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Thread: Mike Cameron/Melky Cabrera negotiations

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    Mike Cameron/Melky Cabrera negotiations

    http://www.nypost.com/seven/12132008...ing_144010.htm

    The Brewers asked for and were denied Mark Melancon, Jose Veras and Phil Coke. They may have to settle for Kei Igawa if the Yankees eat some of the remaining $12 million on the left-handed bust.
    HA!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    I would vomit until I passed out if they traded Melancon for freaking Mike Cameron.

    Melky and Kei or no deal... worst case scenario is we give gardner a shot and even if he hits like melky did he'll atleast steal some bags. IMO this isn't so bad an option and I think Gardner will hit somewhere in the .260-.275 range which would be fine with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    LOL. Kei Igawa.

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    This trade is already awful as is. Why the hell would we trade a 23-year-old switchhitter who plays great defense for a 35-year-old strikeout machine? Melky still has the potential to be a very good player. Last time I checked, we waited years for Bernie Williams to develop into a good player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by escamoter2 View Post
    This trade is already awful as is. Why the hell would we trade a 23-year-old switchhitter who plays great defense for a 35-year-old strikeout machine? Melky still has the potential to be a very good player. Last time I checked, we waited years for Bernie Williams to develop into a good player.
    the strikeout machine is also a gold glove center fielder with pop.....i think mike Cameron is underrated by you guys. he ain't no Carlos Beltran but definitely not JAG.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K-Met57 View Post
    the strikeout machine is also a gold glove center fielder with pop.....i think mike Cameron is underrated by you guys. he ain't no Carlos Beltran but definitely not JAG.
    Maybe you are confusing 36 year old Mike Cameron with the 31 year old Mike Cameron who played on your Mets. (28-32 is generally considered the prime of a career)

    He's no longer this gold glove CF you speak of. Bernie Williams was a gold glove CF too in his career. At age 36, one of the worst defenders in the league. While Cameron is not as bad as Bernie was, he's not near gold glove caliber anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K-Met57 View Post
    the strikeout machine is also a gold glove center fielder with pop.....i think mike Cameron is underrated by you guys. he ain't no Carlos Beltran but definitely not JAG.
    LOL at this guy. Has "he ain't no Beltran" in his post and "he's no Johan" in is sig.

    So truly sad. I actually feel bad for you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by escamoter2 View Post
    This trade is already awful as is. Why the hell would we trade a 23-year-old switchhitter who plays great defense for a 35-year-old strikeout machine? Melky still has the potential to be a very good player. Last time I checked, we waited years for Bernie Williams to develop into a good player.
    Bernie Williams didn't come from nowhere, he was touted to be as good as he was, we had the patience because we knew he had it in him, if Melky Cabrera ever hits as well as Bernie, it will probably be in his dreams.

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    Jon Heyman

    http://www.fannation.com/si_blogs/hot_stove/posts/32807


    Money still sticking point in Cameron-Cabrera deal

    The on-again, off-again Mike Cameron-for-Melky Cabrera trade is said to be on the "back burner'' now as the Yankees and Brewers haven't been able to agree on how much of Kei Igawa's contract the Brewers will pay, or more specifically, how overpaid Cameron is.

    The Brewers have agreed to take Igawa and offered to pay a small portion of the $12 million remaining on Igawa's contract. But apparently the Yankees believe it is too small a portion.

    The Yankees' main contention is that Cameron is overpaid at $10 million, and the Brewers have to account for that somehow. The probable way would be to pay some of Igawa's ridiculously bloated salary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by escamoter2 View Post
    This trade is already awful as is. Why the hell would we trade a 23-year-old switchhitter who plays great defense for a 35-year-old strikeout machine? Melky still has the potential to be a very good player. Last time I checked, we waited years for Bernie Williams to develop into a good player.
    You can get Melky Cabrera for a bag of balls. He has regressed every year. His weakness is his bat speed. That is something you can never correct. He is a serviceable 5th outfielder with a decent glove.

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    Do we really need to get into the whole "Mike Cameron is worthless" and "Melky has talent" nonsense again. Go look at the other thread dedicated to this.

    Miek Cameron is an infinite upgrade over Melky Cabrera.

    However, the Yanks shouldn't do this trade and should instead sign Manny/Dunn. Period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDJETS View Post
    Do we really need to get into the whole "Mike Cameron is worthless" and "Melky has talent" nonsense again. Go look at the other thread dedicated to this.

    Miek Cameron is an infinite upgrade over Melky Cabrera.

    However, the Yanks shouldn't do this trade and should instead sign Manny/Dunn. Period.
    Who plays CF in that scenario, Swisher?

    1. Damon LF
    2. Jeter SS
    3. Rodriguez 3B
    4. Ramirez DH
    5. Dunn 1B
    6. Posada C
    7. Nady RF
    8. Swisher CF
    9. Cano 2B

    .. great offense, bad defense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tyler Durden View Post
    Who plays CF in that scenario, Swisher?

    1. Damon LF
    2. Jeter SS
    3. Rodriguez 3B
    4. Ramirez DH
    5. Dunn 1B
    6. Posada C
    7. Nady RF
    8. Swisher CF
    9. Cano 2B

    .. great offense, bad defense.
    I'll take a team with great offense, great pitching, but bad defense any day. Defense is important. But not THAT important.

    Besides, I didn't mean sign BOTH dunn and ManRam. I don't think they could afford that.

