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Thread: Two major industries likely to be abolished today

  1. #61
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    [QUOTE=isired;2841590]The thing that makes all of that hard to answer is that slaves were not chosen at random - they were usually hand-picked as the best available, from what I know. So you have to wonder how different Africa, or parts of Africa, might be had the slave trade not existed.

    Either way, I think the answer to the first premise is decidedly "no" - those that would have been repatriated were not raised in Africa and would have had no 'home' there, they would have been at a disadvantage I would think.

    For the second premise, I'd guess that yes, as a whole, the lives of today's American Blacks would be better if slavery never existed. On pure numbers, I don't think the overriding experience of the American Black is a positive one. I may be geographically skewed (as an inner-city resident), but that's my guess.[/QUOTE]

    I would definitely agree with you on both counts. Its pretty dubious to try and argue that slavery, in the end, was a positive, which is essentially what question #2 does, just in cloaked terms. If today's African-Americans are better off, and they are here because of slavery, then slavery, in the end, was a net positive. Of course, as you point out isired, its not like that conditional is even true...

    Besides, look at the results of Western colonization in post-colonial Africa. The idea that the continent is somehow "better off" from the western influence is frankly laughable...

  2. #62
    [QUOTE=shakin318;2840866]shameless sexist virtual raping of Sarah Palin, all done gleefully by the liberal, tolerant, progressive left[/QUOTE]
    Is this the type of post that earned you the esteemed appointment of moderator on this site? :zzz:
    Last edited by Queens Jet Fan; 11-04-2008 at 02:39 PM.

  3. #63
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    [QUOTE=shakin318;2840866]When the likely happens and Obama wins the presidency, the humongous industry of "racism" that has grossly lined the pockets of wonderful human beings such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will no longer hold water. Millions of Americans will now have to look in the mirror and finally blame themselves for their personal shortcomings, daily travails and human foibles that befall every one of us, no matter what color our skin. Personal accountability -- what a concept.

    Industry #2 to bite the bullet will be feminism. Any "women's rights" leader who attempts to address the country with a straight face after the shameless sexist virtual raping of Sarah Palin, all done gleefully by the liberal, tolerant, progressive left, will be a transparent joke.

    Now that that's out of the way, no matter who you choose, get off your ass today and exercise your right to vote![/QUOTE]

    Be careful, I said the same thing in a post about how "Racism" is now DONE and got crucified here. Either way, you are entirely correct.

  4. #64
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    [QUOTE=CanadaSteve;2841479]A debt to whom? Why do people think they are owned anything? And this is not just about black/white racial issues?

    I'm Scottish by heritage. Do the English owe me anything for the abuse that took place 400 odd years ago?

    Is the Jewish community owed anything for the persecution over 2000 years ago?

    In Canada, the big one is residential schooling of Native Indians and land claim rights....are those who were displaced from their homes and put in residential schools owed anything? Absolutely...the ones that are still alive today. Are their kids, grandchildren, great-grandchildren owed anything....NO.

    Land claim rights....there is a dispute about land claims with native Indians, and who actually "owns" what...should it be settled? Yes, but that doesn't mean three hundred years from now a native Indian ought to get something for the struggles faced by native Indians due to land-claim disputes centuries prior.

    IF black people are being sold in the modern era to white slaves, then the white slaves need to be punished and those who are being traded need to be helped.
    I don't think the English are still taking the wives of Scots man so they can have sex with them and "breed" out the Scottish. If so, those that it happens to deserve support, help, remuneration etc...

    IF this conversation is going where it has gone in the past, then there is a serious flaw somewhere in the thinking...[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, you've effectively trivialized the argument by bringing in historical events that are a complete contextual mismatch from the one we've discussed in this thread :D.

    Thanks Steve.

  5. #65
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    [QUOTE=TerryBadway;2841275]Absolutely....You, me and everybody else.[/QUOTE]

    Not me.

  6. #66
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    [QUOTE=freestater;2841720]Not me.[/QUOTE]

    OK.

  7. #67
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2841505]I'm curious.

    -Would the lives of today's American Blacks be better if the day Slavery were abolished, the U.S. Government repatriated every single person of African Decent back to Africa, and paid them some amount of money for the work/suffering/loss of life?

    -Would the lives of today's American Blacks be better if Slavery had never occured and all of them had stayed and lived their lives in Africa, with whatever future such a historical change would have led to?

    Intellectual masturbation of course, hypotheticals always are, but it's one aspect of the "I owe you" question that rarely gets pondered. For all the evil of Slavery and racism, are you better off today than your counterparts in Africa? Would you trade away all that you have today to have had slavery never happen, and to instead be a citizen/resident of whatever african nation your specific family came from?[/QUOTE]

    War, I think Isired answered this better than I ever could.

