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Thread: Obama Is Against Christmas?

  1. #41
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2808592]great post...

    for the record I don't care what anyone wants to describe me as here I will not let Christmas nor those that celebrate it here get bashed in this thread, I'm an inch from closing it...I would also do the same thing for a Hanakuh thread, so don't even go there.[/QUOTE]

    Well that misses the point entirely. And the fact that you found Crazy's post "great" makes me wonder what you read there. So you are basically saying that anyone who thinks the way Americans celebrate their holidays is an "off-limits" topic? Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and (last but not least) Hallmark and the flower industry thank you (for Valentine's Day, of course). We won't mention those other sacred holidays like Mother's Day and Father's Day, which are more examples of egregious commercialism. Questioning how one celebrates is quite different, obviously, from questioning the fact that one has specific beliefs. Does ANY self-respecting Christian really see something positive in hunting for Easter eggs on the day of Christ's resurrection? I rest my case.

  2. #42
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2808395]I truly could give a rats*ss about how people celebrate the holidays. I'm personally very happy to engage the pagan rituals with my family, including that solstice tree, Santa Claus, and, yes, exchanging gifts, although we've pretty well agreed that it's gotten completely out of hand and should be fun not a source of debt-accumulation and blatant materialism. But to set the record straight, this stuff has been a source of controversy in the church from the days of the Church fathers.... see some of the excerpts from Wikipedia below:

    "The celebration of Christmas as a feast did not arise for some time after Chronographai was published. Tertullian does not mention it as a major feast day in the Church of Roman Africa. In 245, the theologian Origen of Alexandria denounced the idea of celebrating Christ's birthday "as if he were a king pharaoh". He contended that only sinners, not saints, celebrated their birthdays.[21]
    During the Reformation, some Protestants[who?] condemned Christmas celebration as "trappings of popery" and the "rags of the Beast."[26] The Roman Catholic Church responded by promoting the festival in a more religiously oriented form. Following the Parliamentarian victory over King Charles I during the English Civil War, England's Puritan rulers banned Christmas, in 1647.[26] Pro-Christmas rioting broke out in several cities, and for weeks Canterbury was controlled by the rioters, who decorated doorways with holly and shouted royalist slogans.[26] The Restoration of Charles II in 1660 ended the ban, but many clergymen still disapproved of Christmas celebration.
    In Colonial America, the Puritans of New England disapproved of Christmas. Celebration was outlawed in Boston from 1659 to 1681.
    In America, interest in Christmas was revived in the 1820s by several short stories by Washington Irving which appear in his The Sketch Book of Geoffrey Crayon and "Old Christmas", and by Clement Clarke Moore's 1822 poem A Visit From St. Nicholas (popularly known by its first line: Twas the Night Before Christmas).[29] Irving's stories depicted harmonious warm-hearted holiday traditions he claimed to have observed in England. Although some argue that Irving invented the traditions he describes, they were widely imitated by his American readers. The poem A Visit from Saint Nicholas popularized the tradition of exchanging gifts and seasonal Christmas shopping began to assume economic importance.[30] In her 1850 book "The First Christmas in New England", Harriet Beecher Stowe includes a character who complains that the true meaning of Christmas was lost in a shopping spree.[31]

    Originating from Western culture, where the holiday is characterized by the exchange of gifts among friends and family members, some of the gifts are attributed to a character called Santa Claus (also known as Father Christmas, Saint Nicholas or St. Nikolaus, Sinterklaas, Kris Kringle, Père Noël, Joulupukki, Babbo Natale, Weihnachtsmann, Saint Basil and Father Frost).
    In past centuries, Christmas-related controversy was mainly restricted to concerns of a public focus on secular Christmas themes such as Santa Claus and gift giving rather than what is sometimes expressed as the "reason for the season"—the birth of Jesus. The term "Xmas", the subject of controversy during the mid-to-late 20th century, originated from the use of the Greek letter chi, Χ, as an abbreviation of Christ (Χριστός).[15]"[/QUOTE]chavez speaks...by the way i completely agree with you...and that scares me.

  3. #43
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    Yep, definitely sounds like he has too much Muslim left in him.

