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Thread: "Outfitgate" The Great Palin Wardrobe Contoversy Discussion 2008 (Merged x1)

  1. #141
    [QUOTE=BushyTheBeaver;2820897]For that reason, why should buying a boat or a villa in Milan be an illegal use of campaign funds?[/QUOTE]

    Can a boat or a villa help you win an election?

  2. #142
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    Turns out that Sarah Palin's makeup artist was the campaign's [b]highest paid[/b] member in the first half of October (which is all the data we have so far)


    [url]http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/pains-makeup-stylist-fetches-highest-salary-in-2-week-period/[/url]


    Who was the highest paid individual in Senator John McCain’s presidential campaign during the first half of October as it headed down the homestretch?

    Not Randy Scheunemann, Mr. McCain’s chief foreign policy adviser; not Nicolle Wallace, his senior communications staff member. It was Amy Strozzi, who was identified by the Washington Post this week as Gov. Sarah Palin’s traveling makeup artist, according to a new filing with the Federal Election Commission on Thursday night.

    Ms. Strozzi, who was nominated for an Emmy award for her makeup work on the television show “So You Think You Can Dance?”, was paid $22,800 for the first two weeks of October alone, according to the records. The campaign categorized Ms. Strozzi’s payment as “PERSONNEL SVC/EQUIPMENT.”

    The payment on Oct. 10 made Ms. Strozzi the single highest-paid individual in the campaign for that two-week period. (There were more than two dozen companies that got larger payments than Ms. Strozzi). She easily beat out Mr. Scheunemann, who received $12,500 in the first half of October, and Ms. Wallace, who got $12,000.

    In September, Ms. Strozzi was also paid $13,200 for “communications consulting.” But several individuals were paid more by the McCain campaign that month, including Mike DuHaime, the political director, who received $25,000 for “GOTV CONSULTING,” and Mark Salter, one of Mr. McCain’s senior advisers, who got $13,224 in salary.

    There has been much scrutiny this week, of course, over the $150,000 Republican National Committee spent outfitting Ms. Palin in September at high-end department stores like Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus, as well as for makeup services.

    The campaign finance reports filed on Thursday night, which showed the McCain campaign and the R.N.C. had about $84 million left in the bank on Oct. 15, did not immediately appear to show any similar payments in the first half of October.

  3. #143
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    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2820986]Can a boat or a villa help you win an election?[/QUOTE]

    It could if you're a pirate....but alas, Kucinich already dropped out.

  4. #144
    Did anyone watch Hannity's interview of Palin? Palin is a fool to think Hannity will help win this election.

    Palin is quick to point out every flaw of Obama, but has yet to discuss her Troopergate investigation and the real findings.

  5. #145
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    ROFLMAO Holy Sh!t what a bimbo!!!! The campaign documents prove that they paid $150k for the clothing, but Palin insists that she did not accept them and and they aren't even worth $150k, which they obviously are if they paid that much for them!!! Then she says they were bought for the convention, which is different than what her aides said which was that she needed them for the different climates she would be campaigning in, because of the drastic differences between her Alaskan summer wardrobe and fall in the swing states of the lower 48... LOL



    [url]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-sarah-palin-1023,0,6207610.story[/url]

    [B]Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin insisted in an interview with the Tribune on Thursday that she did not accept $150,000 worth of designer clothes from the Republican Party and "that is not who we are."[/B]

    "That whole thing is just, bad!" she said. "Oh, if people only knew how frugal we are.

    [B]"It's kind of painful to be criticized for something when all the facts are not out there and are not reported," said Palin, saying the clothes are not worth $150,000 and were bought for the Republican National Convention[/B]. Still, she has been wearing pricey clothes at campaign events this fall. She said they will be given back, auctioned off or sent to charity. Most of them, she said, haven't even left the belly of her campaign plane.

  6. #146
    She is 2 for 2. Is Constanza her campaign manager? It is not a lie if you believe it.

    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2821101]ROFLMAO Holy Sh!t what a bimbo!!!! The campaign documents prove that they paid $150k for the clothing, but Palin insists that she did not accept them and and they aren't even worth $150k, which they obviously are if they paid that much for them!!! Then she says they were bought for the convention, which is different than what her aides said which was that she needed them for the different climates she would be campaigning in, because of the drastic differences between her Alaskan summer wardrobe and fall in the swing states of the lower 48... LOL



    [url]http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/chi-sarah-palin-1023,0,6207610.story[/url]

    [B]Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin insisted in an interview with the Tribune on Thursday that she did not accept $150,000 worth of designer clothes from the Republican Party and "that is not who we are."[/B]

    "That whole thing is just, bad!" she said. "Oh, if people only knew how frugal we are.

