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Thread: Joe the Plumber - Welfare Recipient

  1. #81
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2851044]OK, so here's the chronology of the whole thing --

    I posted the Joe the Plumber vid on October 15, the same day the NY Post and all other media outlets first ran the story of Joe's encounter with Obama. Here's that thread: [url]http://jetsinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180332[/url]

    That night, October 15, was the night of the Presidential debate at Hofstra.

    Going by my thread, the very next day the character assassinations started, beginning with this post:



    So, I guess we're all correct. The attacks on "Joe" began the day after his encounter became public, October 16, which was [B]also [/B]the day after the debate.[/QUOTE]

    I think the encounter was on the 12th though and just didn't get posted here until the 15th. But the real debate here with the timeframe wasn't how many days later it occurred, but whether the liberal hound dogs went after him before or after McCain gave them reason to.. ;)

  2. #82
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2851044]OK, so here's the chronology of the whole thing --

    I posted the Joe the Plumber vid on October 15, the same day the NY Post and all other media outlets first ran the story of Joe's encounter with Obama. Here's that thread: [url]http://jetsinsider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180332[/url]

    That night, October 15, was the night of the Presidential debate at Hofstra.

    Going by my thread, the very next day the character assassinations started, beginning with this post:



    So, I guess we're all correct. The attacks on "Joe" began the day after his encounter became public, October 16, which was [B]also [/B]the day after the debate.[/QUOTE]

    For the most part, the "attacks" weren't really attacks. Other than wrongly reporting that the guy was related to Keating, it was all relevant to whether he was sincerely engaging Obama, that the facts he asserted were true, or just made up to support his conservative viewpoints.

  3. #83
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    [QUOTE=CTM;2851082]I think the encounter was on the 12th though and just didn't get posted here until the 15th. But the real debate here with the timeframe wasn't how many days later it occurred, but whether the liberal hound dogs went after him before or after McCain gave them reason to.. ;)[/QUOTE]

    I still think this whole thing is stupid. Joe asked a legit question, put Obama on the spot, and it was a no-brainer for the McCain camp to exploit it. A "regular guy" getting in the Chosen One's face and actually trying to cut through the bull**** of his tax policy, doing something the major media refused to do. It was like a talking point gift for any campaign.

    So he turned out to be a liar, so what? For his effort we all got to hear Obama speak frankly and honestly about one of his major policies, at the spur of the moment, without any preparation.

  4. #84
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2851109]I still think this whole thing is stupid. Joe asked a legit question, put Obama on the spot, and it was a no-brainer for the McCain camp to exploit it. A "regular guy" getting in the Chosen One's face and actually trying to cut through the bull**** of his tax policy, doing something the major media refused to do. It was like a talking point gift for any campaign.

    So he turned out to be a liar, so what? For his effort we all got to hear Obama speak frankly and honestly about one of his major policies, at the spur of the moment, without any preparation.[/QUOTE]

    The guy was kidding himself and Obama's platform in theory would help him directly. You really don't see the irony in that?

  5. #85
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    [QUOTE=RutgersJetFan;2851129]The guy was kidding himself and Obama's platform in theory would help him directly. You really don't see the irony in that?[/QUOTE]

    Yeah, sure, but like I said, who cares?

    You know what matters to me? Understanding the ins and outs of a candidate's policies completely. Knowing what his stances are and why he holds those beliefs, and how they will impact Americans' lives -- that's what's important. There's no way in hell you could go to the mass media to dig deep into Obama's policies during this campaign, so it actually took some schmuck fake plumber, who pretended to be more successful than he was, to put Obama on the spot and ask him the intricacies about his tax policy in real-life terms. God knows Chris "Thrill Up My Leg" Matthews wasn't going to get to the bottom of it.

    It's ironic, but it matters very little. Joe the Plumber's life doesn't mean **** to me, but Obama's policies do. I could not have cared less if he was wearing a fake mustache and an eye patch when he confronted Obama on the campaign trail.

  6. #86
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2851155]Yeah, sure, but like I said, who cares?

