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Thread: Jeter worst in majors?

  1. #1
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    Jeter worst in majors?

    Saw this in the post. Long time Yank fan here.

    I've watched Jeter the last few years and I cant help but get the nagging feeling he needs a change of scenery and the Yanks need a new direction.

    I loved him here and have always been an apologist when digs on his lack of range came up.

    Intangibles! lol

    He has been a good soldier here, but I can see him being re-born elsewhere, while his body is still healthy, after being immersed in the Yankee machine his whole career and the glow of championships and old friendships fading into the rear-view mirror. He still touches .300 though his RBI's are off.....

    "Mr. Torre" is gone, the old stadium is history and it is obvious the Yanks propensity to field a team of mercenaries is not working.

    Should he consider retiring as a Yankee?

    I thought this article would be an interesting launching point to a discussion on his future here.

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    'WORST' FIELDER IN MAJORS

    By JUSTIN TERRANOVA

    November 4, 2008 --

    A group that tracks every ball hit in the majors says Derek Jeter is the worst fielder in baseball.

    Stats guru Bill James, author of the "Baseball Abstract," and a panel of nine other voters, ranked Jeter 22nd among all major-league shortstops, with one calling Jeter "the least effective defensive player in the major leagues, at any position."

    Jeter received one 10th-place vote in balloting for the 2008 Fielding Bible Awards, announced yesterday. One panel member comes from Baseball Info Solutions (BIS), a group that ... well, just say they do their research.

    "They watched film of every major-league game, and had recorded every ball off the bat by the direction in which it was hit [the vector], the type of hit [groundball, flyball, line-drive, popup, etc.] and by how hard the ball was hit [softly hit, medium, hard hit]," according to James.

    In an earlier article that appears on James' Fielding Bible Web site, BIS ripped Jeter.

    "They had analyzed the outcomes to determine who was best at turning hit balls into outs," James wrote. "One of their conclusions was that Jeter was probably the least effective defensive player in the major leagues, at any position."

    On this year's list, Mets hater and World Series champion Jimmy Rollins topped the list of shortstops, followed by the Brewers' J.J. Hardy, the Braves' Yunel Escobar, the Angels' Erick Aybar, the Pirates' Jack Wilson, the White Sox' Orlando Cabrera, the Cardinals' Cesar Iztruis, the Rockies' Troy Tulowitzki, the Giants' Omar Vizquel and the Mets' Jose Reyes.

    With the exception of Vizquel, who has 11 Gold Gloves, the rest of the group has four combined - one more than the apparently defensively challenged Jeter.

    Jeter is no stranger to statistically questioned fielding. A Penn University study released in February found Jeter to be the worst shortstop in the majors.

    "Maybe it was a computer glitch," Jeter told The Post during spring training. "Every [shortstop] doesn't stay in the same spot, every one doesn't have the same pitching. Every one doesn't have the same hitters running. It's impossible to do that."

    Carlos Beltran was the only New York player to take the top spot at his position, finishing tops among center fielders. He can put this nerdy prize next to his two actual Gold Gloves.

    Major League Baseball will announce this year's Gold Glove winners this month.

    The complete Fielding Bible award winners: P, Kenny Rogers, Detroit; C, Yadier Molina, Cardinals; 1B, Albert Pujols, Cardinals; 2B, Brandon Phillips, Reds; 3B, Adrian Beltre, Mariners; SS, Jimmy Rollins, Phillies; LF, Carl Crawford, Rays; CF, Carlos Beltran, Mets; RF Franklin Gutierrez, Indians.

    justin.terranova@nypost.com

  2. #2
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    The plan is to eventually move Jeter to 1B.

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    Anyone who's watched for the past few years has known that Jeter is not a good shortstop.

    But it is crazy to suggest that he needs to move on. He's the face of this franchise. Who would be the new one? ARod? Please.

    Jeter will be playing 1st base soon enough.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Guido Monzino View Post
    Anyone who's watched for the past few years has known that Jeter is not a good shortstop.

    But it is crazy to suggest that he needs to move on. He's the face of this franchise. Who would be the new one? ARod? Please.

    Jeter will be playing 1st base soon enough.
    IT would actually bother me alot to see Jeter in any uniform but pinstripes. Move him to first and ship AROD to, well anywhere but the bronx

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    I know Jeter is a fan favorite, but would fans really be okay with Jeter at 1st, if he's giving you a .771 OPS (What he did last year) at an Offensive-Oriented Position? That's essentially Doug Mientkiewicz level Offense, and it's not like he'd bring Mientkiewicz's glove with him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    I know Jeter is a fan favorite, but would fans really be okay with Jeter at 1st, if he's giving you a .771 OPS (What he did last year) at an Offensive-Oriented Position? That's essentially Doug Mientkiewicz level Offense, and it's not like he'd bring Mientkiewicz's glove with him.
    I think if your able to make up production from a defense oriented position it would be fine

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    I always thought Jeter's natural transition was outfield, most likely center field. It would be like a Robin Yount transition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PETER PAT View Post
    I always thought Jeter's natural transition was outfield, most likely center field. It would be like a Robin Yount transition.
    Maybe a corner outfielder, but I don't see him in center

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    Everyone knows he is below average fielder, I don't know about worst though...

    and his stats last year a little deceiving, he really started to hit in the second half...

    I think he might be a RF in the future or even 2nd or 1st...

    I don't think you will see him gone anytime soon..