    You sign one, and have them split time in LF with Damon, who also splits time in CF with Gardner/Swisher. At 1B, you use Swisher mostly, with some combo of Dunn (if signed) or whoever.

    Also, no matter what, this Yankees team isn't going to be great on defense

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    I'm not sure where the Yankees seem to think that Cameron is overpaid that they can demand the Brewers take on any of Igawa's contract as well.

    This idea that Cameron has regressed Defensively just isn't true. He's still right up there with the best.

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstat...&Submit=Submit

    And yes, while he'll probably hit .240 and Strikeout 140 times, but he'll also hit at least 20 Home Runs and give you damn close to an 800 OPS out of your Centerfielder, while adding alot on Defense as well.

    He's a good player, and well worth 10 million to a team that wants him as a Centerfielder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ven0m View Post
    I'm not sure where the Yankees seem to think that Cameron is overpaid that they can demand the Brewers take on any of Igawa's contract as well.

    This idea that Cameron has regressed Defensively just isn't true. He's still right up there with the best.

    http://www.hardballtimes.com/thtstat...&Submit=Submit

    And yes, while he'll probably hit .240 and Strikeout 140 times, but he'll also hit at least 20 Home Runs and give you damn close to an 800 OPS out of your Centerfielder, while adding alot on Defense as well.

    He's a good player, and well worth 10 million to a team that wants him as a Centerfielder.
    I imagine the delay/stall is much more about seeing if they can sign Dunn/Manny/Tex. If they do, no Cameron trade. If not, they make the trade...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDJETS View Post
    I imagine the delay/stall is much more about seeing if they can sign Dunn/Manny/Tex. If they do, no Cameron trade. If not, they make the trade...
    I think the stall also is that Cashman doesn't want to give up a real prospect and he wants some cash back in the deal.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SDJETS View Post
    I'll take a team with great offense, great pitching, but bad defense any day. Defense is important. But not THAT important.
    I strongly disagree. Look at the WS teams this year. They were both very strong defensively. Look at how the Rays got better from 2007 to 2008 - their defense went from worst to first.

    Quote Originally Posted by SDJETS View Post
    Also, no matter what, this Yankees team isn't going to be great on defense
    I don't like that logic. Just because the Yankees aren't going to be great defensively doesn't mean you decide to get worse for the fun of it. Fact is, the Yankees have a good chance to be average to above average at every defensive position besides SS. Given that we are going to be subpar defensively at the SS position, one of the main priorities for the others should be defense.

    We just spent a ton of money on pitching. What's the point if the defense behind that pitching sucks?

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    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan View Post
    I strongly disagree. Look at the WS teams this year. They were both very strong defensively. Look at how the Rays got better from 2007 to 2008 - their defense went from worst to first.
    Yes, true, but their pitching (bullpen most specifically) and offense got a lot better. Its amazing what good pitching can do to your defense, and what a much better offense can do for both. Are you really going to try and argue that the Rays got where they did because of their defense? No, it helped, but they got where they did because of top line starting pitching, a BP that somehow went from worst to first, and an offense that finally started scoring runs.

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffWeaverFan View Post
    I don't like that logic. Just because the Yankees aren't going to be great defensively doesn't mean you decide to get worse for the fun of it. Fact is, the Yankees have a good chance to be average to above average at every defensive position besides SS. Given that we are going to be subpar defensively at the SS position, one of the main priorities for the others should be defense.

    We just spent a ton of money on pitching. What's the point if the defense behind that pitching sucks?
    Again, the pitching the Yankees have is now pitching that helps negate bad defense. Three strikeout pitchers who literally keep hitters from making solid contact.

    Would a better defense help that? Of course. But look, the Yankees aren't going to win in the AL East if they can't hit the Rays and Sox staffs, great, average, or mediocre defense be damned. Their single biggest need going into this season was upgrading their offense. They haven't done that.

    Defense is important. But scoring runs is what killed the Yankees last year, not their defense, and not their pitching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K-Met57 View Post
    the strikeout machine is also a gold glove center fielder with pop.....i think mike Cameron is underrated by you guys. he ain't no Carlos Beltran but definitely not JAG.
    Cameron is an upgrade, and if it's for Melky and Igawa, no brainer...Us Yankee fans got too in love w/ Melky, it happens...Let it go, I did!

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDJETS View Post
    Yes, true, but their pitching (bullpen most specifically) and offense got a lot better. Its amazing what good pitching can do to your defense, and what a much better offense can do for both. Are you really going to try and argue that the Rays got where they did because of their defense? No, it helped, but they got where they did because of top line starting pitching, a BP that somehow went from worst to first, and an offense that finally started scoring runs.



    Again, the pitching the Yankees have is now pitching that helps negate bad defense. Three strikeout pitchers who literally keep hitters from making solid contact.

    Would a better defense help that? Of course. But look, the Yankees aren't going to win in the AL East if they can't hit the Rays and Sox staffs, great, average, or mediocre defense be damned. Their single biggest need going into this season was upgrading their offense. They haven't done that.

    Defense is important. But scoring runs is what killed the Yankees last year, not their defense, and not their pitching.
    There have been some bad things said in this forum the past few weeks, but this one takes the cake at least for today.

    The Yankees biggest needs this offseason are:
    1) Starting pitching
    2) Starting pitching
    3) Starting pitching

    End of story. How many times and how many seasons is it going to take for people to realize that you don't mash your way to a championship? You win championships primarily on the strength of your pitching. Pitching. Pitching.

    Pitching.

    F Manny.

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