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Thread: Something to ponder

  1. #1
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    Something to ponder

    [url]http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27558633[/url]

    [QUOTE]Neither party has all the answers

    By Joe Scarborough
    updated 3:02 p.m. ET, Wed., Nov. 5, 2008

    Sixteen years ago, I remember slumping on my couch in Cordova Park as blue blots bled east to west across my television screen.

    Bill Clinton was on the way to his improbable 1992 victory, and 12 years of Reagan-Bush rule was coming to an end.

    I was inconsolable.

    My then 5-year-old boy approached the couch carefully and offered reassurance.

    "Don't worry, Daddy," Joey said. "Maybe Clinton won't raise taxes after all."

    I realized then that it was time to turn off the TV, stop obsessing over the Clinton landslide, and instead read "Goodnight Moon" to my young son.

    Despite Joey's assurances, Bill Clinton did raise taxes.

    But despite my fears, America survived the Clinton Era.

    A few years earlier, I had asked the head of my university's history department what he thought of Ronald Reagan.

    I was shocked at his response.

    After glaring over the rims of his glasses for a few seconds, he chose his words carefully before saying, "I think America is strong enough to survive even eight years of Mr. Reagan."

    I wondered to myself how could any red-blooded American suggest that eight years of Reagan was anything other than morning in America.

    I guess the same way I feared America might not make it through our two-term trip with Bill Clinton.

    But we did. Like we survived the past eight years of the Bush administration — despite Democrats declaring weekly that America's collapse was imminent.

    Enough.

    It's time for us to have a little faith in the greatness of our land, and a lot of tolerance for fellow citizens who do not think exactly like we do.

    Liberals and conservatives like to attack each other as closed-minded, but the truth is both sides have behaved badly over the past few decades.

    The right declared political war on Clinton even before he was sworn into office. Clinton returned the favor and destroyed political opponents who got in his way.

    Clinton was accused of undermining the military, selling access to the White House and ruining the moral fabric of America.

    As Clinton was leaving Washington, George W. Bush made his way to the White House by launching vicious attacks on John McCain during a GOP primary. Once in office, it was Bush who had to withstand a torrent of hyperbolic attacks from the angry left.

    He was accused of spilling blood for oil, for lying his way into war and of shredding the Constitution.

    That politics has turned into such a blood sport over the past 16 years says less about the politicians who have run this country than the political commentators who launched such hysterical attacks.

    These days, subtlety of thought is a scarce commodity in public discourse.

    It took me a few years in Congress to figure out my party didn't own exclusive rights to the truth. That realization was liberating and allowed me to focus more directly on what was in the best interests of America instead of the Republican Party.

    Had more GOP leaders thought that way, the party of Reagan would not be in shambles this morning.

    But it is, so what's next?

    A good start might be to stand for something and then to commit to disagreeing without being disagreeable.

    It may sound radical, but I think we have no choice

    [/QUOTE]

  2. #2
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    [quote]Despite Joey's assurances, Bill Clinton did raise taxes.

    But despite my fears, America survived the Clinton Era. [/quote]

    yeah all those jobs, all that money, the optimism - it's real wonder our country made it through.

  3. #3
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2845541]yeah all those jobs, all that money, the optimism - it's real wonder our country made it through.[/QUOTE]

    Thanks to people like Newt Gingrich.

    How have we fared since Pelosi and Reid have been in control?

    I remember Starch face saying two years ago, vote Democrat, We have a plan to lower gas prices. Gas was 2.75 a gallon then. It went to around 5.00 a gallon with them in control. Great plan starch face.....

    Now we have the second Carter term coming in January. But hey, the Dims and the criminal liberal media will have no one to blame now.

    The good news is, expect a Republican landslide in 2012....

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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2845541]yeah all those jobs, all that money, the optimism - it's real wonder our country made it through.[/QUOTE]

    Psst. Congress drive economic policy. In this case a Conservative congress.

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    Wow. I didn't mean to open a debate on the merits of tax policy. But it does seem that you are "disagreeing without being disagreeable", so I guess its a start.

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    C'mon people. The real fault with the economy lies with poor people.

  7. #7
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    Good article. Neither side has cornered the market on brains. :)

    In this current political climate, much anti-Bush and anti-GOP, my Representative who is an Indpendent thinking Republican, was reelected by 2/3's vote. The Rep in the neighboring district who also is a Republican but will not think on her own and votes lock/step with Pres. Bush, appears to have lost her seat to a "new to politics" democrat. She finished 6,000 votes behind with 28,000 absentee ballots being counted today.

    My point is, it appears relatively easy to get re-elected if you look out for your constituents, think independently and are fair and honest.

