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Thread: Israel attacks on Gaza kill 200 +

  1. #81
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;2936553]Dude, enough. The fact that TheUselessOne is a piece of racist scum doesn't justify this.[/QUOTE]

    A couple of hundred ROCKETS does

  2. #82
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    [QUOTE=PraiseWorthyOne;2934424][url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7800985.stm[/url]

    more killed in 15 minutes than in 3 days during the mumbai attacks. Not much of an uproar by the news media though, I wonder if that has anything to do with who runs the show.

    just sayin....[/QUOTE]

    You are sick.

    Tell me. What how would you propose your country (USA) respond if hundreds of rockets were being launched into it day after day?

  3. #83
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    [QUOTE=JayTPenny;2938274]You are sick.

    Tell me. What how would you propose your country (USA) respond if hundreds of rockets were being launched into it day after day?[/QUOTE]



    [QUOTE]It also has nothing to do with the primitive, home made rockets of the Palestinian resistance, or because Hamas had ended the weak truce after six month of continuous Israeli blockade against one million and a half persons in the concentration camp of Gaza. And it also has nothing to do with Israel wanting to free the Israeli-French war criminal Gilad Shalit captured by Hamas.[/QUOTE]

    [url]http://www.kawther.info/wpr/2008/12/28/israel-a-morally-bankrupt-state-led-by-psychopaths[/url]

  4. #84
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    Israel bloodthirsty??

    [QUOTE]More than 170 targets were hit by IAF aircraft throughout the day. At least 230 Gazans were killed and over 780 were wounded, [b]according to Palestinian sources. Officials said at least 15 civilians were among the dead.[/b]

    The IDF released a list of some of the targets hit: the Hamas headquarters and training camp in Tel Zatar; the "Palestinian Prisoner Tower" in Gaza City that was turned into a Hamas operations center and armory; the Hamas police academy, which was bombed during a graduation ceremony, killing 70-80 people; training camps in southern and central Gaza; the former office of Yasser Arafat in Gaza City that is now used by Hamas Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh; and the Izzadin Kassam Brigades headquarters in the northern Gaza Strip.

    Throughout the initial stages of the air operation, the IDF Gaza Coordination and Liaison Administration [b]transmitted messages to civilians in Gaza[/b] to stay away from Kassam launch sites and Hamas buildings and infrastructure. [/QUOTE]

    Clearly Israel is not interested in wholesale killing of innocent civilians. 230 dead and only 17 were civs? Do the ragheads do the same? Nope! All Jews, men, women, children, are targets of equal value to them! :steamin:

  5. #85
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    [QUOTE=PraiseWorthyOne;2934424][url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7800985.stm[/url]

    more killed in 15 minutes than in 3 days during the mumbai attacks. Not much of an uproar by the news media though, I wonder if that has anything to do with who runs the show.

    just sayin....[/QUOTE]

    Yup, India deserved it since they keep lobbing rockets and mortars into Pakistan! Excellent analogy!! Give that man a prize on April 1st!

  6. #86
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    [quote=MnJetFan;2938201]Yes The USA for one, In fact we send millions of dollars in aide all over the world. The Muslim countries do Jack ****![/quote]

    Actually, muslim countries send millions of dollars to the palestinians - unfortunately, much of it is in the form of aid for terror groups

  7. #87
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    [quote=Jetdawgg;2938289][URL]http://www.kawther.info/wpr/2008/12/28/israel-a-morally-bankrupt-state-led-by-psychopaths[/URL][/quote]

    You, my friend, are quoting one serious nutjob. Hamas rockets are "primitive, homemade" non-threats? I'll believe that from you when you spend a month in Sderot with a couple of hundred being lobbed at you with regularity. Put your money where your mouth is.

    Gilad Schalit is a "war criminal"? Yeah, because he's a soldier in the IDF (and all Israeli soldiers are war criminals by definition)

    I also like the fact that you left out this pearl of wisdom from what appears to be your new favorite source:

    [QUOTE][B][FONT=Verdana]The Israeli military “Operation Cast Lead” did not begin as a result of adduced “self defense” against Palestinian rockets,[/FONT] [I]which appear to be made and shot for the most part in Israel itself or distributed by the employees of Shin Bet Chief Yuval Diskin, the Israeli intelligence system[/I], to collaborators within the Palestinian resistance.[/B][/QUOTE]

    What, her proposition that Israel was supplying the rockets to Palestinian terrorists was too nuts for even you to believe?

