for advanced medical treatments. It's because we're a country of innovation that has always rewarded those who take the risks to achieve great things. Wow....I'm rambling. It just sucks the soul out of me to see the things I'm seeing these days and watch poor decision makers (including Congress) get a free pass and even bailed out by those who've done the right thing.[/QUOTE]

    Yes! I've been saying this for awhile. Americans today seem to think the America's position as the worlds super power is a birthright or something.

    It's absolutely astounding that they have no sense of history to understand that much more dominant civilizations fell in the past. It's only a matter of time for us as I think we've passed the point of no return. I really do too and I don't need to look any further then the parents I talk to who don't who have any concept of saving or sacrifice and pass along these abhorrant traits on to their darling offspring.

    Having a politicians with the balls to say it is one thing (which is something I like about Obama as he atleast alludes to sacrifice), getting them elected is quite another. I think most americans would prefer to be deluded.

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    [QUOTE]Things could get really bad before they get better. Really, really bad. But you'll never know what's coming by watching the Dow every day -- it's a terrible indicator. In fact, the four largest percentage gains in the Dow's history happened between 1929 and 1933, a period that wasn't exactly a great time to buy.

    What we're experiencing right now are the outer bands of a hurricane with an eye that likely won't hit us for another year or two.[/QUOTE]

    Esp with all the additional spending Obumble promises to do!! Are there enough people over $250K to tax higher to pay for it?

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    [QUOTE=asuusa;2808086]Esp with all the additional spending Obumble promises to do!! Are there enough people over $250K to tax higher to pay for it?[/QUOTE]

    We'll start with you and go from there. Fork it over, bub.

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    good article, and a great ending;

    [QUOTE]
    If September 11 was the worst day in American history, then September 12 was one of the best. Do you remember what it was like? Lines at blood banks; filled-up churches; neighbors watching out for each other; families sitting around the dinner table and talking to each other.

    It was the America we all long for -- and we can have it back. But if you're waiting for another historic crisis to convince you to put the donkeys and elephants aside and reconnect with each other, then open your eyes; we're in the middle of it.[/QUOTE]

    I know my fiance is worried about her job, I think I am relatively rock solid, but I do agree this holiday season will be much worse than people think, and probably result in a rough January through May....

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    [QUOTE=piney;2808168]good article, and a great ending;



    I know my fiance is worried about her job, I think I am relatively rock solid, but I do agree this holiday season will be much worse than people think, and probably result in a rough January through May....[/QUOTE]

    I agree. Probably the roughest holiday season for retailers in some time.

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    [QUOTE=BushyTheBeaver;2807938]Ironically, that pertains equally to the decisions that were made the past 4 to 5 years.[/QUOTE]

    Or 10 or 20 or 30...My point, in contrast to CTM's, is that I don't think we've passed the point of no return. But, we're quickly approaching and we're going too fast. It's like the Titanic....we see the iceberg but do we have enough time to turn?

    As CTM and I have railed on for some time now, it all comes down to personal responsibility and decision making. Anyone not saving a portion of his paycheck and teaching his kid's the value of earned money is not only doing a disservice to his family but a disservice to our country.

    As much as Barack Obama discusses "trickle up" with his tax plan that will enable lower income and middle class people to keep more of what they make, he needs to also encourage "saving up" for the same demographic because it is 100% unacceptable for someone to not be saving for retirement or his kid's education while at the same time buying flat screen TVs and a new toy for the garage while b!tching about the economy.

    This country needs to have all the major networks air a coordinated special on TV. Similar to how 7 channels carry the debate, we need a 1 hour special on Civics and Economics 101. Our country educates kids on photosynthesis and the square root of Pi but doesn't spend any significant time teaching people how the monetary and banking system works in this country. 80% of the American public has little or no basic finance skills and, even worse, what they do know seems to have been taught to them by credit card companies or mortgage brokers.