    [B]"It's kind of painful to be criticized for something when all the facts are not out there and are not reported," said Palin, saying the clothes are not worth $150,000 and were bought for the Republican National Convention[/B]. Still, she has been wearing pricey clothes at campaign events this fall. She said they will be given back, auctioned off or sent to charity. Most of them, she said, haven't even left the belly of her campaign plane.[/QUOTE]

  7. #147
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    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2820373]#1 They definitely are 'donating' to charity to try and cover up the embarrassment... I can't believe you or anyone could honestly think otherwise

    #2 regarding the legality of the purchases, I wouldn't be so sure like you seem to be that they are legal. To me it seems semi-shaky ground, at the very least, to be standing on, see 2 USC 439b(2)(b) (the sub-section of Federal Election Campaign regarding prohibited usage of campaign donations):

    [url]http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/2/439a.html[/url]


    § 439a. Use of contributed amounts for certain purposes
    How Current is This?
    (a) Permitted uses
    A contribution accepted by a candidate, and any other donation received by an individual as support for activities of the individual as a holder of Federal office, may be used by the candidate or individual—
    (1) for otherwise authorized expenditures in connection with the campaign for Federal office of the candidate or individual;
    (2) for ordinary and necessary expenses incurred in connection with duties of the individual as a holder of Federal office;
    (3) for contributions to an organization described in section 170 (c) of title 26;
    (4) for transfers, without limitation, to a national, State, or local committee of a political party;
    (5) for donations to State and local candidates subject to the provisions of State law; or
    (6) for any other lawful purpose unless prohibited by subsection (b) of this section.
    [B](b) Prohibited use[/B]
    (1) In general
    A contribution or donation described in subsection (a) of this section shall not be converted by any person to personal use.
    (2) Conversion
    For the purposes of paragraph (1), [B]a contribution or donation shall be considered to be converted to personal use if the contribution or amount is used to fulfill any commitment, obligation, or expense of a person that would exist irrespective of the candidate’s election campaign or individual’s duties as a holder of Federal office, including—[/B]
    (A) a home mortgage, rent, or utility payment;
    [B](B) a clothing purchase;[/B]
    (C) a noncampaign-related automobile expense;
    (D) a country club membership;
    (E) a vacation or other noncampaign-related trip;
    (F) a household food item;
    (G) a tuition payment;
    (H) admission to a sporting event, concert, theater, or other form of entertainment not associated with an election campaign; and
    (I) dues, fees, and other payments to a health club or recreational facility.[/QUOTE]




    Come on WF, where are you? How come you stopped posting in this thread after I brought up some facts about the laws governing federal election campaigns? :D

  8. #148
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    [QUOTE=cr726;2821213]She is 2 for 2. Is Constanza her campaign manager? It is not a lie if you believe it.[/QUOTE]

    That's an insult to George! :D


    Now if she were running for VP of Vandalay Industries maybe! ;)

  9. #149
    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2820390]did you happen to see my post directly above yours?!? perhaps it wasn't "all above board"[/QUOTE]

    Nothing is all above aboard when it comes to politics.

  10. #150
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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2821237]Nothing is all above aboard when it comes to politics.[/QUOTE]

    well you were the one that claimed it was "all above board", not me... so take that up with yourself! :D

  11. #151
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    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2820986]Can a boat or a villa help you win an election?[/QUOTE]

    Maybe an Ark...

  12. #152
    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2821220]Come on WF, where are you? How come you stopped posting in this thread after I brought up some facts about the laws governing federal election campaigns? :D[/QUOTE]

    It's called sleep and work Tanny. Sorry.:mad:

    I disagree that clothes purchased for Campaign use (appearance) and then donated/auctioned for charity after the campaign is over, would fall under your claim of illegallity.

    But please, feel free to sue them, and if you win....I'll be happy to admit you were right after all.

    As I said earlier, I am tired of defending someone I don't support having done something I don't think they should have done. But there is a difference between that, and being outright illegal, which I do not believe this was.

    [QUOTE]For the purposes of paragraph (1), a contribution or donation shall be considered to be converted to personal use if the contribution or amount is used to fulfill any commitment, obligation, or expense of a person that would exist irrespective of the candidate’s election campaign or individual’s duties as a holder of Federal office, including—
    (A) a home mortgage, rent, or utility payment;
    (B) a clothing purchase;
    (C) a noncampaign-related automobile expense;
    (D) a country club membership;
    [B][U](E) a vacation or other noncampaign-related trip;[/U][/B]
    (F) a household food item;
    (G) a tuition payment;
    (H) admission to a sporting event, concert, theater, or other form of entertainment not associated with an election campaign; and
    (I) dues, fees, and other payments to a health club or recreational facility.[/QUOTE]

    I'm curious, is Obama flying to see his Grandmother on normal airlines with tickets he purchased himself? Or on his Campaign Plane?

    How many staffers are with him there? How many meals is he eating there? Did campaign money go to pay for any of it?

    I don't know. Neither do you. frankly, at this late date I don;'t care, outside of the humorous knowledge that you will claim you know that no campaign money was spent on this trip whatsoever, no volunteer time used, etc, etc, etc, and that you know, without a doubt, that Obama has never spent a penny of campaign money that wasn;t absolutely vital....like his greek columsn and laser ligth show.
    Last edited by Warfish; 10-24-2008 at 11:32 AM.

  13. #153
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2821424]It's called sleep and work Tanny. Sorry.:mad:

    I disagree that clothes purchased for Campaign use (appearance) and then donated/auctioned for charity after the campaign is over, would fall under your claim of illegallity.