    But wait, there's more:

    [QUOTE]Above this, and given the strong suspicion that the Israeli intelligence, either under Yuval Diskin or in the IDF, gave the rockets to Palestinian infiltrators purporting to work as resistance in Gaza, this is itself the height of criminality.

    The nations of the world should stop Israel before they are all crushed by what the Israeli spies from Shabak and Mossad are doing. The alternative is for all peoples to suffer in the future what we Palestinians must suffer, for that is what is written in their books.
    [/QUOTE]

    So, your new favorite source is a paranoid jew-hating loon. That speaks real well for her other proclamations (like "the real reason Israel is doing this"). It speaks even more about who [B]you[/B] are, Jetdawgg. And don't tell me you didn't know it, either - I'm quoting the very same post you did.

  8. #88
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    [quote=asuusa;2938619]Clearly Israel is not interested in wholesale killing of innocent civilians. 230 dead and only 17 were civs? Do the [B]ragheads[/B] do the same? Nope! All Jews, men, women, children, are targets of equal value to them! :steamin:[/quote]

    Seriously, could the rest of you folks defending Israel stop acting like racist asshats? Aside from the fact that it takes away from an otherwise very good point (the next time a Palestinian attack has less than 10% noncombatant casualties will likely be the first), you aren't doing the rest of us any favors.

  9. #89
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;2936435]No, tragedies, plain and simple. And if their deaths were avoidable with militarily justifiable precautions, criminal. What's your point?[/QUOTE]

    A dead kid is a dead kid...no matter how much the killers "didn't mean" to kill them. God doesn't give a rats a** if there was "militarily justifiable precautions" or not. All he sees is an endless stream of dead kids coming from a part of the world where two sides have been arguing over the same retarded piece of land for thousands of years now. It's beyond ridiculous.

    This is a war that will never ever have an end...ever. Sending tanks and soldiers into Palestinian occupied areas will accomplish absolutely nothing...just like Palestinians firing rockets into Israel does nothing.

  10. #90
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    [quote=PlumberKhan;2939164]A dead kid is a dead kid...no matter how much the killers "didn't mean" to kill them. [/quote]

    From the perspective of the kid and the people impacted by the kid's death, absolutely.

    But from a policy perspective? Absolutely not.

    The fact is, Plumber, questions like "was there a legitimate military target" and "was the attack directed at that target in such a way as to minimize noncombatant casualties" are truly important. Because when you start looking at things from a macro perspective, you realize that doing away with those distinctions will result in more dead kids, not fewer.

    What do I mean?

    Well, if placing military targets in civilian areas effectively immunizes those targets from legal attack, what do you think will happen?

    Hint - look at how Hezbollah fought in Lebanon.

    And what will the results of that be?

    More dead kids, more dead civilians. Because if you give nations a choice between surviving as war criminals (by attacking those military installations) or dying legally (since no legal counter attack was possible), they will (and should) choose survival every time. As Justice Cardozo (I believe - him or Learned Hand) once famously wrote about the Constitution, international law is not a suicide pact. And that understanding is the reason why the Geneva Conventions require military personnel to have distinguishing uniforms, and for military installations to be separated from civilian surroundings.

    So, if you want fewer dead kids, the questions to ask are "was there a legitimate military target? Did the attacker take all feasible means to avoid non-combatant fatalities?"

    And if the answers are yes and yes, then the dead kid is still a tragedy - but not (and shouldn't be) a crime. If either answer is no, then the dead kid is a tragedy, and a crime.

  11. #91
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    The world would be better off if both sides eliminated each other

  12. #92
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    [QUOTE=MnJetFan;2938201]Yes The USA for one, In fact we send millions of dollars in aide all over the world. The Muslim countries do Jack ****![/QUOTE]

    You sure about that?
    Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan have absorbed a tremendous number of Palestinian and Iraqi refugees. Much more than their infrastructure could reasonably be expected to absorb.

  13. #93
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    This is for Doggin:

    Do you honestly believe that this round of attacks is intended to stop the launching of missles towards Israel. How is that going to happen? How do you realistically expect the Palestinians (regular , peaceful civilians) to respond to this latest Israeli massacre?? Do you think they will be sympathetic to Israel?