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    [QUOTE=jetstream23;2808230]
    As CTM and I have railed on for some time now, it all comes down to personal responsibility and decision making. Anyone not saving a portion of his paycheck and teaching his kid's the value of earned money is not only doing a disservice to his family but a disservice to our country.

    As much as Barack Obama discusses "trickle up" with his tax plan that will enable lower income and middle class people to keep more of what they make, he needs to also encourage "saving up" for the same demographic because it is 100% unacceptable for someone to not be saving for retirement or his kid's education while at the same time buying flat screen TVs and a new toy for the garage while b!tching about the economy.[/QUOTE]

    What exactly is your interpretation of trickle up?

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    [QUOTE=BushyTheBeaver;2808234]What exactly is your interpretation of trickle up?[/QUOTE]

    In a nutshell, as I understand it from what I've heard Obama say, it seems to be a theory that cutting taxes for everyone below a certain income will encourage economic growth by fostering more spending that essentially "trickles up" to benefit businesses and thus, shareholders, investors, business owners, etc. In other words, take a guy making $50K and cut his taxes so he'll spend more and help grow the economy.

    My problem with this is that I don't think it truly grows the economy. I think that cutting taxes for the lower incomes spurs [U]spending[/U], not [U]investment[/U]. And, there's a big difference between the two. I think that cutting taxes for businesses and not raising taxes on upper incomes spurs investment, the funding of new ideas, innovation, expansion of business enterprises, the hiring of workers, etc.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not for just cutting taxes on upper incomes, I'm for cutting taxes for EVERYONE. You and I and the guy running the custom printing business down the block and the woman running a music school from her home can ALL spend our money 10X better than the government. Give the government more money and they build a bridge to nowhere, spend $2M testing whether cow farts contribute to global warming and now spend $700M buying up toxic mortgage debt. You, on the other hand, might think carefully about spending that money in your community, saving for a kid's college education, or deciding to buy a slightly more expensive hybrid car instead of regular one. I might spend that money the same way, or sending my kid to that woman's music school, helping to keep her business running. Businesses in this country might invest their tax savings in innovative technologies that help them compete better with Chinese companies or develop more environmentally friendly processes.

    I'm clearly for low taxes, low spending and believe that the government which governs least governs best. Trickle up, trickle down, etc. wouldn't be necessary if we just let it trickle all around naturally.
    Last edited by jetstream23; 10-17-2008 at 01:25 AM.

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    [QUOTE=jetstream23;2808230]Anyone not saving a portion of his paycheck and teaching his kid's the value of earned money is not only doing a disservice to his family but a disservice to our country...[/QUOTE]

    [I][B]Don't misconstrue this as a personal attack...[/B][/I]

    But go screw yourself, buddy. You sound like an elitist POS. Some of us don't have enough money to save....you know, real Americans with whom your party pretends they are in touch with. Some of us have medical bills that put a strain on our budget. Some of us have older ambulatory parents living with us who we have to care for. Some of us have cars that need repair constantly because we thought we were doing the right thing by buying American.

    So basically, because times are tough and I can't save...I'm a bad father and an unpatriotic bastard? Please, try to understand what 90% of your neighbors are going through.

    "I do say James, I don't understand why the dolts just don't invest their wealth in stocks and mutual funds. When I needed help managing my wealth, I contacted my broker and we discussed my retirement plans over tea and crumpets at Starbucks..."

    Man...you city people are really really out of touch, aren't you? I thought that was something the RNC made up just to get us country bumpkins riled up...but man, you are all just out there...

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2808318][I][B]Don't misconstrue this as a personal attack...[/B][/I]

    But go screw yourself, buddy. You sound like an elitist POS. Some of us don't have enough money to save....you know, real Americans with whom your party pretends they are in touch with. Some of us have medical bills that put a strain on our budget. Some of us have older ambulatory parents living with us who we have to care for. Some of us have cars that need repair constantly because we thought we were doing the right thing by buying American.

    So basically, because times are tough and I can't save...I'm a bad father and an unpatriotic bastard? Please, try to understand what 90% of your neighbors are going through.

