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Thread: OT: 8 Year old kills dad and another man...

  1. #1
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    OT: 8 Year old kills dad and another man...

    Guess this kid was trained in the proper use of fire arms... Discuss.

    The New York Times
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    November 11, 2008
    Prosecutors Say Boy Methodically Shot His Father
    By JOHN DOUGHERTY and ANAHAD O’CONNOR

    An 8-year-old Arizona boy charged with premeditated murder in the deaths of his father and another man shot each victim at least four times with a .22-caliber rifle, methodically stopping and reloading as he killed them, prosecutors said Monday.

    Although investigators initially said they thought the boy might have suffered severe physical or sexual trauma, they have found no evidence of abuse, said Roy Melnick, the police chief in St. Johns, Ariz., where the shootings occurred. Psychologists say such abuse is often a factor in the extremely rare instances in which a small child murders a parent.

    An investigation found no evidence that the boy had had disciplinary problems at school or shown signs that he was troubled, Chief Melnick said. “That’s what makes this case somewhat puzzling,” he said, adding that the court had ordered a psychological evaluation for the boy. “Our goal is to get him some help.”

    Kathleen M. Heide, a criminology professor at the University of South Florida, said the odds of such killings “are so infinitesimal, it’s really hard to even comprehend.”

    From 1976 to 2005, there were 62 cases in the United States in which a 7- or 8-year-old was arrested on murder charges, said Dr. Heide, who analyzed F.B.I. data. Only two of those cases involved a child killing a parent. Children younger than 7 who commit killings are not charged in most states.

    In cases in which a child kills a parent, the child is typically a teenager and usually acts for one of three reasons, psychologists say. Most often, the child has suffered years of physical or sexual abuse. Others kill because of severe mental illness. And some have extreme antisocial or psychopathic tendencies — a child who is used to getting his way and kills out of anger.

    “The wrinkle here,” Dr. Heide said, “is that this boy is so young, it could possibly be immaturity and impulsivity.” In children as young as 8, parts of the brain that weigh decisions and consequences are so underdeveloped that a child might not understand the finality of death.

    The boy in Arizona was no stranger to weapons — his father, an avid hunter, reportedly trained his son to shoot prairie dogs — and psychologists said that might have played a role.

    The shootings occurred Wednesday afternoon in the two-story home in St. Johns, about 200 miles northeast of Phoenix, where the boy lived with his father, Vincent Romero, 29. The deputy attorney for Apache County, Brad Carlyon, said Monday that the boy was taken to the police by his grandmother and initially considered a victim because he was believed to have discovered the men’s bodies.

    But about 45 minutes into an hourlong police interview, Mr. Carlyon said, the boy confessed to shooting his father and a man who rented a room in the house, Timothy Romans, 39, of San Carlos, Ariz.

    Mr. Carlyon said the boy told the police that he had been spanked at home the night before because he was having trouble at school. But, the prosecutor said, the boy “did not say that was the reason he committed any of the acts.”

    Prosecutors said the murder weapon was a single-action .22-caliber hunting rifle that requires reloading before each shot. “He had to eject the shell from the rifle and put in a new shell each time he fired,” Mr. Carlyon said.

    Mr. Carlyon and Chief Melnick spoke to The New York Times shortly before an Apache County judge placed a gag order on lawyers and the police a little before noon Monday.

    Mr. Romero, who was divorced from the boy’s mother, had recently remarried and had custody of his son. Mr. Romero was the first victim, investigators said, shot in the head and chest as he walked up a staircase inside the house shortly after 5 p.m.

    Mr. Romans was outside the house talking on his cellphone to his wife, Mr. Carlyon said, when he heard some commotion inside. Mr. Carlyon said the rifle produced only a “muffled, soft popping” sound, making it likely that Mr. Romans had no idea what had happened inside. Mr. Carlyon said Mr. Romans had told his wife that the boy was calling for him. He was on the porch on his way into the house when he was shot in the chest and head, the authorities said.

    The police arrived at the house one minute after receiving a phone call from a neighbor at 5:08 p.m., Chief Melnick said. Both men were dead. The chief said the boy was not immediately taken into custody. “He was considered a witness,” Chief Melnick said.

    A secretary for the boy’s lawyer, Benjamin Brewer, said Mr. Brewer was in court all day Monday and could not be reached for comment. Mr. Brewer has said that neither he nor the boy’s family was present for the questioning and that the boy was not read his rights. He is being held at the Apache County Juvenile Detention Center.

  2. #2
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    He must be a pretty good shot.

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    insert gun control post here

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    [QUOTE=NYJets4life;2869997]He must be a pretty good shot.[/QUOTE]

    Really.

    To kill a grown man with a .22, and to severely incapacitate each of them to the point that the 8 y.o. would have enough time to reload after every shot before either/both adult men would have the ability to take the gun from him, is pretty extraordinary.

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    He's Dexter

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    [QUOTE=BrooklynBound;2870002]insert gun control post here[/QUOTE]

    Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner!!!

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    [QUOTE=JamaicanJetFan]He's Dexter[/QUOTE]lol

    Good lord, that is horrifying. Single action rifle. How many prairie dogs did he shoot each day?

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    Horrible story. It's been on the news nightly here since it happened.

    Classic "chicken or the egg" debate though....do guns kill people or do people kill people? IMO, if you have the intent you can pretty much do anything. Whether he decided to poison someone or stab his father in his sleep, it was the decision to commit the act(s) that needs to be understood...not the method. However, it is pretty obvious that basic gun safety and locking is a must in any home possessing firearms. Well, obvious to those of us with common sense.
    Last edited by jetstream23; 11-18-2008 at 11:43 PM.