    This is nothing more than a political ploy in an election year for the ruling party to look tough and get a few more votes. Palestinian lives are just a small price to pay to win an election. If Israel couldnt kill them through starvation and blocking medical supplies, they will do it directly with their billions of dollars worth of military spending.

    People around here dont realize that police officers are civilians. The police that Israel targeted are not military. They are incharge of keeping peace and order amongst the Palestinians. Much like our police here. The police are not firing off those missles towards Israel. The reason they were targeted was to create more chaos. Israel has a track record of destroying civilian infrastructure in their attacks. First they blockade Gaza cutting off food, medical supplies and keeping Gazans from going to work in Israel-> the intention to keep the Gazans oppressed. Then they destroy their infrastructure. If Israel really gave a damn about those missles (which are morelike fireworks than missles) they would destroy the source.

    Instead Israel bombs:
    1. A University
    2. A Pharmacy
    3. Civilian Homes and Medical Centers
    4. A Mosque
    5. A television station
    6. A graduating ceremony for new police recruits

    [url]http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m50010&hd=&size=1&l=e[/url]
    [url]http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/12/20081227193910425276.html[/url]
    [url]http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSLR1342320081227?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&sp=true[/url]



    But im sure most of the extremists here will likely agree with what Israeli civil defense official in the Sderot areaOfer Schmerling said:
    "I will play music and celebrate what the Israeli air force is doing."

  14. #94
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    [QUOTE][SIZE="3"][B]The neighborhood bully strikes again [/B][/SIZE]

    By Gideon Levy



    Israel embarked yesterday on yet another unnecessary, ill-fated war. On July 16, 2006, four days after the start of the Second Lebanon War, I wrote: "Every neighborhood has one, a loud-mouthed bully who shouldn't be provoked into anger... Not that the bully's not right - someone did harm him. But the reaction, what a reaction!"

    Two and a half years later, these words repeat themselves, to our horror, with chilling precision. Within the span of a few hours on a Saturday afternoon, the IDF sowed death and destruction on a scale that the Qassam rockets never approached in all their years, and Operation "Cast Lead" is only in its infancy.

    Once again, Israel's violent responses, even if there is justification for them, exceed all proportion and cross every red line of humaneness, morality, international law and wisdom.
    Advertisement

    What began yesterday in Gaza is a war crime and the foolishness of a country. History's bitter irony: A government that went to a futile war two months after its establishment - today nearly everyone acknowledges as much - embarks on another doomed war two months before the end of its term.

    In the interim, the loftiness of peace was on the tip of the tongue of Ehud Olmert, a man who uttered some of the most courageous words ever said by a prime minister. The loftiness of peace on the tip of his tongue, and two fruitless wars in his sheath. Joining him is his defense minister, Ehud Barak, the leader of the so-called left-wing party, who plays the role of senior accomplice to the crime.

    Israel did not exhaust the diplomatic processes before embarking yesterday on another dreadful campaign of killing and ruin. The Qassams that rained down on the communities near Gaza turned intolerable, even though they did not sow death. But the response to them needs to be fundamentally different: diplomatic efforts to restore the cease-fire - the same one that was initially breached, one should remember, by Israel when it unnecessarily bombed a tunnel - and then, if those efforts fail, a measured, gradual military response.

    But no. It's all or nothing. The IDF launched a war yesterday whose end, as usual, is hoping someone watches over us.

    Blood will now flow like water. Besieged and impoverished Gaza, the city of refugees, will pay the main price. But blood will also be unnecessarily spilled on our side. In its foolishness, Hamas brought this on itself and on its people, but this does not excuse Israel's overreaction.

    The history of the Middle East is repeating itself with despairing precision. Just the frequency is increasing. If we enjoyed nine years of quiet between the Yom Kippur War and the First Lebanon War, now we launch wars every two years. As such, Israel proves that there is no connection between its public relations talking points that speak of peace, and its belligerent conduct.

    Israel also proves that it has not internalized the lessons of the previous war. Once again, this war was preceded by a frighteningly uniform public dialogue in which only one voice was heard - that which called for striking, destroying, starving and killing, that which incited and prodded for the commission of war crimes.