    You know what matters to me? Understanding the ins and outs of a candidate's policies completely. Knowing what his stances are and why he holds those beliefs, and how they will impact Americans' lives -- that's what's important. There's no way in hell you could go to the mass media to dig deep into Obama's policies during this campaign, so it actually took some schmuck fake plumber, who pretended to be more successful than he was, to put Obama on the spot and ask him the intricacies about his tax policy in real-life terms. God knows Chris "Thrill Up My Leg" Matthews wasn't going to get to the bottom of it.

    It's ironic, but it matters very little. Joe the Plumber's life doesn't mean **** to me, but Obama's policies do. I could not have cared less if he was wearing a fake mustache and an eye patch when he confronted Obama on the campaign trail.[/QUOTE]

    So asking a question made Joe the Plumber some kind of hero?

    He was exposed and rightfully so after the McCain campaign made him its centerpiece. You don't get to be a dominating force in Presidential politics and get a free ride while being a proven fake.

    If it took an unscripted question by a random "plumber" to get to the bottom of Obama's tax policies, then you have nothing to blame but a complete lack of execution and competence out of the McCain campaign.

  7. #87
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2851155]I could not have cared less if he was wearing a fake mustache and an eye patch when he confronted Obama on the campaign trail.[/QUOTE]

    I understand what your are trying to say here, and it makes perfect sense...but it still doesn't fly very far. Had McCain been approached by someone pretending to be a veteran and was asked about his dubious stances on Vet care...the cries from the right would have been deafening. Now, I realize that my analogy represents something way worse than just pretending to be a business owner who is pretending he is making 250k/year...masquerading as a vet would be despicable. Masquerading as a plumber is just kinda sad.

    But when you frame your question based on lies...don't act surprised when in the age of the InTeRnEtZ, people call you on your bulls**t. Is it stupid? Yes. Should the media be concentrating on actual policy instead on Joe's checkered past? Of course. But in a 24 hour news cycle..there is plenty of time to devote to dumb stuff.

    Bottom line...Joe should have just been honest. But his honesty wouldn't of mattered had John McCain not mentioned his name 12,774 times in the subsequent debate. Further proof that the McCain camp thought that research and vetting were unimportant.

  8. #88
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2851155]Yeah, sure, but like I said, who cares?

    You know what matters to me? Understanding the ins and outs of a candidate's policies completely. Knowing what his stances are and why he holds those beliefs, and how they will impact Americans' lives -- that's what's important. There's no way in hell you could go to the mass media to dig deep into Obama's policies during this campaign, so it actually took some schmuck fake plumber, who pretended to be more successful than he was, to put Obama on the spot and ask him the intricacies about his tax policy in real-life terms. God knows Chris "Thrill Up My Leg" Matthews wasn't going to get to the bottom of it.

    It's ironic, but it matters very little. Joe the Plumber's life doesn't mean **** to me, but Obama's policies do. I could not have cared less if he was wearing a fake mustache and an eye patch when he confronted Obama on the campaign trail.[/QUOTE]
    That's the thing, Obama's policies help Joe in this instance. That's why it's relevant. Joe accuses the guy of trying to take his money, but that's not the case. His life is relevant to Obama's answer due to the context he posed his question in. And context is everything.

    I actually think it goes to the heart of too many kidding themselves over Obama's policies. The fact that he posed these questions in regards to himself, when in fact he's not living the life he thinks he is and needs legitimate help, is a primo example of so many not giving the guy a fair shot due to the socialist and messiah labels bestowed upon him by the opposition.

    Those issues would have been brought up during the 3rd debate regardless. Instead we were forced to sit and listen to McCain accuse Obama of trying to take Joe's money, when that's just not the reality of the situation.

  9. #89
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    [QUOTE=parafly;2851230]So asking a question made Joe the Plumber some kind of hero?

    He was exposed and rightfully so after the McCain campaign made him its centerpiece. You don't get to be a dominating force in Presidential politics and get a free ride while being a proven fake.

    If it took an unscripted question by a random "plumber" to get to the bottom of Obama's tax policies, then you have nothing to blame but a complete lack of execution and competence out of the McCain campaign.[/QUOTE]

    No, you have nothing to blame but a complacent, star-struck media. Like Matthews said last week, it's his job as a journalist to see that Obama is a successful President.

