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Thread: Jets were never legit Super Bowl Contender

  1. #1
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    Jets were never legit Super Bowl Contender

    the statement on this board for the most Part is that Eric Mangini isn't a good coach, he did a poor job and deserves to be fired.

    so let's assume that's true.

    When we are saying Mangini screwed up, he did a poor job, the implication is that a good job gets them a couple more wins. Right?

    So If they had a different coach, a better motivator (like Herm lol) would this be a 13 or 14 win team?

    in other words was this 2008 Jets ever a [b]REAL Super Bowl contender?[/b]

    if you answer yes, than maybe Mangini deserves to go.

    If we are saying Mangini did a bad job that means a good job gets this team to 13 or 14 wins, i just don't see that to be the case.

    my take - the 2008 Jets are, even with Favre and Jenkins, a 9 or 10 win team max. they might win this week, they might not, but to expect more is unrealistic. the difference between this team and NE and MIA is negligable, NONE of these teams are real Super Bowl contenders, not this season. NE could have been but Brady injury took care of that. if the Jets and Pats win this weekend we are talking about two 11-5 teams, 1 10-6 team and maybe 2 of em playing in the wild card round. no first round byes... no super hot team with franchise caliber QB (like the Giants). None of these teams were legit.

    the difference is this year they won several games they should have lost (@NE, @ TEN) and lost several games they should have won (@SEA, @OAK)... but the end result is 4-12 becomes a 9 or 10 win team... just like we thought they would.

    4-12 doesn't become 13-3 or 14-2... to become a REAL super bowl contender you need more than a couple hot weeks, you need to be a winning/playoff caliber team for several years.

    Now Im not starting this thread to "defend" Mangini, my point is to ask the crowd, what were your expectations, and were they realistic? Don't focus on the fact they were 8-3 at a given point in time because Super Bowl contenders don't get created mid-season by the fans and the media. They establish themselves over years.
    Last edited by bitonti; 12-23-2008 at 04:35 PM.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2930035]

    to become a REAL super bowl contender you need more than a couple hot weeks, you need to be a winning/playoff caliber team for several years.

    [/QUOTE]

    bit, can you provide an example?

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    The 2008 NY Jets were built like a contender. Coached like a pretender.

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    no ****

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    [QUOTE=JamaicanJetFan;2930046]The 2008 NY Jets were built like a contender. Coached like a pretender.[/QUOTE]

    my response to that - the Brady injury made everyone believe they could be a contender - true contenders don't usually pick 6 in the draft prior (or 1 in the case of the Dolphins). yes the Jets had nice free agent pick ups but free agents don't get you to a super bowl, they never do.

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    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;2930043]bit, can you provide an example?[/QUOTE]

    we talk about Cowher on this board alot, how many Years did Pittsburgh make the AFC Champ before actually winning?

    a good program takes years, talent and consistancy. 2008 Jets had talent but that's about it.

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    [QUOTE=PatsFanTX;2930043]bit, can you provide an example?[/QUOTE]

    No, he can't, because it's a bitonism, and bitontisms never have substance.

    Pats - 5-11 the year before they won and barely .500 the two years prior.
    Rams - 14-33 in the 3 years preceding their win.
    Ravens - Putrid every year until their win.

    We can go on and on with this...

  8. #8
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    Bit hind sight is 20-20...

    An 8-3 team with the division record the Jets had, a victory over the hated Pats, a victory over an undefeated team (to avenge a loss to the lowly Raiders) staring at a final month of lesser opponents is a Super Bowl caliber team, no matter how you slice it.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2930035]the statement on this board for the most Part is that Eric Mangini isn't a good coach, he did a poor job and deserves to be fired.

    so let's assume that's true.

    When we are saying Mangini screwed up, he did a poor job, the implication is that a good job gets them a couple more wins. Right?