    But hey, let's not confuse the fact that they're just trying to be good parents with the need for radical conservatives to make sh-t up.

    [url]http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/12035.html[/url]

    [QUOTE][B]Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) tells People magazine in the issue out Friday that he and his wife, Michelle, do not give Christmas or birthday presents to their two young daughters. [/B]

    [B]Obama tells the magazine’s Sandra Sobieraj Westfall in a seven-page cover story that he and his wife follow the unusual practice because they “want to teach some limits.” [/B]
    [B]
    In the interview earlier this summer, Obama noted that they do spend “hundreds” of dollars on birthday slumber parties.

    Michelle Obama told People: “Malia says, ‘I know there is a Santa because there’s no way you’d buy me all that stuff.’ ”[/B]

    Wink.

    The cover says: “THE OBAMAS AT HOME – EXCLUSIVE PHOTOS! – From piano practice and pillow talk to who does the chores (not him!), Barack, Michelle and daughters Sasha [7] and Malia [10] offer a rare look into their Chicago home.”

    See also
    McCain struggles to overcome economy gap
    Obama to Berlin: 'This is our moment'
    On Iraq, now is when judgment matters
    Westfall writes: “The girls may be irreverent, but they are also well mannered, slipping off their shoes before climbing on the velvet sofa. ‘There are downstairs rules,’ Michelle says later, like
    no shoes on the furniture. But in the girls’ third-floor playroom the couch doubles as a trampoline. ‘So there are different rules in different parts of the house,’ Michelle continues.

    “In the kitchen, where it’s the girls’ job to set and clear the dinner table, sunlight streams through a solarium-style glass wall, showing off black granite countertops—and dust collecting on an unopened bottle of Kendall- Jackson chardonnay. Michelle’s 71-year-old mother, Marian Robinson, is unpacking the family’s takeout lunch from Subway."

    Here are the seven “Obama House Rules” listed by the magazine:

    1) “No whining, arguing or annoying teasing,” says Michelle Obama.

    2) Make the bed. “Doesn’t have to look good—just throw the sheet over it,” says Mom.

    3) Set your own alarm clock. “They get themselves up, get their own clothes,” says Sasha and Malia’s grandmother Marian Robinson. “They’re very easy to take care of; there’s not much left for me to do!”

    4) Keep playroom toy closet clean.

    5) Allowance from Dad for doing chores: $1 per week. “I’m out of town all the time,” says Barack, “so Malia will say, ‘Hey, you owe me 10 weeks!’ ”

    [B]6) No birthday or Christmas presents from Mom and Dad, who spend “hundreds” on birthday slumber parties and, as Barack puts it, “want to teach some limits.” Says Michelle: “Malia says, ‘I know there is a Santa because there’s no way you’d buy me all that stuff.’ ” [/B]

    7) Lights out at 8:30. “They got an extra half hour when they were ready to read on their own,” says Michelle.
    [/QUOTE]

  4. #44
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2808592]great post...

    for the record I don't care what anyone wants to describe me as here I will not let Christmas nor those that celebrate it here get bashed in this thread, I'm an inch from closing it...I would also do the same thing for a Hanakuh thread, so don't even go there.[/QUOTE]

    Respectfully, I think you are jumping the gun on this one. Re-read the thread. THere is nothing offensive going on here (other than the notion that Obama will cancel Christmas, which is more laughable than anything.)

  5. #45
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2808738]Well that misses the point entirely. And the fact that you found Crazy's post "great" makes me wonder what you read there. So you are basically saying that anyone who thinks the way Americans celebrate their holidays is an "off-limits" topic? Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and (last but not least) Hallmark and the flower industry thank you (for Valentine's Day, of course). We won't mention those other sacred holidays like Mother's Day and Father's Day, which are more examples of egregious commercialism. Questioning how one celebrates is quite different, obviously, from questioning the fact that one has specific beliefs. Does ANY self-respecting Christian really see something positive in hunting for Easter eggs on the day of Christ's resurrection? I rest my case.[/QUOTE]

    please, if that is what you interpret from my post I'm done here

  6. #46
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2808386]If President Obama cancels Christmas, I'm gonna be pissed.[/QUOTE]

    He won't cancel it, but if a kid's parents make too much money then that kid has to give 2 out of every 3 toys he got to a kid whose parents have too much credit card debt.

