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Thread: Two major industries likely to be abolished today

  1. #21
    [QUOTE=parafly;2841083]False. Try again.[/QUOTE]

    Feel free to explain how I "owe" something then Para.

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2841059]Well, thats the rub isn't it?

    For some, the way to do that is reverse racism. For some, it's legislating equallity of opportunity and equallity of funding for existing programs (like education). For some, it's something else.

    For me, racism is wrong, regardless of the reason. When you penalize one race (in the law) for the benefit of another, thats racism.

    Trust me Terry, I see and get your side (some of the best discssions I've ever had in my life were back in highs school with one specific black friend of mine, priceless times and discussions I would never trade for anything). I understand your point of view, I just think there are better ways to reach our goals than racial revenge, and the bitterness that it causes which is more counterproductive than productive.[/QUOTE]

    Hey man.....For years we've vehemently disagreed about this issue, but as always, your opinion is respected by me. I think racial revenge is a very harsh way of viewing this, and it muddles the efforts needed to push towards equality (with education in particular).

    You are dead wrong on the comment you made about the people who suffered being dead. My mom grew up in Weirton, WV and has real stories about injustice and suffering, and there are millions alive just like her.
    Last edited by TerryBadway; 11-04-2008 at 11:06 AM.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2841088]Feel free to explain how I "owe" something then Para.[/QUOTE]

    It has nothing to do with you owing something or not. It has to do with your notion that all who suffered or caused suffering are dead. There are plenty of people still alive who lived through segregation.

  4. #24
    [QUOTE=Warfish;2841059]Well, thats the rub isn't it?

    For some, the way to do that is reverse racism. For some, it's legislating equallity of opportunity and equallity of funding for existing programs (like education). For some, it's something else.

    For me, racism is wrong, regardless of the reason. When you penalize one race (in the law) for the benefit of another, thats racism.

    Trust me Terry, I see and get your side (some of the best discssions I've ever had in my life were back in highs school with one specific black friend of mine, priceless times and discussions I would never trade for anything). I understand your point of view, I just think there are better ways to reach our goals than racial revenge, and the bitterness that it causes which is more counterproductive than productive.[/QUOTE]

    Being white and fairly privileged I tend to agree with you in general principle here, but racism is and likely will always be a social fact, and thus something we need to confront in one way or another. Lumping everybody together semantically and legally does not undo the realities of skin. A study called Colormute by a woman named Micah Pollock directly addresses this question.

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=parafly;2841103]It has nothing to do with you owing something or not. It has to do with your notion that all who suffered or caused suffering are dead. There are plenty of people still alive who lived through segregation.[/QUOTE]

    I bet you a good percentage of Rev. Wright's church lived through some really harsh times. "Those damned racists" :eek:

  6. #26
    [QUOTE]Industry #2 to bite the bullet will be feminism. Any "women's rights" leader who attempts to address the country with a straight face after the shameless sexist virtual raping of Sarah Palin, all done gleefully by the liberal, tolerant, progressive left, will be a transparent joke.[/QUOTE]

    :D:D:D

    i raped someone. me and some quebeckers, we did it.

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=shakin318;2840866]When the likely happens and Obama wins the presidency, the humongous industry of "racism" that has grossly lined the pockets of wonderful human beings such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will no longer hold water. Millions of Americans will now have to look in the mirror and finally blame themselves for their personal shortcomings, daily travails and human foibles that befall every one of us, no matter what color our skin. Personal accountability -- what a concept.

    Industry #2 to bite the bullet will be feminism. Any "women's rights" leader who attempts to address the country with a straight face after the shameless sexist virtual raping of Sarah Palin, all done gleefully by the liberal, tolerant, progressive left, will be a transparent joke.

    Now that that's out of the way, no matter who you choose, get off your ass today and exercise your right to vote![/QUOTE]

    I'm just excited that after 30+ years I can finally say, as a white guy, that "The Man is holding me back" :D :P

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=shakin318;2840899]I'm not bitter in the least. With the exception of slight fluctuations in my paycheck, my life has hummed along rather nicely no matter which party has been in power.