  8. #68
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    [QUOTE=TerryBadway;2841723]OK.[/QUOTE]

    Well, all right then. :D

  9. #69
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    [QUOTE=TerryBadway;2840977]Shakin...Those are the great questions. And those questions are at the heart of the battle for not only programs (affirmative action, diversity programing, social investment), but the answers to those questions are the primary drivers for the resentment between the races. And we may agree on some of these, and strongly disagree on others, but I can accept (to an extent) that other side of the argument.

    The thing is.....We first have to answer, was/is there a debt owed?

    My answer to that would be, Certainly.[/QUOTE]

    Just out of curiousity, but are Blacks the only group that is owed a "debt" in this country? A little known historical FACT in this country is that when this country was first being settled by the English, an estimated 500,000 Irish were taken here against their will and forced into various labor. I'm not talking about "Indentured Servitude", but out and out slave labor. The British Government has actually recognized this fact, and the Irish Government and various historians has estimated that the actual number of Irish imported to the Colonies may be higher.

    After the Revolutionary War, when both Irish AND Blacks played large roles as Soldiers, the Congress of the U.S. and such notable people as Benjamin Franklin wanted to BAN Immigrants from Ireland...

    During the 1840s-1860s after another period of active Genocide against the Irish by the English (The most notorious being Oliver Cromwells campaign of Genocide against Ireland), the Potato Famine forced millions of Irish to emigrate to the US, where they were refused jobs of any kind, scorned, discriminated against, and looked at as ignorant savages. Many who emigrated during the Civil War war taken by force directly off the ships they arrived in, handed a uniform and musket, and sent to the front lines of the War for both sides. And after the war, the ONLY jobs available to the Irish were the worst, most dangerous, and physically demanding jobs of the day...think Firefighting without protective gear, women in unventilated sweatshops, building the railroads, etc.

    Sure, since then the Irish have settled into society, become educated and politically active, and their descendants make up a large number of the population. That has happened not because anyone GAVE them anything, but through hard work and determination.

    Today, immigrants from SE Asia, Pakistan, India, Haiti, Latin America, and other dirt poor places around the globe are able to come here barely speaking English and without two nickels to rub together, and within a couple of generations become firmly middle class, many with their own small buisness.

    None of these other groups allow their "Past" to be a factor in their success, and none received preferential treatment because of their past. They were able to find success on their own.

    So I ask, is the Black community the only community that is owed some type of debt because of the past? WHo is to determine who gets that payment, and who is responsible to pay? The past is over. A black man is on the verge of being elected President of the United States. Its time for groups to stop looking for some Debts to be repaid and move on with life, as so many others have.

  10. #70
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    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;2841815]Just out of curiousity, but are Blacks the only group that is owed a "debt" in this country[/QUOTE]

    No.

  11. #71
    The other industry I would really worry about is plumbing.

  12. #72
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    [QUOTE=Jet_Engine1;2841715]Be careful, I said the same thing in a post about how "Racism" is now DONE and got crucified here. Either way, you are entirely correct.[/QUOTE]

    that about as accurate as the guy who says that he's not racist because he talks to a black guy that he works with.....

    come on dude, if BO wins it does not mean the country is now not racist or doesnt have racist people still in it on either side of the fence anymore than saying there is no anti-white sentiment because we've had 100 white presidents

  13. #73
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    [QUOTE=Mean Bro Green;2841849]that about as accurate as the guy who says that he's not racist because he talks to a black guy that he works with.....

    come on dude, if BO wins it does not mean the country is now not racist or doesnt have racist people still in it on either side of the fence anymore than saying there is no anti-white sentiment because we've had 100 white presidents[/QUOTE]

    A crux of the "racism" argument is that the black man is prevented from getting ahead.

    We're in the process of electing one to the most powerful position in the world.

    We don't need 9,000-word posts that obfuscate the fact that Obama's election blows that theory out of the water. Which brings me back to one of my original points -- that there's a large number of black Americans out there who may have to now rethink blaming whitey for the fact that they're in whatever station in life they happen to be in, and start taking stock in themselves personally.

  14. #74
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    [QUOTE=shakin318;2841902]A crux of the "racism" argument is that the black man is prevented from getting ahead.

    We're in the process of electing one to the most powerful position in the world.

    We don't need 9,000-word posts that obfuscate the fact that Obama's election blows that theory out of the water. Which brings me back to one of my original points -- that there's a large number of black Americans out there who may have to now rethink blaming whitey for the fact that they're in whatever station in life they happen to be in, and start taking stock in themselves personally.[/QUOTE]