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    This must be an example of those "small town values" everyone keeps talking about!

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    10 to 1 the divorce and subsequent remarriage was a factor.

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    [quote=jetstream23;2870049]Horrible story. It's been on the news nightly here since it happened.

    Classic "chicken or the egg" debate though....do guns kill people or do people kill people? IMO, if you have the intent you can pretty much do anything. Whether he decided to poison someone or stab his father in his sleep, it was the decision to commit the act(s) that needs to be understood...not the method. However, it is pretty obvious that basic gun safety and locking is a must in any home possessing firearms. Well, obvious to those of us with common sense.[/quote]

    Yes, except the odds that an 8 year old with a knife can kill a grown man are much lower

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    [QUOTE]The boy in Arizona was no stranger to weapons — his father, an avid hunter, reportedly trained his son to shoot prairie dogs — and psychologists said that might have played a role.
    [/QUOTE]


    Ah, the old my daddy taught me how to shoot a prairie dog so I thought I could shoot him defense.

    Little bastard.

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    Clearly I need to use my Constitutional Rights to own a Firearm, to protect myself for the Armies of insane 8 Year olds surely to come after me.

    Thanks for posting this, I'll be buying my gun today!

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    No real signs of trouble with this kid.... Must be the devil! Get this boy to a church immediately!

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    the 2nd biggest lobby in the USA are alchohol distributors, these are the crooks that get paid purely to pick up booze or beer at a factory and transport it to a retailer. It's a middle man position that should have been eliminated decades ago - that lobby exists purely to keep that money flowing.

    the first biggest lobby in the USA is the NRA. take from that what you will, I personally am very suspicious of huge lobby's that pay money to politicians, to perpetrate something that defies common sense.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2870425]the 2nd biggest lobby in the USA are alchohol distributors, these are the crooks that get paid purely to pick up booze or beer at a factory and transport it to a retailer. It's a middle man position that should have been eliminated decades ago - that lobby exists purely to keep that money flowing.

    the first biggest lobby in the USA is the NRA. take from that what you will, [B][COLOR="Blue"]I personally am very suspicious of huge lobby's that pay money to politicians[/COLOR][/B], [B][COLOR="Red"]to perpetrate something that defies common sense.[/COLOR][/B][/QUOTE]

    [B][COLOR="Blue"]I agree with this part [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR="Red"]but not that part.[/COLOR][/B] You'll have to take up that argument with the Founding Fathers who thought it made enough sense that it should come only after freedom of speech in the Bill of Rights.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2870425]the first biggest lobby in the USA is the NRA[/quote]

    I'm curious. Your proof of this is?

    [QUOTE=bitonti;2870425]I personally am very suspicious of huge lobby's that pay money to politicians, to perpetrate something that defies common sense.[/QUOTE]

    You mean like Environmentalists who think Obama not only has the power to control the Earth's Climate, but can actually make the planets environemnt stop changing, via the power of wealth redistribution and liberal Government policies?

    Yea, I distrust those kinds of folks too.

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    [QUOTE=jetstream23;2870439][B][COLOR="Blue"]I agree with this part [/COLOR][/B][B][COLOR="Red"]but not that part.[/COLOR][/B] You'll have to take up that argument with the Founding Fathers who thought it made enough sense that it should come only after freedom of speech in the Bill of Rights.[/QUOTE]

    i dont believe the right to bear arms defies logic but NRA takes it to the next level. things like assault weapons, hollow tipped bullets, and of course kids with guns is a little nutty.

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    [QUOTE=Warfish;2870462]I'm curious. Your proof of this is?[/quote]

    Someone mentioned this to me the other day, I did research just now and i guess the stats aren't exactly true. Maybe the person was talking about individual lobbies instead of lobby's as a group. There are industries like Pharma and defense that have lobbied alot more than either NRA or the distributors. sO i guess I have to retract that statement. mybad.


    [QUOTE=Warfish;2870462]
    You mean like Environmentalists who think Obama not only has the power to control the Earth's Climate, but can actually make the planets environemnt stop changing, via the power of wealth redistribution and liberal Government policies?

    Yea, I distrust those kinds of folks too.[/QUOTE]

    You say "liberal government policies" like it's a curse word. If a factory was allowed to dump chemicals in a river under conservative policies but not under liberal policies that has a benefit to the public good.

    by the way warfish every scientist worth his salt believes climate change is real and if not man-made it is made worse by man's activities. You can choose not to believe that but it's basically a settled issue. Like Abortion. ;)

  20. #20
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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2870478]You say "liberal government policies" like it's a curse word. If a factory was allowed to dump chemicals in a river under conservative policies but not under liberal policies that has a benefit to the public good.[/quote]

    There is nothing about preotecting the Environemnt via logical legislation that is specificly "liberal" Bit. However, ponzi redistribution schemes meant to hurt one industy and reward a chosen few lobby groups, is a universal act by both parties.

    You tell me Bit, can Obama control the climate? Can he enact legislation that will stop the climate from changing? I don't believe he (or anyone else) can, but you might.

    [QUOTE=bitonti;2870478]by the way warfish every scientist worth his salt believes climate change is real and if not man-made it is made worse by man's activities. You can choose not to believe that but it's basically a settled issue. Like Abortion. ;)[/QUOTE]

    Your first claim is simply not true. You want choose to ignore the part of the scientific community who disagrees, but that does not eliminate the validity of them or their opinions. This isn't Evolution vs. Creationism Bit, sorry, it's just not as clear cut or remotely as "proven" as you like to think.

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