    Obama winning will expose a lot about this country -- exposing much of what was bad while exposing much about it that is great. As for a racist country electing a black man, only a true democrat could do that math.[/QUOTE]

    Good for you. But as to your last point, I did not say we are a racist country in toto. I said racism is alive and well within our country. And you know as well as I do that there are all too many whites whose main criterion for not voting for Obama is his skin color. They just can't bring themselves to vote for what one idiot referred to as "that black boy." I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with those who choose not to vote for Obama because of experience, policies, ideology, or the friends he keeps -- or vote for McCain because they agree with his. Look at the electoral map. Do you see a pattern re race? I do.

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2841018]My answer is no.

    Throughout recorded (and unrecorded) human history, "winners" of conflicts have taken advantage of "losers" in every way humanly possible.

    Put simply, Africa (and South America) lost (and in many ways their leaders helped themselves lose), Europe and her colonies "won", and the result is what happened (and has happened everywhere on earth throughout history up till recent times): Slavery.

    Africans were not the first slaves, nor the worst treated slaves, in history. Doesn't make what happened right in any form whatsoever, but should put it into a more appropriate historical perspective.

    So unless you feel something is owed by every single winner in recorded history, to every single loser in recorded history, then no, nothing is "owed" specificly to today's American Blacks.

    More importantly, the people who suffered are all dead, as are the pople who made them suffer. Trying to forward past guilt and past vitimization to today is flatly intellectually dishonest.

    I continue to give the example: My family came here to the States in 1970's. Clearly, I have NO debt wahtsoever to you or anyone else for Slavery, or even the racism of the 50's and 60's. But I have suffered personally to "right the wrong" that no one alive today actually suffered under.

    What we, as a people, should be working on is equallity. Not racial revenge.[/QUOTE]

    I feel that you are close but not quite correct in your assesment

    let me counter with these thoughts my friend, there is a debt in this country the debt is due to every man woman and child of every creed that is a US citizen to treat them equally and fairly and not judged by 'the color of their skin but by the content of their character' that is the debt that this society created when they drafted the constitution

    therfore this debt is applied to all members of this great nation, not just to blacks but to other groups as well, certainly the debt will be greater to some groups than others and it is up to this UNITED NATION to solve the debt in an equitable and fair manner that doesn't take away from any other group

    I think that in theory that is freakin awesome, tell me how to do it though cuz I aint smart enough to figure it out. I don't think there is a government program that can be created to ease the racial issues per se, but hard work and revitalization of certain parts of the country will certainly help as will time. However I still think that it starts in education, poor white trash and poor black trash certainly don't get equal education as those in wealthier areas of the nation, in reality I think this country has shifted from being divided racially to being divided financially, that is our problem moving forward.

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=long island leprechaun;2841122]And you know as well as I do that there are all too many whites whose main criterion for not voting for Obama is his skin color. They just can't bring themselves to vote for what one idiot referred to as "that black boy[/QUOTE]

    How many blacks will vote for Obama simply because he is black? (If your answer isn't at least 7 figures, you're simply disingenuous) Is it okay for them to vote strictly on skin color? If so, why would it not be okay to vote for McCain because he is white? Please explain.

    As for the idiot who referred to him as "that black boy," his name was Jimmy Carter.

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=shakin318;2841141]How many blacks will vote for Obama simply because he is black? (If your answer isn't at least 7 figures, you're simply disingenuous) Is it okay for them to vote strictly on skin color? If so, why would it not be okay to vote for McCain because he is white? Please explain.