    So If they had a different coach, a better motivator (like Herm lol) would this be a 13 or 14 win team?

    in other words was this 2008 Jets ever a [b]REAL Super Bowl contender?[/b]

    if you answer yes, than maybe Mangini deserves to go.

    If we are saying Mangini did a bad job that means a good job gets this team to 13 or 14 wins, i just don't see that to be the case.

    my take - the 2008 Jets are, even with Favre and Jenkins, a 9 or 10 win team max. they might win this week, they might not, but to expect more is unrealistic. the difference between this team and NE and MIA is negligable, NONE of these teams are real Super Bowl contenders, not this season. NE could have been but Brady injury took care of that. if the Jets and Pats win this weekend we are talking about two 11-5 teams, 1 10-6 team and maybe 2 of em playing in the wild card round. no first round byes... no super hot team with franchise caliber QB (like the Giants). None of these teams were legit.

    the difference is this year they won several games they should have lost (@NE, @ TEN) and lost several games they should have won (@SEA, @OAK)... but the end result is 4-12 becomes a 9 or 10 win team... just like we thought they would.

    4-12 doesn't become 13-3 or 14-2... to become a REAL super bowl contender you need more than a couple hot weeks, you need to be a winning/playoff caliber team for several years.

    Now Im not starting this thread to "defend" Mangini, my point is to ask the crowd, what were your expectations, and were they realistic? Don't focus on the fact they were 8-3 at a given point in time because Super Bowl contenders don't get created mid-season by the fans and the media. They establish themselves over years.[/QUOTE]


    Outside of the Pats and Colts, the teams that have reached the SuperBowl in the past 15 years DO NOT fit your ridiculous definition of "REAL superbowl contender".

    You have absolutely no basis for your opinion.

  10. #10
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    Why can I not base my answer on when they were 8-3?

    Sure, when the season started I didn't expect a SB, but when you're 8-3 and have just beat the best team in your conference, in their house, convincingly, why would I not think the team is good?
    Why would I not think that they should be able to win at least 3 out of their next 5 games and make a run in the playoffs?

    Expectations change, Bit. When you show what you're truly capable of - rather than just letting people speculate - then you're held to that standard. Wipe the Titans on their home field and then not be able to show up against the 49ers and Seahawks? Unacceptable.

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    [QUOTE=RutgersJetFan;2930058]No, he can't, because it's a bitonism, and bitontisms never have substance.

    Pats - 5-11 the year before they won and barely .500 the two years prior.
    Rams - 14-33 in the 3 years preceding their win.
    Ravens - Putrid every year until their win.

    We can go on and on with this...[/QUOTE]

    you are citing exceptions. I cited the rule.

    all of the great dynasties, from Lombardi's Packers through to Noll's Steelers, to Walsh's 49ers, to Parcells Giants, to Johnson's Cowboys started modestly, built momentum and peaked roughly 5-7 years after the great draft picks. LT was drafted in 1982... Parcells won in 1986 and 1990.

    these instant turnarounds you post are the exception and by the way my original post asked were the Jets LEGIT contenders - I would argue the Pats, Rams, Ravens were not considered Legit contenders going into their year. They became contenders but the Jets never really did. It's possible but not probable.

    My point is our expectations may have fluctuated wildly but in the end this team was who we thought they were.

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    Thanks Mr. Sees-the-Future-but-Doesn't-Share.

    Nice of you to tell us this now....well after the fact. Reminds me of another poster....

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    Titans were 27-37 in the 4 years prior and 0-1 in the playoffs leading up until this season. Jets were 28-36 in that same span and 1-2 in the playoffs. Titans are a Super Bowl contender now, we are not. This in spite of blowing a top 3 draft pick on a QB in '06.

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    [QUOTE=TDJETS10;2930066]Why can I not base my answer on when they were 8-3?