  8. #8
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2845654]C'mon people. The real fault with the economy lies with poor people.[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, they just don't buy enough PS 3's and LCD tv's. :rolleyes:

  9. #9
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    [QUOTE=chesapeakejet;2845689]Yeah, they just don't buy enough PS 3's and LCD tv's. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

    No...it's not the durable goods market that tanked everything. Poor people bought plenty of PS3's...I know someone who bought 18 of them. I only own 6.

    It's all the McMansions and second vacation home condos in Florida that poor folks bought that is bringing the economy down. They should have just been happy with the two story colonial in the Burbs that the Dem's forced the banks to mortgage to them. They should have definitely stayed away from the Florida housing market...it's a pool of sharks down there. The last time I bought a plane ticket with food stamps and flew down there for my spa getaway, I was almost shanked by an 80 year old lady with blue hair who was driving a Cushman! Dangerous that Boca, dangerous...

    :D

  10. #10
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2845541]yeah all those jobs, all that money, the optimism - it's real wonder our country made it through.[/QUOTE]

    We sacrificed our defense for those jobs and that money. While we let the world become more dangerous and appeared passive to the threat of AQ, they plotted against us. We ended up paying for that with much more than jobs.

  11. #11
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2845541]yeah all those jobs, all that money, the optimism - it's real wonder our country made it through.[/QUOTE]
    And it would have been better with more economic freedom

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    [QUOTE=jetstream23;2845708]We sacrificed our defense for those jobs and that money. [/QUOTE]

    If only we had built a 13th aircraft carrier..we could have prevented 9/11.

    Or maybe....maybe if we invented some sort of printable medium which could have been inserted into some sort of cardstock type foldable holder which then could have been handed to someone in charge of military things. And maybe if we had some kind of marking substance to use to convey language on that printable medium and handed it to someone and alerted the proper people to the machinations of our enemies.

    Oh well. Hindsight is 20/20....

  13. #13
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    All this proves is what I have been saying for a while now. The difference between Republicans and Democrats is [I]miniscule[/I] in the grand scheme of things.

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    [QUOTE=Guido Monzino;2845736]All this proves is what I have been saying for a while now. The difference between Republicans and Democrats is [I]miniscule[/I] in the grand scheme of things.[/QUOTE]

    Yup, it's not about left v. right, but rather, freedom v. authoritanism. The Dems and GOP are simply authoritarian in different ways.

  15. #15
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    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2845745]Yup, it's not about left v. right, but rather, freedom v. authoritanism. The Dems and GOP are simply authoritarian in different ways.[/QUOTE]

    Liberty is slowly eroding and no one is even noticing because they're too busy bickering about who to tax more.

    btw, I hate that we're so in agreement politically - just because of the baseball forum ;)

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE=Guido Monzino;2845756]Liberty is slowly eroding and no one is even noticing because they're too busy bickering about who to tax more.

    btw, I hate that we're so in agreement politically - just because of the baseball forum ;)[/QUOTE]
    Yep, while the masses debate left v. right, the state grows bigger and more powerful in absolute terms. Both parties win in this regard.

    Hey, I'm that bad in the baseball forum? I don't think of myself as a Yankee hater :)

  17. #17
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    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2845758]Yep, while the masses debate left v. right, the state grows bigger and more powerful in absolute terms. Both parties win in this regard.

    Hey, I'm that bad in the baseball forum? I don't think of myself as a Yankee hater :)[/QUOTE]

    I fear that our political system is too broken to ever fix. As long as lobbysists are making millions telling their clients what's best for them and playing tug-of-war with the tax code, nothing will change.

    We joke about how guys like Limbaugh and Olberman are extreme and sensationalistic, but most realize that they know this act is what keeps them in business and the checks rolling in. What's sad is that our politicians are now at that point to, playing the same game. Few of them are in for the betterment of this country. Most of them are in it for the betterment of themselves.

    Then again, you know a little idea out there that gives me a tiny little ray of hope.

    EDIT: btw, jk on the baseball thing
    Last edited by JetPotato; 11-06-2008 at 04:03 PM.

  18. #18
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2845654]C'mon people. The real fault with the economy lies with poor people.[/QUOTE]

    You say that so often I think you're starting to convince yourself of it.

  19. #19
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2845654]C'mon people. The real fault with the economy lies with poor people.[/QUOTE]

    Poor people = always good

    Rich people = always bad

    We get it.

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2845861]Poor people = always good

    Rich people = always bad

    We get it.[/QUOTE]

    What absolutely disgusts me is how some politicians try to make "rich" seem like a dirty word, like people should be ashamed or embarrassed about what they've achieved and earned.

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