    I see a grain of truth in what you said, symbolically it is huge for all Americans not just blacks

    however, BO is just about the least black person you could have and make no mistake that that has alot to do with where he is or about to be, he's light skinned, only half black and has no roots in what I would call real American culture having spent much of his life in Hawaii and overseas

    so to now assume that we have made it past our roots in divisive racial issues is a bit of a jump in my book. BO has already given speeches about blacks in particular standing up and taking responsibility he did this on father's day and it was a magnificent speech. I think that if you want or expect this mentality to be a thing of the past then BO can help us get there by his leadership and actions while in office but saying that by simply electing him means all ills are cured than you're buggin out as we say in the hood. I think its certainly a great step and I also think that the unelected leaders of the black community will hopefully go away as well (jackson and sharpton) but remember that BO is the leader of us all not of the black segment or white segment of our country

    it is certainly historic if he wins and I think that you're right in saying its a step towards ending the BS issues we have but certainly no where near ending them upon his being sworn in. God forbid if something happens to him in office, this country will never get over it, i swear

  15. #75
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    [QUOTE=nuu faaola;2840944]Agreed that an Obama election is a major blow to identity politics and racial; grievance politics in general. He has essentially repudiated both. And Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson are now basically out of business as the self-appointed "leaders" of the black community. I think we can all agree that's a good thing.

    As far as Palin goes, the most sexist thing about her candidacy was her selection, as far as I'm concerned. It screamed: "Women are so stupid they'll vote for any woman, for no other reason than that she's a woman."

    I don't believe any of the criticism she received was particularly sexist. The fact is, she had astonishingly little knowledge of national issues and was roughed up because of that. If Barack Obama didn't know what the Bush doctrine was, or couldn't offer a coherent explanation about the financial crisis, or cited the proximity of his state to Canada as a national-security credential, he, too, would have been mocked. She was the worst veep pick in history.[/QUOTE]

    spot on.

    this thread could had been locked after this post.

  16. #76
    [QUOTE=shakin318;2841902]A crux of the "racism" argument is that the black man is prevented from getting ahead.

    We're in the process of electing one to the most powerful position in the world.

    We don't need 9,000-word posts that obfuscate the fact that Obama's election blows that theory out of the water.

    Which brings me back to one of my original points -- that there's a large number of black Americans out there who may have to now rethink blaming whitey for the fact that they're in whatever station in life they happen to be in, and start taking stock in themselves personally.[/QUOTE]


    Its not just about black. I'm a latino and
    Hey I accept my shortfalls and my poor decisions in my youth that led me to incarceration.

    So when you say "Millions of Americans will now have to look in the mirror and finally blame themselves", please dont give me that bull$hit that you mean EVERYONE , not just colored folk.

    You are talking directly at us, homeboy. Who the fu(k are you kidding?
    Why bring up Sharpton and Jackson in the first place and follow it up with that statement?

    I have paid my dues for my mistakes, not all of us minorities fall under the "woe is me" banner. And if you think that ALL of what Sharpton and Jackson stand for is a giant huge JOKE, you are wrong.

    So remember this analogy if Obama is elected.....

    A black rapper cannot go "Platinum" if only the minorities are buying his product. Same applies to this Election.


    And for the record I never have blamed "whitey" personally, but have blamed their stupid fu(king laws and legislations that assist in helping escort more minorities into prisons, while lets face it "white" executives get away with stealing and cheating.

    Yes some of them go to jail..... fu(king plush facilities compared to where the rest of the population go.

  17. #77
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    [QUOTE=RussianGreen;2841847]The other industry I would really worry about is plumbing.[/QUOTE]

    ...and hookers. Gotta give the love to the hookers.

  18. #78
    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2840889]Ah, the bitter have come to drink.... :rolleyes:

    Racism is alive and well. Doing better than the auto industry.

    Sarah Palin has only two people to blame for her debacle of arrogance, stupidity, and shallowness -- Sarah Palin and John McCain. I'm embarrassed for you that you so gullibly swallowed the cheap sell.[/QUOTE]

    How can you say that Palin was a cheap sell and not say the same thing about Obama? Both are clearly packaged for the public.

    One of the things I respect about Obama is that (I feel) he truly believes that the ideas like redistributing wealth and other progressive/liberal actions will benefit the country. Of course, I disagree. Clinton, other hand I feel, was never the idealist that BO is. I think that truly deserves respect.

    Palin, too, lives out her beliefs in her politics. I find that admirable just the same as I do in Obama. I don;t think anyone can argue that Palin is pretty much "What You See Is What You Get."

    Anytime anyone has the character to be as he or she is and what is believed, is imo, never shallow, not stupid, nor arrogant. It is very respectable. To not recognize such is, I think it is pretty easy to argue, shallow and intolerant.

  19. #79
    [QUOTE=shakin318;2841141]How many blacks will vote for Obama simply because he is black? (If your answer isn't at least 7 figures, you're simply disingenuous) Is it okay for them to vote strictly on skin color? If so, why would it not be okay to vote for McCain because he is white? Please explain.

    As for the idiot who referred to him as "that black boy," his name was Jimmy Carter.[/QUOTE]

    Lets not talk about how many blacks will vote for Obama.

    Lets just ignore that :yes:

  20. #80
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    "No Irish need apply"

    Sorry but I think I am good on this one.

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