    Once again the commentators sat in television studios yesterday and hailed the combat jets that bombed police stations, where officers responsible for maintaining order on the streets work. Once again, they urged against letting up and in favor of continuing the assault. Once again, the journalists described the pictures of the damaged house in Netivot as "a difficult scene." Once again, we had the nerve to complain about how the world was transmitting images from Gaza. And once again we need to wait a few more days until an alternative voice finally rises from the darkness, the voice of wisdom and morality.

    In another week or two, those same pundits who called for blows and more blows will compete among themselves in leveling criticism at this war. And once again this will be gravely late.

    The pictures that flooded television screens around the world yesterday showed a parade of corpses and wounded being loaded into and unloaded from the trunks of private cars that transported them to the only hospital in Gaza worthy of being called a hospital. Perhaps we once again need to remember that we are dealing with a wretched, battered strip of land, most of whose population consists of the children of refugees who have endured inhumane tribulations.

    For two and a half years, they have been caged and ostracized by the whole world. The line of thinking that states that through war we will gain new allies in the Strip; that abusing the population and killing its sons will sear this into their consciousness; and that a military operation would suffice in toppling an entrenched regime and thus replace it with another one friendlier to us is no more than lunacy.

    Hezbollah was not weakened as a result of the Second Lebanon War; to the contrary. Hamas will not be weakened due to the Gaza war; to the contrary. In a short time, after the parade of corpses and wounded ends, we will arrive at a fresh cease-fire, as occurred after Lebanon, exactly like the one that could have been forged without this superfluous war.

    In the meantime, let us now let the IDF win, as they say. A hero against the weak, it bombed dozens of targets from the air yesterday, and the pictures of blood and fire are designed to show Israelis, Arabs and the entire world that the neighborhood bully's strength has yet to wane. When the bully is on a rampage, nobody can stop him.


    [url]http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1050459.html[/url][/QUOTE]

    Im always amazed how even the Israeli newspaper is more objective that the US media. At least they have the courage to speak out when Israel is wrong, unlike the cowards in our media.

  15. #95
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    [quote=kennyo7;2939318]You sure about that?
    Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan have [B]absorbed[/B] a tremendous number of Palestinian and Iraqi refugees. Much more than their infrastructure could reasonably be expected to absorb.[/quote]

    I think I'll respond to this after I stop laughing at it. Get back to me in about a week.

  16. #96
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2939429]Im always amazed how even the Israeli newspaper is more objective that the US media. At least they have the courage to speak out when Israel is wrong, unlike the cowards in our media.[/QUOTE]

    This is from an Israeli newspaper?

  17. #97
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    [quote=kennyo7;2939411]This is for Doggin:

    Do you honestly believe that this round of attacks is intended to stop the launching of missles towards Israel. How is that going to happen? How do you realistically expect the Palestinians (regular , peaceful civilians) to respond to this latest Israeli [B]massacre[/B]?? Do you think they will be sympathetic to Israel? [/quote]

    1) I honestly don't care how they respond. There comes a point in time when you have to get past winning hearts and minds and simply protect your own populace. Several years of rockets being launched at civilian cities has Israel at and well beyond that point.

    2) "Massacre"? Wow, Kenny, unreasonable propaganda? From you? I am shocked - no, seriously, not being sarcastic at all. I never would have expected that from you :rolleyes:

    Lets run through those numbers again. ~230 killed. ~15 civilians - the rest members of Hamas. Yup, how horrible and illegal, for Israel to attack Hamas targets.


    [QUOTE]People around here dont realize that police officers are civilians. The police that Israel targeted are not military. They are incharge of keeping peace and order amongst the Palestinians. Much like our police here. The police are not firing off those missles towards Israel.[/QUOTE]

    Bull****, Kenny. Those "police officers" were [B]Hamas[/B] policemen. And the Hamas police has been involved in multiple attacks against Israel.



    [QUOTE]The reason they were targeted was to create more chaos. Israel has a track record of destroying civilian infrastructure in their attacks. First they blockade Gaza cutting off food, medical supplies and keeping Gazans from going to work in Israel-> the intention to keep the Gazans oppressed. [/QUOTE]

    Or, you know, the intention being to keep the Gazans from entering Israel and killing as many civilians as they can reach. And whaddaya know - it works.