  10. #90
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    [QUOTE=RutgersJetFan;2851237]That's the thing, Obama's policies help Joe in this instance. That's why it's relevant. Joe accuses the guy of trying to take his money, but that's not the case. His life is relevant to Obama's answer due to the context he posed his question in. And context is everything.

    [B]I actually think it goes to the heart of too many kidding themselves over Obama's policies. The fact that he posed these questions in regards to himself, when in fact he's not living the life he thinks he is and needs legitimate help, is a primo example of so many not giving the guy a fair shot due to the socialist and messiah labels bestowed upon him by the opposition.[/B]

    Those issues would have been brought up during the 3rd debate regardless. Instead we were forced to sit and listen to McCain accuse Obama of trying to take Joe's money, when that's just not the reality of the situation.[/QUOTE]


    So, what? The principles of a smaller government, fiscal responsibility, and everything I hold dear are irrelevant because I am simply "kidding myself" about how Obama's policies will affect my life directly? No, I don't make over $250,000. I also don't believe unfair taxes are "patriotic" or "neighborly".

    I might as well admit that the federal government bailing out every failed corporation that asks for free money doesn't really affect me either. That doesn't make it right.

  11. #91
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    [QUOTE=parafly;2851230]So asking a question made Joe the Plumber some kind of hero?

    He was exposed and rightfully so after the McCain campaign made him its centerpiece. You don't get to be a dominating force in Presidential politics and get a free ride while being a proven fake.

    If it took an unscripted question by a random "plumber" to get to the bottom of Obama's tax policies, then you have nothing to blame but a complete lack of execution and competence out of the McCain campaign.[/QUOTE]



    Exactly correct, the McCain camp ran a terrible campaign and "Joe the non-plumber" was just the latest lame attempt at another hail Mary pass just like the Palin pick and the suspension of his campaign....

    Country first, what a crock.....They made this liar and tax cheat fraud the centerpiece of their campaign the last few weeks because they could not get out a coherent message out on their own....

  12. #92
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2851109]I still think this whole thing is stupid. Joe asked a legit question, put Obama on the spot, and it was a no-brainer for the McCain camp to exploit it. A "regular guy" getting in the Chosen One's face and actually trying to cut through the bull**** of his tax policy, doing something the major media refused to do. It was like a talking point gift for any campaign.

    So he turned out to be a liar, so what? For his effort we all got to hear Obama speak frankly and honestly about one of his major policies, at the spur of the moment, without any preparation.[/QUOTE]

    I think it's stupid as well, but for different reasons I guess, namely that anybody's panties would be in a bunch about the way this guy is getting treated..

  13. #93
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2851238]No, you have nothing to blame but a complacent, star-struck media.[/QUOTE]

    Baloney. You can cry about the media all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that McCain ran one of the worst campaigns in recent memory.

    What exactly did Joe the Plumber expose about Obama's tax policy that the media didn't cover?

  14. #94
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2851243]So, what? The principles of a smaller government, fiscal responsibility, and everything I hold dear are irrelevant because I am simply "kidding myself" about how Obama's policies will affect my life directly? No, I don't make over $250,000. I also don't believe unfair taxes are "patriotic" or "neighborly".

    I might as well admit that the federal government bailing out every failed corporation that asks for free money doesn't really affect me either. That doesn't make it right.[/QUOTE]

    That's beside the point, and has nothing to do with why the entire thing is discussion-worthy. The fact of the matter is that this man accused Obama of trying to take his money when that's not the case. The RNC then decided to campaign on the platform that Obama's trying to take this hard-working man's money. None of that was true. It boggles my mind that you really don't see how that's newsworthy or relevant to the campaign that we just sat through. It's one of the best examples you'll find of a mismanaged McCain campaign and general misunderstanding of Obama's platform due to Republican generalizations aimed at undecided voters.