    "I do say James, I don't understand why the dolts just don't invest their wealth in stocks and mutual funds. When I needed help managing my wealth, I contacted my broker and we discussed my retirement plans over tea and crumpets at Starbucks..."

    Man...you city people are really really out of touch, aren't you? I thought that was something the RNC made up just to get us country bumpkins riled up...but man, you are all just out there...[/QUOTE]

    Easy, big fella. I don't think JetStream's comment was in any way meant to be an indictment of those who can't save due to hardship. He was talking about those who [I]could [/I]be saving but aren't.

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2808318][I][B]Don't misconstrue this as a personal attack...[/B][/I]

    But go screw yourself, buddy. You sound like an elitist POS. Some of us don't have enough money to save....you know, real Americans with whom your party pretends they are in touch with. Some of us have medical bills that put a strain on our budget. Some of us have older ambulatory parents living with us who we have to care for. Some of us have cars that need repair constantly because we thought we were doing the right thing by buying American.

    So basically, because times are tough and I can't save...I'm a bad father and an unpatriotic bastard? Please, try to understand what 90% of your neighbors are going through.

    "I do say James, I don't understand why the dolts just don't invest their wealth in stocks and mutual funds. When I needed help managing my wealth, I contacted my broker and we discussed my retirement plans over tea and crumpets at Starbucks..."

    Man...you city people are really really out of touch, aren't you? I thought that was something the RNC made up just to get us country bumpkins riled up...but man, you are all just out there...[/QUOTE]

    Are you describing yourself? Cause, as long as we're being frank here, many (not all) of these hardship people you describe that I meet, also own cell phone with extravagant text and minute plans, xbox 360's, have a pack+ a day smoking habit (if a couple, this adds up to almost 6k a year), drink frequently, eat out frequently, etc..

    As stated, this certainly isn't the case for all of them, but certainly is the case for a good portion of them, frankly if you fit the mold I described then you aren't saving because you choose to, not because you can't.

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    [QUOTE=CTM;2808557]Are you describing yourself? Cause, as long as we're being frank here, many (not all) of these hardship people you describe that I meet, also own cell phone with extravagant text and minute plans, xbox 360's, have a pack+ a day smoking habit (if a couple, this adds up to almost 6k a year), drink frequently, eat out frequently, etc..

    As stated, this certainly isn't the case for all of them, but certainly is the case for a good portion of them, frankly if you fit the mold I described then you aren't saving because you choose to, not because you can't.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah...I have 3 kids with another (possible) 2 on the way. So...no, I don't waste too much money on texting and eating out frequently...but will in the future, won't I?

    I do, however, own a PS3.

    I'm a horrible, horrible father/person/citizen.

    FWIW...In my travels as a plumber, I have heard rich people cry poverty way more than the poor. A doctor/lawyer is waay more likely to stiff their plumber out of money than some dude living in a trailer.

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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2810197]Yeah...I have 3 kids with another (possible) 2 on the way. So...no, I don't waste too much money on texting and eating out frequently...but will in the future, won't I?

    I do, however, own a PS3.
    [B]
    I'm a horrible, horrible father/person/citizen.
    [/B]
    FWIW...In my travels as a plumber, I have heard rich people cry poverty way more than the poor. A doctor/lawyer is waay more likely to stiff their plumber out of money than some dude living in a trailer.[/QUOTE]

    I don't see any reason for the drama. I am of the mindset that almost everyone can save if they sacrifice and are responsible with their money. That was my only point.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2810197]Yeah...I have 3 kids with another (possible) 2 on the way. So...no, I don't waste too much money on texting and eating out frequently...but will in the future, won't I?

    I do, however, own a PS3.

    I'm a horrible, horrible father/person/citizen.

    FWIW...In my travels as a plumber, I have heard rich people cry poverty way more than the poor. A doctor/lawyer is waay more likely to stiff their plumber out of money than some dude living in a trailer.[/QUOTE]

    I have no problem with what jetstream said, and you're doing the best you can, I'm sure. Good luck to your growing family.

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