    Wipe the Titans on their home field and then not be able to show up against the 49ers and Seahawks? Unacceptable.[/QUOTE]

    because if they lose to the Titans and beat up against Niners and Seahawks that's not all that acceptable either... the difference is the national media doesn't chime in and go bananas with crazy ideas about a New York super bowl. We are mad they lost but take a step back this team was never going to Tampa, We all knew that deep down.

    Let's be real Favre knows about 10 plays...they are playing Ty law at CB and I think my grandma is faster than him. this is not what Super Bowls are made out of.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2930069]you are citing exceptions. I cited the rule.

    all of the great dynasties, from Lombardi's Packers through to Noll's Steelers, to Walsh's 49ers, to Parcells Giants, to Johnson's Cowboys started modestly, built momentum and peaked roughly 5-7 years after the great draft picks. LT was drafted in 1982... Parcells won in 1986 and 1990.

    these instant turnarounds you post are the exception and by the way my original post asked were the Jets LEGIT contenders - I would argue the Pats, Rams, Ravens were not considered Legit contenders going into their year. They became contenders but the Jets never really did. It's possible but not probable.

    My point is our expectations may have fluctuated wildly but in the end this team was who we thought they were.[/QUOTE]

    Dynasty? You think Mangini's building a dynasty in the middle of this mess? You've gotta be friggin kidding me. Those turnarounds happen due to fortunate circumstances and fantastic coaching. Our downfall has come in spite of fortunate circumstances due to bad coaching.

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    Your problem is that you are confusing "dynasty contender" with "superbowl contender"

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    Winning on the road against the Pats in a game that they could have folded after the tieing td, winning on the road against the best team in the league at the time and an 8-3 record made them super bowl contenders. Favourites? No, but they showed enough in run stopping, offense and special teams to that point to indicate they had a shot.

    As for Mangini, it's not just about blowing the game to most likely not make the playoffs, it is about the way the team was coached, the utter failure to make adjustments. Totally ignoring major faults in the team because we were still winning and topped off by some very bad in game coaching decisions when it counted most.

    I have been a backer of Mangini the last two years solidly but he lost me this year, not because of the record, or gassing it late in the year but because his coaching has regressed badly. Once he got some talent all aggression left the team on defense and he never corrected it.

    I have no doubt at all that he will be back for another year or two but my confidence in him as a coach has gone from 'He is learning as a new guy he shows enough to be a good coach some day' to 'He has no clue what the problems are, he has no clue how to fix them, he is very rigid and unadaptable.'

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    [QUOTE=RutgersJetFan;2930075]Titans were 27-37 in the 4 years prior and 0-1 in the playoffs leading up until this season. Jets were 28-36 in that same span and 1-2 in the playoffs. Titans are a Super Bowl contender now, we are not. This in spite of blowing a top 3 draft pick on a QB in '06.[/QUOTE]

    fancy stats, but dude they were 10-6 last year. 10-6 can become 13-3 or 14-2. 4-12 doesn't become 13-3 or 14-2 - it never does.

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    [QUOTE=bitonti;2930078]because if they lose to the Titans and beat up against Niners and Seahawks that's not all that acceptable either... the difference is the national media doesn't chime in and go bananas with crazy ideas about a New York super bowl. We are mad they lost but take a step back this team was never going to Tampa, We all knew that deep down.

    Let's be real Favre knows about 10 plays...they are playing Ty law at CB and I think my grandma is faster than him. this is not what Super Bowls are made out of.[/QUOTE]

    Perhaps it's not what dynasties are made out of, but as several other posters have said - all it takes is some talent and a hot streak and your a SB contender these days.

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    Your record the previous year has little to do with the present year. Except maybe that expectations are low.

    Can you win a super bowl with only having won 10 games in the regular season? Yes just look to last year.

    Can you win a super bowl after completing a 4-12 season the previous year? Yes, look at the Rams.

    The team was built to win now. It only helped fuel everyone's thoughts after bring in #4 and Brady goes down. It's all on the coaching staff right now.

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