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    Quote Originally Posted by PETER PAT View Post
    I always thought Jeter's natural transition was outfield, most likely center field. It would be like a Robin Yount transition.
    I read about this somewhere. The idea is that Jeter moves to Centerfield while the Yankees sign another Shortstop. Jeter would certainly be an offensive upgrade over Melky/Gardner. Not a bad idea at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VincenzoTestaverde View Post
    I read about this somewhere. The idea is that Jeter moves to Centerfield while the Yankees sign another Shortstop. Jeter would certainly be an offensive upgrade over Melky/Gardner. Not a bad idea at all.
    I think that was a Francessa fantasy, I don't see why Jeter would play an average or better Centerfield. Maybe a Corner though, but it's the same argument I just made with an Offensive-Oriented position then.
    Last edited by Ven0m; 11-04-2008 at 05:44 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    I think that was a Francessa fantasy, I don't see why Jeter would play an above-average Centerfield. Maybe a Corner though, but it's the same argument I just made with an Offensive-Oriented position then.
    Jeter would probably be a defensive liability in Center but I'll take a defensive liability in Centerfield over a defensive liability at Shortstop any day of the week especially when the supposed ace of our staff is a ground ball pitcher.
    Last edited by VincenzoTestaverde; 11-04-2008 at 05:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VincenzoTestaverde View Post
    Jeter would probably be a liability in Center but I'll take a defensive liability in Centerfield over a defensive liability at Shortstop any day of the week especially when the supposed ace of our staff is a ground ball pitcher.
    I'm not sure that would really be any better, in fact, probably worse.....just means more fly balls would fall in instead of ground balls. Difference being a well placed grounder is still a single, a well placed fly ball is often a double or in some cases a triple. Wang is only one pitcher, it would be good for him, but bad for Hughes, Kennedy, ect. Really any pitcher with an above-average FB rate.
    Last edited by Ven0m; 11-04-2008 at 05:53 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    I'm not sure that would really be any better, in fact, probably worse.....just means more fly balls would fall in instead of ground balls. Difference being a well placed grounder is still a single, a well placed fly ball is often a double or in some cases a triple. Wang is only one pitcher, it would be good for him, but bad for Hughes, Kennedy, ect. Really any pitcher with an above-average FB rate.
    You could have 8 gold glovers playing behind Kennedy -he's still getting lit up no matter what. Hughes - jury is still out on him.

    Jeter at this point isn't a worse defensive CF than Johnny Damon. No way is Jeter playing 1B. Even if the Yankees don't get Texeira, you still have Matsui, Posada and Damon all needing a spot on the field even worse than Jeter and its probably 1B or DH.

    Jeter gives the Yankees way more offense than Melky or Gardner. Yankees could sign a Shortstop or sign a third baseman and move A-Rod back to Shortstop. All of a sudden the Yankees have a deeper hitting lineup and a much better defensive infield.

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    I could see Jeter becoming a corner outfielder somewhere down the road, not a CF'er or 1B. I wouldn't like his type of offensive production as a 1B or defense for that matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VincenzoTestaverde View Post
    You could have 8 gold glovers playing behind Kennedy -he's still getting lit up no matter what. Hughes - jury is still out on him.
    They were just two starters under contract I could come up with that had above-average FB rates. Aceves, Marte, Ramirez, Robertson, and Veras would all be really hurt as well by shoddy CF Defense.

    Jeter at this point isn't a worse defensive CF than Johnny Damon. No way is Jeter playing 1B. Even if the Yankees don't get Texeira, you still have Matsui, Posada and Damon all needing a spot on the field even worse than Jeter and its probably 1B or DH.
    Damon still has excellent range, he just has a pop-gun throwing arm. Costs you a few extra bases a year, but I would expect Jeter's Defense in Center to hurt more. Again, Damon's poor arm costs you a base, Jeter's lack of range would be costing you in some cases Doubles and Triples.

    Jeter gives the Yankees way more offense than Melky or Gardner. Yankees could sign a Shortstop or sign a third baseman and move A-Rod back to Shortstop. All of a sudden the Yankees have a deeper hitting lineup and a much better defensive infield.
    Yes, and a Poor Defensive Outfield in the process. Perhaps the rewards outweigh the risks, but it's hardly an ideal solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VincenzoTestaverde View Post

    Jeter at this point isn't a worse defensive CF than Johnny Damon. No way is Jeter playing 1B.
    I don't know how you can say that considering he's never played there at all. Not everyone can make that kind of transition.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    I know Jeter is a fan favorite, but would fans really be okay with Jeter at 1st, if he's giving you a .771 OPS (What he did last year) at an Offensive-Oriented Position? That's essentially Doug Mientkiewicz level Offense, and it's not like he'd bring Mientkiewicz's glove with him.
    I'll bet you any amount of money that he won't have a .771 OPS next year. It's no secret that playing through the hand injury after Daniel Cabrera hit him on the hand killed his season offensively. He's good for an .830+ OPS for the next few years IMO.

    Saying that, I don't want him to play 1B. He should have been moved to CF about 4 years ago, and at this stage, I'd love to sign Furcal and move Jeter to LF (and trade Damon).

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post

    Damon still has excellent range, he just has a pop-gun throwing arm. Costs you a few extra bases a year, but I would expect Jeter's Defense in Center to hurt more. Again, Damon's poor arm costs you a base, Jeter's lack of range would be costing you in some cases Doubles and Triples.
    I don't disagree that Jeter in CF right now would not be a good situation, but I'll add that Damon no longer has "excellent" range. For a CFer, I'd argue his range is below average. For a LFer, he has very good range.

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