  7. #47
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2808592]great post...

    for the record I don't care what anyone wants to describe me as here I will not let Christmas nor those that celebrate it here get bashed in this thread, I'm an inch from closing it...I would also do the same thing for a Hanakuh thread, so don't even go there.[/QUOTE]

    for the record, jetswin would be my choice for referee in a boxing match between Santa Claus and Hanakuh Harry!

    :D

  8. #48
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    Here is what the last part of that article that Dean posted says:


    "These are signs that he has a little Muslim still left in him, because Muslims do not celebrate with gifts."

    There are plenty of people from all kinds of religions and backgrounds who don't celebrate with gifts. Jehovah Witness' don't, either. Is Obama a Jehovah extremist, too? crazyffinjetsfan is complaining about someone taking away his right to celebrate Christmas with his kids the way he sees fit, but he won't grant Obama the same kind of respect in return. Talk about hypocrisy!


    "From this I get that if Obama is elected president that during Christmas there will be no Christmas tree at the White House and it will be dark! This goes right down the line of being a far left liberal because they have been trying to get rid of Christmas for sometime now. Americans, do we really want a person like this as president?"

    So let me see, all this huffing and puffing and crying is all based on what some hack writer on a website THINKS is going to happen? This display of ignorance and closet racism would be laughable if it wasn't so sad. Chicken Little called, he said he thinks that because Obama puts his kids to bed before 9, he's going to make it a law for all American's to go to sleep before that time. After all, Muslims do it!! :rolleyes:
    Last edited by JoeyStylez; 10-17-2008 at 02:04 PM.

  9. #49
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2808592]great post...

    for the record I don't care what anyone wants to describe me as here I will not let Christmas nor those that celebrate it here get bashed in this thread, I'm an inch from closing it...I would also do the same thing for a Hanakuh thread, so don't even go there.[/QUOTE]
    Please, what are you, the guardian of all things Christmas? I happen to love the holiday itself and what it stands for (NOT the crass commercialism of it), but if I feel like bashing it...or any other holiday for that matter...then I'll do so without hesitation. It's OK for certain posters on here to post unkind remarks about Arabs and Muslims (honestly, what are you so afraid of?) but bashing Christmas gets this thread locked? :confused:

  10. #50
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    [QUOTE=JoeyStylez;2808816]Please, what are you, the guardian of all things Christmas? I happen to love the holiday itself and what it stands for (NOT the crass commercialism of it), but if I feel like bashing it...or any other holiday for that matter...then I'll do so without hesitation. It's OK for certain posters on here to post unkind remarks about Arabs and Muslims (honestly, what are you so afraid of?) but bashing Christmas gets this thread locked? :confused:[/QUOTE]

    ok, against my better judgement here goes...

    I too feel there is an assault on Christmas, a couple of years ago the kids were not allowed to sing Christmas Carols at the "Winter" concert in my town. It is Happy Holidays now and I find that offensive. Say Happy Hanakuh and Merry Christmas, what is wrong with that? I know the initial post had plenty of assumptions in it and I truly doubt that Obama (should he win) would eliminate a Christmas tree, however i don't think every discussion of the subject should include the idea that all anyone gets upset about over Christmas is the commercialism.

    I don't see what Arabs and Muslims have to do with this subject other than the original poster's unfortunate allusion to what Obama's motivation might be if he "cancelled" Christmas.

  11. #51
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    sue me, but I love the commercialism...

    I am not a religious man, to me Christmas is a great time of year. I like to buy presents for my loved ones and have a dinner so large I need to unbuttom my pants.

    I love watching "A Christmas Story" during its 24 hour cycle, I like the crowded malls. The general buzz that emanates from the stores.

    Yeah I know it gets crowded, but hey, that is more about people being selfish than caring about the true representation of Christmas.

    To me, the best holidays are the ones that make seeing your family a requirement...in my advancing years I see less and less of my extended family, there are maybe four times a year we all feel that we have to get together.

    Thank the stars for Thanksgiving and Christmas.