    As for the idiot who referred to him as "that black boy," his name was Jimmy Carter.[/QUOTE]

    I don't think those people that you think are voting for McCain because he is white really exist, those people for the most part are the racists that would have voted for anyone aside from a part-black man...in my mind its a little different than just voting for him because he's white

    those that vote for Obama only because he's black have the right to do that but its ignorant based on that one criteria, however most blacks that vote would have voted for any democrat and not just BO as I think the vast majority of black voters are democrats anyway

  12. #32
    [QUOTE=TerryBadway;2841099]Hey man.....For years we've vehemently disagreed about this issue, but as always, your opinion is respected by me. I think racial revenge is a very harsh way of viewing this, and it muddles the efforts needed to push towards equality (with education in particular).

    You are dead wrong on the comment you made about the people who suffered being dead. My mom grew up in Weirton, WV and has real stories about injustice and suffering, and there are millions alive just like her.[/QUOTE]

    No doubt Terry, I have a ton of respect for you, and when it comes to this issue I alwasy read every word you write. You remind me, in many ways, of my old friend and our discussions, which is what made me bring that up. Last thing I ever want to do is be hurtful towards you, but I am forced to be honest to you as well.

    I appreciate that Racism and descrimination was and is real. What I do not agree on is that it warrants policy in law to hurt the race that did it, and reward the race who suffered under it. Slavery perhaps, but not racism. To me, all that does is perpetuate the bitterness, anger and other bad feelings between races by simply flipping policies, and hurting those today who did nothing wrong.

    My point, as it has always been, is that equallity will never be achived through racism or racial preference policies. And while I know I get mocked by plenty here at JI as the "reverse-racism whiner", I refuse to lie. My life was hurt by affirmative action, and I will never forgive those who did it. And THAT is exactly the kind of issue I'm referring to.

    African Americans make up ~12% of the population. But it seems being 12% isn;t good enough, that they need more as "payback". Not equallity, but advantage. Not fairness, but betterment of them at the disadvantage of others, disadvantage those others face and suiffer from only because their skin tone is similar to that of people 40-200 years had.

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=Mean Bro Green;2841146]
    those that vote for Obama only because he's black have the right to do that but its ignorant [/QUOTE]

    No, the term is not quite "ignorant," the term is "racist." It works both ways. It only gets called out one way, though.

  14. #34
    [QUOTE=Mean Bro Green;2841133]I feel that you are close but not quite correct in your assesment

    let me counter with these thoughts my friend, there is a debt in this country the debt is due to every man woman and child of every creed that is a US citizen to treat them equally and fairly and not judged by 'the color of their skin but by the content of their character' that is the debt that this society created when they drafted the constitution

    therfore this debt is applied to all members of this great nation, not just to blacks but to other groups as well, certainly the debt will be greater to some groups than others and it is up to this UNITED NATION to solve the debt in an equitable and fair manner that doesn't take away from any other group

    I think that in theory that is freakin awesome, tell me how to do it though cuz I aint smart enough to figure it out. I don't think there is a government program that can be created to ease the racial issues per se, but hard work and revitalization of certain parts of the country will certainly help as will time. However I still think that it starts in education, poor white trash and poor black trash certainly don't get equal education as those in wealthier areas of the nation, in reality I think this country has shifted from being divided racially to being divided financially, that is our problem moving forward.[/QUOTE]

    I am not smart enough either. But I think the answer has already presented itself: Time. Along with a healthy dose of self-determinationa nd personal responsabillity for what happens to ones culture from every day forward.

    Kid today don't see things as even I did a mere decade ago. Race isn't the issue it was, and racism isn't the issue it was. as time passes, that becomes more so.

    But when you have policies in place the remind everyone that the races ARE different, and must be treated differently, you defeat your own puposes of equallity. You remind (force) blacks to believe they are victims of oppression, even if they're not. and you victimize whites for crimes they never committed, hurting their lives, and making them angry and bitter and cynical about so-called equallity.

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2841149]No doubt Terry, I have a ton of respect for you, and when it comes to this issue I alwasy read every word you write. You remind me, in many ways, of my old friend and our discussions, which is what made me bring that up. Last thing I ever want to do is be hurtful towards you, but I am forced to be honest to you as well.

