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Thread: Proposition 8 Passes

  1. #21
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    Have to say as well, it's very sad that on a day we elected a black president, what could have been yet another huge moment in American history got shot down like this. As far as so many are claiming we've come as a country, we've still got such a long way to go.

  2. #22
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    [QUOTE=Postseason;2845258]To me, marriage originates as a religious institution, and as such, under a strict interpretation of separation of church and state should be up to the individual religions to decide. The government should only be issuing civil union licenses to everyone. If the government only issues civil union licenses then everyone is being treated equally under the law.

    If your religion doesn't support your marriage then break off from that religion. You certainly wouldn't be the first group to do so and you obviously don't agree with the beliefs of that religion anyways.

    Yes this is largely a semantics issue but most arguments invloving the interpretations of laws ultimately are.[/QUOTE]

    Great post. /approve.

  3. #23
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    [QUOTE=RutgersJetFan;2845285]Have to say as well, it's very sad that on a day we elected a black president, what could have been yet another huge moment in American history got shot down like this. As far as so many are claiming we've come as a country, we've still got such a long way to go.[/QUOTE]

    Actually, its not a coincidence, the black community voted 70-30 FOR prop 8 -- it was their high-turnout that did it. This is the same reason that Bush won Ohio in 2004 -- he got 30% of the black vote because of some gay-related item on the ballot.

    The religious blacks don't like the gays too much.

  4. #24
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    There are only 2 reasonable arguments against any law prohibiting gay marriage... and they are totally debatable in my opinion, I do not agree with these... but these are the ones that can be argued.

    1. Gay marriage begins to put an undo burden on employers that offer spousal benefits such as healthcare. The perception is that inclusiveness of gay marriage partners in employer sponsored benefits will increase costs to the employer for previously unpaid benefits as well as cause an increase in premiums due to the inclusiveness of "risky behavior" individuals in the group.

    2. Gay marriage is a first step on a slippery slope. Claims are being made that once gay marriage is approved, this will lend itself to individuals (by virtue or by pushing the limits) to attempt to prove marriage outside the species is a right as well.

    Again, before I get smashed on this, I do not agree with the above. However, if the case against gay marriage is going to be made on legal grounds, the above are the only reasonable (however weak) arguments that should be considered.

    The religious impact of marriage is a matter for the church. The church has a right to not marry anyone they please, just as those that can't get a church marriage can go to any number of other places to be married.

  5. #25
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    [quote=Postseason;2845258]To me, marriage originates as a religious institution, and as such, under a strict interpretation of separation of church and state should be up to the individual religions to decide. The government should only be issuing civil union licenses to everyone. If the government only issues civil union licenses then everyone is being treated equally under the law.

    If your religion doesn't support your marriage then break off from that religion. You certainly wouldn't be the first group to do so and you obviously don't agree with the beliefs of that religion anyways.

    Yes this is largely a semantics issue but most arguments invloving the interpretations of laws ultimately are.[/quote]i agree with that in principle, however, since the word "marriage" itself does not connote anything religious (it really just means a joinder, or coupling, and is used across many different unions including inanimate objects, ideas, etc.), i think they should probably rename each religions union. is "matrimony" a religious term? i think it is...

  6. #26
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    If religious people would like to base our laws from definitions set forth from their holy book...then they should pay taxes.

  7. #27
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    It's a waste of time and energy to vote on such a matter. That being said, if democracy is wonderful for enabling us to elect Obama, then democracy is just as wonderful when equally ridiculous decisions like this get made.

  8. #28
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    I find it hypocritical that so many people consider marriage such a sacred event when the divorce rate is at ~50% in the USA .... real sacred

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=quantum;2845073][B]I believe its a genetic defect[/B]. Marriage should be restricted to a man and woman, but am ok with civil unions.[/QUOTE]

    You just take a time machine here from the '50s? Well, at least you didn't call it a psychological disorder.

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=brady's a catcher;2845376]You just take a time machine here from the '50s? Well, at least you didn't call it a psychological disorder.[/QUOTE]

    Says the dude with the gay slur in his username.

    This place really is a freakshow. I could people-watch here all day.

  11. #31
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    This ticked off parents throughout the state

    Uproar Over S.F. Students Attending Lesbian Wedding
    by Kilian Melloy
    EDGE Contributor
    Monday Oct 13, 2008

    A parent of a San Francisco first-grader thought that a field trip for the class to wish their lesbian teacher well on her wedding day would be a fine idea--but proponents of an anti-family amendment targeting gay marriage rights have pounced on the trip as evidence that children are being "indoctrinated."

