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Thread: Have we become morally bankrupt?

  1. #21
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2914663]Bernie Madoff? He made off with 50 billion...it's kind of a big story :D[/QUOTE]

    jeez, where the hell have I been? :O

  2. #22
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    [B]guys don't litter this thread with personal attacks[/B]

    Back to the republican theme that fjush is harping on, scum comes in all forms, Republican and Democratic, I don't think that had anything to do with what Madoff has done here, aside from the fact that he was a big supporter of Democratic causes. I doubt his politics had anything to do with his greed, just as I think it is silly to say the Reaganites would have a corner on that market. Is anyone greedier than the Clintons?

    The point of this thread is that there is a dearth of ethics and morality in the leadership of this country. All these wall street scandels, the Blago nonsense, the transparently self serving decisions made by our congress and senate, little things like the head of GM taking a private jet to beg for money. It's time for people to look inside or this country is lost.

  3. #23
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    [quote=pauliec;2914817]jeez, where the hell have I been? :O[/quote]
    lol...too many campari and sodas :D

  4. #24
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2914822]lol...too many campari and sodas :D[/QUOTE]

    No way. To be that clueless Paulie had to be drinking a large amount of grappa.

  5. #25
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2914819][B]guys don't litter this thread with personal attacks[/B]

    Back to the republican theme that fjush is harping on, scum comes in all forms, Republican and Democratic, I don't think that had anything to do with what Madoff has done here, aside from the fact that he was a big supporter of Democratic causes. I doubt his politics had anything to do with his greed, just as I think it is silly to say the Reaganites would have a corner on that market. Is anyone greedier than the Clintons?

    The point of this thread is that there is a dearth of ethics and morality in the leadership of this country. All these wall street scandels, the Blago nonsense, the transparently self serving decisions made by our congress and senate, little things like the head of GM taking a private jet to beg for money. It's time for people to look inside or this country is lost.[/QUOTE]

    My only real point in this regard is that I think the worst thing you can tell a generation of young people is that the best thing you can do for the world is make a lot of money and to hell with the consequences. As A person who left high School in 1988 I personally remember this message emanating from Ronald Reagan and the republican party. I think that message had a negative effect especially in combination with the slow dismantling of the regulatory structure that both Democrats and Republicans participated in over the past 30 years. No doubt, part of this is cultural and flows out of Hollywood/hip-hop culture as much as from politics. But, there is nothing I can do about culture other than live my life right and teach good values to my kids -- the part I do have some say about is policy and that we can change.

  6. #26
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    [QUOTE=sourceworx;2914846]No way. To be that clueless Paulie had to be drinking a large amount of grappa.[/QUOTE]

    I'll blame the Campari and the grappa. I enjoy both.

    Cut me some slack, this all went down last Thursday? The weekend was pretty much already started. :D

  7. #27
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2914861]I'll blame the Campari and the grappa. I enjoy both.

    Cut me some slack, this all went down last Thursday? The weekend was pretty much already started. :D[/QUOTE]

    Seriously? Since Thursday you've seen no news source outside of Jets information??

    I thought you were a well informed guy.......what happoned?

  8. #28
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2914861]I'll blame the Campari and the grappa. I enjoy both.

    Cut me some slack, this all went down last Thursday? The weekend was pretty much already started. :D[/QUOTE]

    You can really drink Campari? I drink neet Islay scotch with no water and pretty much everything else under the sun but I find Campari (and Cynar) so revoltingly bitter that I can't make myself finish it. It's probably the only food or beverage I've been served in the last 15 years that I couldn't/wouldn't finish.

    Oh, and I'll admit to never hearing of Madoff before last week.

  9. #29
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2914819][B]guys don't litter this thread with personal attacks[/B]

    Back to the republican theme that fjush is harping on, scum comes in all forms, Republican and Democratic, I don't think that had anything to do with what Madoff has done here, aside from the fact that he was a big supporter of Democratic causes. I doubt his politics had anything to do with his greed, just as I think it is silly to say the Reaganites would have a corner on that market. Is anyone greedier than the Clintons?

    The point of this thread is that there is a dearth of ethics and morality in the leadership of this country. All these wall street scandels, the Blago nonsense, the transparently self serving decisions made by our congress and senate, little things like the head of GM taking a private jet to beg for money. It's time for people to look inside or this country is lost.[/QUOTE]

    This Government is a complete and total joke It is a cancer that needs to be removed!