    FOr those who think that "Happy Holidays" is offensive...well...I think you may be the worst offenders of them all.

    You feel that your specific holiday should get special treatment? People celebrate and don't celebrate.

    If a private company makes the decision to not single out Christmas as the lone holiday tough luck.

    Go home and get that fulfillment with your friends and family. If the greeter at Wal-Mart is the person you require validation from, well you have bigger fish to fry than an "assault on Christmas".

    Yeah, do I think it is silly to try and PC the holiday season, of course, but that is because I could give a rats ass what people call the holidays.

    They could say "samtsirhc yppah" and I wouldn't care. My kids will get their idea of Christmas from me and my wife, not KMART and McDonald's.

    People only seem to care about PC stuff anyway when it affects them.
    Last edited by piney; 10-17-2008 at 02:34 PM.

  12. #52
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    [QUOTE=crazyeffinjetsfan;2808566]Just take note this year, as in several of the last Christmas seasons....Pepsi and Coke took Santa and all "Christmas" references off their products last year so as not to "offend" others....Target, Sears, Walmart, etc. say "Happy Holidays" as not to offend others....It's all political correctness bull**** run amok....I don't give a **** who I offend by saying "Merry Christmas"....If you don't like it, get the **** out.[/QUOTE]

    That reminds me of this:

    [IMG]http://s265.photobucket.com/albums/ii212/erbieber/?action=view&current=Retail.gif[/IMG]

    I got a newsflash for you. Most people don't care. I'm jewish and I couldn't care less if you said Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukkah, or start talking about feats of strength.

  13. #53
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2808830]ok, against my better judgement here goes...

    I too feel there is an assault on Christmas, a couple of years ago the kids were not allowed to sing Christmas Carols at the "Winter" concert in my town. It is Happy Holidays now and I find that offensive. Say Happy Hanakuh and Merry Christmas, what is wrong with that? I know the initial post had plenty of assumptions in it and I truly doubt that Obama (should he win) would eliminate a Christmas tree, however i don't think every discussion of the subject should include the idea that all anyone gets upset about over Christmas is the commercialism.

    I don't see what Arabs and Muslims have to do with this subject other than the original poster's unfortunate allusion to what Obama's motivation might be if he "cancelled" Christmas.[/QUOTE]
    jetswin, my issue was not with your view that there is an assault on Christmas. I just felt it wasn't fair to talk about locking the thread if anyone bashed Christmas, when I've seen much more worse things posted in this forum.

    I DO agree that political correctness has gotten out of hand, not just as it pertains to Christmas but in everything. I say MERRY CHRISTMAS and if someone has a problem with it, too bad. If someone told me HAPPY HANUKAH, HAPPY KWANZAA, or HAPPY RAMADAN, it wouldn't faze me at all. All those phrases mean the same thing...HAPPY HOLIDAYS. Anyone on any side of the political spectrum who gets offended by phrases such as the ones mentioned above needs a kick in the ass. I'm sorry your kids had to be subjected to that idiocy, and I hope you gave those people a good piece of your mind. I'm just not sure that the Left wing of this country are the ones responsible for this out of control PCism, but if it is, then it's coming from the extreme fringe. And extremism in any form is bad. If you felt you had to lock the thread b/c someone was offended by MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY HANUKAH or something similar, then I'd agree with you.

  14. #54
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    [QUOTE=JoeyStylez;2808863] If someone told me HAPPY HANUKAH, HAPPY KWANZAA, or HAPPY RAMADAN, it wouldn't faze me at all. [/QUOTE]

    Seriously, if you're standing at Walmart on December 20th and the cashier gives you your change and says "Happy Hanukah!" you wouldn't find that strange?? Because I have never ever heard that, I can't help but think you wouldn't be a bit put off by that.
    If you are at Midnight Mass by all means saying Merry Christmas is appropriate, but I don't believe having clerks who have no idea of someone's religious affiliation wish people a happy holiday instead is any type of assault on anyone's beliefs.

  15. #55
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    [QUOTE=JoeyStylez;2808863]jetswin, my issue was not with your view that there is an assault on Christmas. I just felt it wasn't fair to talk about locking the thread if anyone bashed Christmas, when I've seen much more worse things posted in this forum.