    An October 11 article in the San Francisco Chronicle detailed how the first-grade class surprised their teacher, Erin Carer, with rose petals and bubbles as the newly-married woman and her wife, Kerri McCoy, emerged from San Francisco’ City Hall

    For the kids, it was a "teaching moment," said the interim director of the 18 Creative Arts Charter School, Liz Jaroslow.

    For anti-gay advocates of Proposition 8, a ballot initiative that would rescind marriage rights and bar gay and lesbian families from the legal ability to wed, the field trip was "utterly unreasonable," in the words of the press secretary for anti-gay group Yes on 8, Chip White.

    The co-manager of Yes on 8, Frank Schubert, was quoted in the site’s text as saying, "I doubt the school has ever taken kids on a field trip to a traditional wedding."

    The families of the school children were given the choice to keep their children in school instead of allowing them to participate in the noontime field trip to City Hall. Two families chose to opt their children out; the rest sent their kids on the field trip with their blessings.

  12. #32
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    [QUOTE=JetFanTransplant;2845342]There are only 2 reasonable arguments against any law prohibiting gay marriage... and they are totally debatable in my opinion, I do not agree with these... but these are the ones that can be argued.

    1. Gay marriage begins to put an undo burden on employers that offer spousal benefits such as healthcare. The perception is that inclusiveness of gay marriage partners in employer sponsored benefits will increase costs to the employer for previously unpaid benefits as well as cause an increase in premiums due to the inclusiveness of "risky behavior" individuals in the group.

    [B]2. Gay marriage is a first step on a slippery slope. Claims are being made that once gay marriage is approved, this will lend itself to individuals (by virtue or by pushing the limits) to attempt to prove marriage outside the species is a right as well.[/B]

    Again, before I get smashed on this, I do not agree with the above. However, if the case against gay marriage is going to be made on legal grounds, the above are the only reasonable (however weak) arguments that should be considered.

    The religious impact of marriage is a matter for the church. The church has a right to not marry anyone they please, just as those that can't get a church marriage can go to any number of other places to be married.[/QUOTE]

    I've heard the slippery slope argument many times, but I, like you, don't buy it. If people aren't concerned that decriminalizing marijuana would lead to legalizing cocaine, then why should people worry that allowing gay marriages will result in people begging to get hitched to donkeys, rabbits, or geese?

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=MysticalJet;2845372]I find it hypocritical that so many people consider marriage such a sacred event when the divorce rate is at ~50% in the USA .... real sacred[/QUOTE]

    I often wonder how much effect drunken Vegas weddings have on that %. It really should be illegal to get married there.

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=Crease29;2845418]I've heard the slippery slope argument many times, but I, like you, don't buy it. If people aren't concerned that decriminalizing marijuana would lead to legalizing cocaine, then why should people worry that allowing gay marriages will result in people begging to get hitched to donkeys, rabbits, or geese?[/QUOTE]

    But see... there are many people that also believe the decriminalization of pot will lead down another slippery slope of either further decriminalization of other other drugs and of course the "gateway" drug argument leading to more healthcare concerns amongst others.

    Again, I don't buy it though.

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=MysticalJet;2845372]I find it hypocritical that so many people consider marriage such a sacred event when the divorce rate is at ~50% in the USA .... real sacred[/QUOTE]

    And, ironically, Massachusetts --where gays can get hitched-- has the country's lowest divorce rate. Some "threat" to traditional marriage gay nuptials are.

    Where is the highest divorce rate? On the bible belt, of course, in places like Arkansas and Mississippi (also high: Nevada (all those Vegas chapels, I guess) and Alaska -- you betcha.).

    You honestly can't make this stuff up.

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2845267]For a long time I was where most of you are -- Civil Unions with same rights as marriage. However, I have been persuaded that the law must simply treat both gays & straights equally in regard to marriage. There are two related reasons: 1) I can assure you that gays insist that a differently named/ substantively equal Civil Union is not adequate and 2) If we are to provide equal protection under the laws, I don't see how you can not offer marriage to gays without implying that they have some kind of inferior status.

    Now this does not mean, in any way, that any Church has to perform or recognize these marriages.[/QUOTE]

    So, government shouldn't get involved in marriage, but they should in communication?

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=quantum;2845073]I believe its a genetic defect. [/QUOTE]

    I agree. Marriage is a genetic defect that many of us live with. Something should be done.

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=Crease29;2845418]why should people worry that allowing gay marriages will result in people begging to [B]get hitched to donkeys[/B], rabbits, or geese?[/QUOTE]

    Well, for one, my fiancee is always complaining that she's marrying an ass. Something must be done.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2845677]So, government shouldn't get involved in marriage, but they should in communication?[/QUOTE]

    Marriage and communication are mutually exclusive

  20. #40
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    I could do this all day

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