  10. #30
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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2914899]This Government is a complete and total joke It is a cancer that needs to be removed![/QUOTE]

    Your cure for cancer seems a lot like the one the film "I am Legend" is based on...

  11. #31
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    [QUOTE=Vilma;2914868]Seriously? Since Thursday you've seen no news source outside of Jets information??

    I thought you were a well informed guy.......what happoned?[/QUOTE]

    In all seriousness, I've been studying for the GRE pretty hardcore.

  12. #32
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    Who cares about whether this c*cksucker was a Democrat or a Republican or what is to blame for this "wave of immorality"? Reagan's ghost wasn't possessing Maddoff or Ken Lay to swindle people out of their retirement plans, life savings, and jobs; this type of greed has been around forever, we just notice it now because of technology and the speed information gets passed around. In the 1700s the East India Company exploited the riches of India while 3 million people starved to death, in the 1800s there were captains of industry who quite literally ran entire economic sectors, in the 1900s the United Fruit Company (now Chiquita foods) kept brutal dictators in power in Latin America to retain their monopolies over the fruit trade there (hence the term "Banana Republic").

    What Maddoff did shattered the confidence Americans had in "financial experts" and revealed him to be yet another crooked con artist; it didn't put a verdict on any political ideology because this corruption happens no matter what system is put in place. There are no safeguards against powerful figures who turn crooked, it's just life, but if anything can be learned from this it should be to trust no man in power to do the right thing. As the old saying goes "Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men."

  13. #33
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    [QUOTE=XingDaorong;2914940]Who cares about whether this c*cksucker was a Democrat or a Republican or what is to blame for this "wave of immorality"? Reagan's ghost wasn't possessing Maddoff or Ken Lay to swindle people out of their retirement plans, life savings, and jobs; this type of greed has been around forever, we just notice it now because of technology and the speed information gets passed around. In the 1700s the East India Company exploited the riches of India while 3 million people starved to death, in the 1800s there were captains of industry who quite literally ran entire economic sectors, in the 1900s the United Fruit Company (now Chiquita foods) kept brutal dictators in power in Latin America to retain their monopolies over the fruit trade there (hence the term "Banana Republic").

    What Maddoff did shattered the confidence Americans had in "financial experts" and revealed him to be yet another crooked con artist; it didn't put a verdict on any political ideology because this corruption happens no matter what system is put in place. There are no safeguards against powerful figures who turn crooked, it's just life, but if anything can be learned from this it should be to trust no man in power to do the right thing. As the old saying goes "Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely."[/QUOTE]

    Good point, I hope people are more vigilant about actually checking the truth of certain assertions (especially ones that seem to good to be true) before believing uncritically. That will make a better world.

    Do you not believe that weakening regulation has made it easier over the last thirty years to get a way with being a crooked con-artist for a longer period of time?

  14. #34
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    [QUOTE=jetswin;2914569]This fandango with Madoff is unbelievable to me, how is it possible for this to have gone on for this long? Where are the ethics? Where is the morality? Is all anyone cares about is making a buck and being able to smirk at those less fortunate?

    As Gordon Gecko said in that great flick 20 someodd years ago "greed is good," however I can't even imagine that character stooping to the levels of Madoff. Lives have been ruined, and those less forunate will never see the largess promised by a multitude of charities. The lesson to be learned is trust no one, but more importantly it's not what you have financially, it's what is in your heart. This world we live in right now needs some character because it is certainly lacking in the supposed leaders of industry and our political world.[/QUOTE]


    That is why GOD gave everyone free will and is letting his plan for salvation to play out. Because in the end people are sin-minded and if he let us go on without returning we would destroy ourselves. It is all coming to fruition now we are slowly destroying what America was built on and pretty soon we will be no better than a communist country or a country with kings and Queens.

  15. #35
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    [QUOTE=ucrenegade;2914949]That is why GOD gave everyone free will and is letting his plan for salvation to play out. Because in the end people are sin-minded and if he let us go on without returning we would destroy ourselves. It is all coming to fruition now we are slowly destroying what America was built on and pretty soon we will be no better than a communist country or a country with kings and Queens.[/QUOTE]

    And this is why social Conservatives can never be in charge of anything larger than a bait and tackle shop ever again.