    I DO agree that political correctness has gotten out of hand, not just as it pertains to Christmas but in everything. I say MERRY CHRISTMAS and if someone has a problem with it, too bad. If someone told me HAPPY HANUKAH, HAPPY KWANZAA, or HAPPY RAMADAN, it wouldn't faze me at all. All those phrases mean the same thing...HAPPY HOLIDAYS. Anyone on any side of the political spectrum who gets offended by phrases such as the ones mentioned above needs a kick in the ass. I'm sorry your kids had to be subjected to that idiocy, and I hope you gave those people a good piece of your mind. I'm just not sure that the Left wing of this country are the ones responsible for this out of control PCism, but if it is, then it's coming from the extreme fringe. And extremism in any form is bad. If you felt you had to lock the thread b/c someone was offended by MERRY CHRISTMAS, HAPPY HANUKAH or something similar, then I'd agree with you.[/QUOTE]


    ok, now this is a great post :cool:

    perhaps I got ahead of myself, I just didn't want a certain tone in this thread, and you are correct, it's Merry Christmas on Christmas, Happy Hanakuh on Hanakuh (hopefully I'm not mispelling that) and Happy Ramadam on Ramadam.

    You're are right, it comes from the extremes, ACLU would be my bet, and many in my town raised a stink and now the Holiday Concert celebrates all the appropriate holidays with approprate songs.

    As to the poster who feels the fact that I don't like someone wishing me happy holdays on Christmas makes me the worst offender of all, their efforts have been achieved with you.

  16. #56
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2808880]ok, now this is a great post :cool:

    perhaps I got ahead of myself, I just didn't want a certain tone in this thread, and you are correct, it's Merry Christmas on Christmas, Happy Hanakuh on Hanakuh (hopefully I'm not mispelling that) and Happy Ramadam on Ramadam.

    You're are right, it comes from the extremes, ACLU would be my bet, and many in my town raised a stink and now the Holiday Concert celebrates all the appropriate holidays with approprate songs.

    As to the poster who feels the fact that I don't like someone wishing me happy holdays on Christmas makes me the worst offender of all, their efforts have been achieved with you.[/QUOTE]

    ahhh...I knew that would come across the wrong way...

    I just meant that, as far local businesses go, I think you can't allow that to shape Christmas for you. I mean to say, as far as being the worst offender, it is those people who need others to validate the holiday they celebrate.

    If someone's town decides to change due to pressure from people in the community, then you have to fight fire with fire, and gather your own group advocating leaving the "Holiday Concert" the way it was.

    I do think there is a certain validity to being offended when something is organized by the town and it showcases and emphasizes only one groups faith and/or holiday.

    How is the Jewish community supposed to feel about the Christmas Concert?

    Why, as someone who celebrates Christmas, do that same person need CHristmas to be the dominate theme of the winter?

  17. #57
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    [QUOTE=piney;2808886]
    How is the Jewish community supposed to feel about the Christmas Concert?

    [/QUOTE]

    this situation has been resolved to the satisfaction of everyone thankfully

  18. #58
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2808890]this situation has been resolved to the satisfaction of everyone thankfully[/QUOTE]

    oh, what was the resolution? Just curious....

  19. #59
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    [QUOTE=piney;2808899]oh, what was the resolution? Just curious....[/QUOTE]

    All holidays are celebrated in song...


    ...just so everyone doesn't think I just a grouch I like to offer everyone a

    [IMG]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn193/Muktukjoe/MERRY_NEW_YEAR_2007.jpg[/IMG]

    no hard feelings

  20. #60
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    [QUOTE=RutgersJetFan;2808757]Yep, definitely sounds like he has too much Muslim left in him.

    But hey, let's not confuse the fact that they're just trying to be good parents with the need for radical conservatives to make sh-t up.

    [url]http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0708/12035.html[/url][/QUOTE]

    come on now..

    the very fact that the Obamas dont give their daughters gifts labeled from 'mom and dad' on christmas, and instead label them from 'santa' is just PROOF that he's a radical muslim terrorist puppet for bill ayers and jeremiah wright!

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