  15. #95
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    [QUOTE=PlumberKhan;2851233]
    But when you frame your question based on lies...don't act surprised when in the age of the InTeRnEtZ, people call you on your bulls**t. Is it stupid? Yes. Should the media be concentrating on actual policy instead on Joe's checkered past? Of course. But in a 24 hour news cycle..there is plenty of time to devote to dumb stuff.

    Bottom line...Joe should have just been honest. But his honesty wouldn't of mattered had John McCain not mentioned his name 12,774 times in the subsequent debate. Further proof that the McCain camp thought that research and vetting were unimportant.[/QUOTE]

    Good points all around, I agree. It's a stupid news story that adds fluff to an otherwise fluff-packed 24 hour news coverage machine. But at the same time, it exists as another example of McCain's poorly-run campaign.

  16. #96
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    [QUOTE=RutgersJetFan;2851257]That's beside the point, and has nothing to do with why the entire thing is discussion-worthy. The fact of the matter is that this man accused Obama of trying to take his money when that's not the case. The RNC then decided to campaign on the platform that Obama's trying to take this hard-working man's money. None of that was true. It boggles my mind that you really don't see how that's newsworthy or relevant to the campaign that we just sat through. It's one of the best examples you'll find of a mismanaged McCain campaign and general misunderstanding of Obama's platform due to Republican generalizations aimed at undecided voters.[/QUOTE]

    Oh, it's definitely an indictment on McCain's campaign. I never disputed that. But a general misunderstanding of Obama's campaign platform was due to a lot more than just "Republican generalizations."

  17. #97
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    [QUOTE=RutgersJetFan;2851237]That's the thing, Obama's policies help Joe in this instance. That's why it's relevant. Joe accuses the guy of trying to take his money, but that's not the case. His life is relevant to Obama's answer due to the context he posed his question in. And context is everything.

    I actually think it goes to the heart of too many kidding themselves over Obama's policies. The fact that he posed these questions in regards to himself, when in fact he's not living the life he thinks he is and needs legitimate help, is a primo example of so many not giving the guy a fair shot due to the socialist and messiah labels bestowed upon him by the opposition.

    Those issues would have been brought up during the 3rd debate regardless. Instead we were forced to sit and listen to McCain accuse Obama of trying to take Joe's money, when that's just not the reality of the situation.[/QUOTE]
    Agreed. It should be noted by the way, that this was all intentional by McCain. Joe the Plumber was supposed to represent Joe Everyman, and if Joe everyman, a plumber, is being hurt by Obama's policies surely everybody else will. The truth is that the amount of business owners making and claiming over 250k is the vast minority and certainly not fitting the joe everyman caricature

  18. #98
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    [QUOTE=parafly;2851253]Baloney. You can cry about the media all you want, but that doesn't change the fact that McCain ran one of the worst campaigns in recent memory.
    [B]
    What exactly did Joe the Plumber expose about Obama's tax policy that the media didn't cover?[/B][/QUOTE]

    It didn't give the American people a faux visual representation to misreprent the policies to the gen. public.

    Listening to talk radio around this time, there was plenty of people calling in making 50-60k worried about Obama taking their hard earned money and giving it to lazy people..

  19. #99
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    [QUOTE=CTM;2851278]It didn't give the American people a faux visual representation to misreprent the policies to the gen. public.

    Listening to talk radio around this time, there was plenty of people calling in making 50-60k worried about Obama taking their hard earned money and giving it to lazy people..[/QUOTE]

    And you know what it all goes back to? The stupidity of the American public. The fact that the vast majority of this country is woefully, embarrassingly uninformed.

    McCain voters thought that Obama would take their money and give them to lazy people, and Obama voters thought that they wouldn't have to pay for gas or their mortgages anymore. Stupidity knows no party lines. Don't count on a political campaign to properly inform the public, because no matter who is running, it's all about propaganda.

  20. #100
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    [QUOTE=CTM;2851278]It didn't give the American people a faux visual representation to misreprent the policies to the gen. public.

    Listening to talk radio around this time, there was plenty of people calling in making 50-60k worried about Obama taking their hard earned money and giving it to lazy people..[/QUOTE]

    The evil leftist media. Bastids didn't distort the truth about Obama's tax plan, someone had to...

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