  16. #36
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    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2914948]Good point, I hope people are more vigilant about actually checking the truth of certain assertions (especially ones that seem to good to be true) before believing uncritically. That will make a better world.

    Do you not believe that weakening regulation has made it easier over the last thirty years to get a way with being a crooked con-artist for a longer period of time?[/QUOTE]

    The whole concept of "regulations=good; or regulations=bad" becomes trivial when you start to realize that in some places we needed more regulation or needed the regulations we had to stay in place whereas in others regulations and protectionist barriers did stifle growth and hinder the ability of our companies to compete internationally. The whole debate, as is the case with every other issue, has been hijacked into being a black and white issue with Republicans screaming about "anti-growth" regulations and with Democrats whining about creating a more fair economy with "more regulations". If you listen to them long enough it becomes clear that they don't even listen to themselves when they talk or know anything about economics, because most politicians are lawyers rather than economists or businessmen before they become elected. That's not me hating on lawyers, it's just a deficiency in the system, our politicians know the laws of our country and how to twist them, but they don't know how the market works.

    As for Maddoff and what de-regulation had to do with his scheme's viability I'm not sure either, but I'm sure some hack writer at [I]The Nation[/I] or [I]The Weekly Standard[/I] is working on a paper that will blame the whole thing on one political party or another. I know the guy basically made up fake companies and financial statements for his clients to invest in, so I'm not sure how much that has to do with any policy rather than people trusting an experienced Wall Street investor with their money without so much as a second guess.

  17. #37
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    [QUOTE=pauliec;2914861]I'll blame the Campari and the grappa. I enjoy both.

    Cut me some slack, this all went down last Thursday? The weekend was pretty much already started. :D[/QUOTE]

    Man I can't drink grappa. The stuff tastes like battery acid.

    It's weird though. My old man just recently got into drinking scotch, which I enjoy. I just can't stand the grappa though. Some guinea I turned out to be.

  18. #38
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    [QUOTE=sourceworx;2914969]Man I can't drink grappa. The stuff tastes like battery acid.

    It's weird though. My old man just recently got into drinking scotch, which I enjoy. I just can't stand the grappa though. Some guinea I turned out to be.[/QUOTE]

    That's what surprises me about Paulie -- generally the older you get the more you can handle --and even prefer -- bitter flavors. If he can drink Campari at 24...sky's the limit.

  19. #39
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    [QUOTE=fukushimajin;2914992]That's what surprises me about Paulie -- generally the older you get the more you can handle --and even prefer -- bitter flavors. If he can drink Campari at 24...sky's the limit.[/QUOTE]

    I went out on Saturday night and the bartender bought me a couple rounds because she never actually saw anyone order Campari before -- I had to point it out on the shelf behind her.

  20. #40
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    [quote=XingDaorong;2914967]The whole concept of "regulati or regulati becomes trivial when you start to realize that in some places we needed more regulation or needed the regulations we had to stay in place whereas in others regulations and protectionist barriers did stifle growth and hinder the ability of our companies to compete internationally. The whole debate, as is the case with every other issue, has been hijacked into being a black and white issue with Republicans screaming about "anti-growth" regulations and with Democrats whining about creating a more fair economy with "more regulations". If you listen to them long enough it becomes clear that they don't even listen to themselves when they talk or know anything about economics, because most politicians are lawyers rather than economists or businessmen before they become elected. That's not me hating on lawyers, it's just a deficiency in the system, our politicians know the laws of our country and how to twist them, but they don't know how the market works.

    As for Maddoff and what de-regulation had to do with his scheme's viability I'm not sure either, but I'm sure some hack writer at [I]The Nation[/I] or [I]The Weekly Standard[/I] is working on a paper that will blame the whole thing on one political party or another. I know the guy basically made up fake companies and financial statements for his clients to invest in, so I'm not sure how much that has to do with any policy rather than people trusting an experienced Wall Street investor with their money without so much as a second guess.[/quote]
    Again you are concentrating on the posts that have followed the initial post, I clearly stated later that I don't care about the politics involved with this madoff scam. My point is that there is a lack of ethics by all involved, and it is somewhat unbelievable that those scammed would have no suspicions regarding the performance of this particular fund.

    Just give me my return and a wink at the club.

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