    I appreciate that Racism and descrimination was and is real. What I do not agree on is that it warrants policy in law to hurt the race that did it, and reward the race who suffered under it. Slavery perhaps, but not racism. To me, all that does is perpetuate the bitterness, anger and other bad feelings between races by simply flipping policies, and hurting those today who did nothing wrong.

    My point, as it has always been, is that equallity will never be achived through racism or racial preference policies. And while I know I get mocked by plenty here at JI as the "reverse-racism whiner", I refuse to lie. My life was hurt by affirmative action, and I will never forgive those who did it. And THAT is exactly the kind of issue I'm referring to.

    African Americans make up ~12% of the population. But it seems being 12% isn;t good enough, that they need more as "payback". Not equallity, but advantage. Not fairness, but betterment of them at the disadvantage of others, disadvantage those others face and suiffer from only because their skin tone is similar to that of people 40-200 years had.[/QUOTE]

    I understand where you're coming from man....And you didn't say anything hurtful to me, you spoke your mind, and you should be free to do that regardless to how any other adult feels.

    The AA issue with regards to higher education, I'm happy to say has been refined since your days of applying. I know with regards to the University of Wisconsin and with regards to the Company I currently work for, diversity candidates (Black, Latino, and in some cases Women) are placed in a different pool. This can be a good or bad thing for them, but in turn, diversity candidates have less of a potential effect on gen. pop. candidates. (I responded and went further into this in a thread you started a few weeks back).

    The saddest thing about this War, though, is that the bulk of the minority populace that have taken advantage of some these programs are not the ones in the greatest need of help. Between the bureaucratic red tape of urban school boards, and the host of other distractions and fears that these inner-city school kids have to face, some of the best opportunities to advance are not put in front of them. The status-quo is not working.

  16. #36
    [QUOTE=TerryBadway;2840977]
    The thing is.....We first have to answer, was/is there a debt owed?

    My answer to that would be, Certainly.[/QUOTE]

    I don't owe anything.

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2841209]I don't owe anything.[/QUOTE]

    OK.....Did you want a response, or did you just want to increase your post count?

  18. #38
    [QUOTE=TerryBadway;2841222]OK.....Did you want a response, or did you just want to increase your post count?[/QUOTE]

    If you want to respond, go ahead.

  19. #39
    [QUOTE=shakin318;2840866]When the likely happens and Obama wins the presidency, the humongous industry of "racism" that has grossly lined the pockets of wonderful human beings such as Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson will no longer hold water. Millions of Americans will now have to look in the mirror and finally blame themselves for their personal shortcomings, daily travails and human foibles that befall every one of us, no matter what color our skin. Personal accountability -- what a concept.

    Industry #2 to bite the bullet will be feminism. Any "women's rights" leader who attempts to address the country with a straight face after the shameless sexist virtual raping of Sarah Palin, all done gleefully by the liberal, tolerant, progressive left, will be a transparent joke.

    Now that that's out of the way, no matter who you choose, get off your ass today and exercise your right to vote![/QUOTE]


    Sarah Palin wasn't abused for being a woman, she was abused for being grossly underqualified for the position. If a man winked during a debate and spouted off the way she did, he would have been abused even worse. She had no command of the issues, no concept of what was important, and mady ridiculous comments from day one. Republican party truly regrets not picking Bobby Jindal or if they felt the need to go female, someone like Kay Bailey Hutchinson.

    Also, the idea that racism is dead because Obama may win is silly. That's not how it works.

    Just because the president is black doesn't make racist people, not racist. I would argue there hasn't been a racist president in a long time (despite what Kanye may think).

    Hopefully it will give people pause before blaming racism and sexism for everything that happens, and hopefully it's not used a crutch by media sycophants like Sharpton. But don't pretend racism doesn't exist anymore.

  20. #40
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    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2841227]If you want to respond, go ahead.[/QUOTE]

    My answer is above, BB.

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