    But please, feel free to sue them, and if you win....I'll be happy to admit you were right after all.

    As I said earlier, I am tired of defending someone I don't support having done something I don't think they should have done. But there is a difference between that, and being outright illegal, which I do not believe this was.



    I'm curious, is Obama flying to see his Grandmother on normal airlines with tickets he purchased himself? Or on his Campaign Plane?

    How many staffers are with him there? How many meals is he eating there? Did campaign money go to pay for any of it?

    I don't know. Neither do you. frankly, at this late date I don;'t care, outside of the humorous knowledge that you will claim you know that no campaign money was spent on this trip whatsoever, no volunteer time used, etc, etc, etc, and that you know, without a doubt, that Obama has never spent a penny of campaign money that wasn;t absolutely vital....like his greek columsn and laser ligth show.[/QUOTE]


    To me:

    It appears B is violated by McCain/Palin regardless of the post-controversy decision to give the items up for charity.

    It appears E is violated by Obama unless he makes a campaign appearance in Hawaii on the same trip. I know he stopped in NV for a campaign appearance, but I do not know his schedule while in Hawaii.




    how can you disagree with that violation of B? it seems rather clear to me that clothing is automatically converted to Personal Use, which is then a violation of the law when federal election campaign funds were used on it. I'm just wondering what part of it is vague enough for you to think it is legal



    that being said, personally I don't necessarily think it should be illegal. But then again I disagree with a LOT of laws, especially when there is no victim (prostitution, drugs, consensual same-sex sexual contact, etc)

  14. #154
    [QUOTE=Tanginius;2821461]To me:

    It appears B is violated by McCain/Palin regardless of the post-controversy decision to give the items up for charity.

    It appears E is violated by Obama unless he makes a campaign appearance in Hawaii on the same trip. I know he stopped in NV for a campaign appearance, but I do not know his schedule while in Hawaii.




    how can you disagree with that violation of B? it seems rather clear to me that clothing is automatically converted to Personal Use, which is then a violation of the law when federal election campaign funds were used on it. I'm just wondering what part of it is vague enough for you to think it is legal

    that being said, personally I don't necessarily think it should be illegal. But then again I disagree with a LOT of laws, especially when there is no victim (prostitution, drugs, consensual same-sex sexual contact, etc)[/QUOTE]

    Lol, so a "Campaign Stop" in Democrat Dominated Not-Remotely-Contested Hawaii clears Obama, eh? Convenient, basicly means a candidate can loophole himself wherever he wants, as long as he meets one voter whilst there.

    Cute little loophole.

    As for why I think the clothes are legal, I do not think designer clothers are something that is "a expense of a person that would exist irrespective of the candidate’s election campaign or individual’s duties as a holder of Federal office". If she were not running for VP, she would not buy needed/buying designer clothes. Hence the expense exists [U]only[/U] respective of her needs as part of the campaign to present a certain appearance.

    Regular working clothes = yes, illegal
    Special Campaign Use appearance/Image Clothes = no, cost of presenting a certain appearance in order to be elected VP, a cost that would not exist otherwise.

    For me, it's that simple. Like I said, I have no desire to continue defending her here, so if you think it's illegal, best of luck in court.

  15. #155
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    There's more!

    [url]http://www.newsweek.com/id/167581[/url]

    NEWSWEEK has also learned that Palin's shopping spree at high-end department stores was more extensive than previously reported. While publicly supporting Palin, McCain's top advisers privately fumed at what they regarded as her outrageous profligacy. One senior aide said that Nicolle Wallace had told Palin to buy three suits for the convention and hire a stylist. But instead, the vice presidential nominee began buying for herself and her family—clothes and accessories from top stores such as Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus. According to two knowledgeable sources, a vast majority of the clothes were bought by a wealthy donor, who was shocked when he got the bill. Palin also used low-level staffers to buy some of the clothes on their credit cards. The McCain campaign found out last week when the aides sought reimbursement. One aide estimated that she spent "tens of thousands" more than the reported $150,000, and that $20,000 to $40,000 went to buy clothes for her husband. Some articles of clothing have apparently been lost. An angry aide characterized the shopping spree as "Wasilla hillbillies looting Neiman Marcus from coast to coast," and said the truth will eventually come out when the Republican Party audits its books.

    A Palin aide said: "Governor Palin was not directing staffers to put anything on their personal credit cards, and anything that staffers put on their credit cards has been reimbursed, like an expense. Nasty and false accusations following a defeat say more about the person who made them than they do about Governor Palin."

    McCain himself rarely spoke to Palin during the campaign, and aides kept him in the dark about the details of her spending on clothes because they were sure he would be offended. Palin asked to speak along with McCain at his Arizona concession speech Tuesday night, but campaign strategist Steve Schmidt vetoed the request.

    ...


    also semi-clothing related and from the same article:

    At the GOP convention in St. Paul, Palin was completely unfazed by the boys' club fraternity she had just joined. One night, Steve Schmidt and Mark Salter went to her hotel room to brief her. After a minute, Palin sailed into the room wearing nothing but a towel, with another on her wet hair. She told them to chat with her laconic husband, Todd. "I'll be just a minute," she said.

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