    [QUOTE]
    Then they destroy their infrastructure. If Israel really gave a damn about those missles (which are morelike fireworks than missles) they would destroy the source.

    Instead Israel bombs:
    1. A University
    2. A Pharmacy
    3. Civilian Homes and Medical Centers
    4. A Mosque
    5. A television station
    6. A graduating ceremony for new police recruits

    [URL]http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m50010&hd=&size=1&l=e[/URL]
    [URL]http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2008/12/20081227193910425276.html[/URL]
    [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSLR1342320081227?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&sp=true"]http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSLR1342320081227?[/URL]
    [URL="http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSLR1342320081227?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&sp=true"]feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&sp=true[/URL][/QUOTE]

    Yes - they attacked infrastructure used by Hamas for command, control and support of terrorism. More than 90% of those killed were combatants (which should tell you something about the targets).

    And to the extent that they needed to target something that might have civilians get hurt, Israel [B]called ahead and warned them[/B]:

    [QUOTE]Israel telephoned some Palestinians to warn them their homes were targeted and they should leave to avoid being killed. In at least one instance a home was bombed after the occupants left.[/QUOTE]

    Yep, clearly Israel's goal is to maximize civilian casualties. :rolleyes: Odd that you didn't quote that portion of the article you linked to, Kenny.

    [quote]But im sure most of the extremists here will likely agree with what Israeli civil defense official in the Sderot areaOfer Schmerling said:
    "I will play music and celebrate what the Israeli air force is doing."[/quote]

    Damn straight, and you would too if you lived in Sderot.

    Again, put your money where your mouth is, Kenny. Think the Palestinian rockets are just a nuisance? Go live in Sderot for a month and then tell me how you feel. Until then, you're welcome to your opinion, and I'm welcome to ridicule it.

  18. #98
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    [quote=pauliec;2939498]This is from an Israeli newspaper?[/quote]

    Yep - Ha'aretz is Israel's far left wing paper, and it is stridently anti military action in pretty much all circumstances. Gideon Levy (the author) was pretty dead set against Operation Defensive Shield as well. Of course, the result of that particular military operation was that Israel broke the back of a 2-3 year long campaign of suicide bombings that was destroying Israel's day-to-day life and saved an untold number of lives.

    Levy was right about the October War, though for the wrong reasons (the real trouble with Israel's attack on Lebanon was strategy and tactics - attacking Lebanon as a whole and doing it almost entirely from the air - rather than conception). But you know what they say about broken watches . . .

  19. #99
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    [QUOTE=kennyo7;2939411]



    Instead Israel bombs:
    1. A University
    2. A Pharmacy
    3. Civilian Homes and Medical Centers
    4. A Mosque
    5. A television station
    6. A graduating ceremony for new police recruits

    [/QUOTE]

    The bottom line is that the Palestinians themselves said only 17 of 230 dead were civs, so as they did in Iraq, if the ragheads use civ areas and buildings for their OPS, you have to take them out also!
    Last edited by asuusa; 12-29-2008 at 10:57 AM.

  20. #100
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    [QUOTE=doggin94it;2938677]You, my friend, are quoting one serious nutjob. Hamas rockets are "primitive, homemade" non-threats? I'll believe that from you when you spend a month in Sderot with a couple of hundred being lobbed at you with regularity. Put your money where your mouth is.

    Gilad Schalit is a "war criminal"? Yeah, because he's a soldier in the IDF (and all Israeli soldiers are war criminals by definition)

    I also like the fact that you left out this pearl of wisdom from what appears to be your new favorite source:



    What, her proposition that Israel was supplying the rockets to Palestinian terrorists was too nuts for even you to believe?

    But wait, there's more:



    So, your new favorite source is a paranoid jew-hating loon. That speaks real well for her other proclamations (like "the real reason Israel is doing this"). It speaks even more about who [B]you[/B] are, Jetdawgg. And don't tell me you didn't know it, either - I'm quoting the very same post you did.[/QUOTE]

    I first of all don't think that she is a nut job. I think that there is a population of people fed up in the world with the aggressive overtures and the nature of what has been transpiring in Palestine by Israel.

    To be critical of Israel is not wrong. Hell, I criticize the USA gov't and have sworn to defend it with my life. Wrong is wrong and I think that the Israeli position is extreme.

    If they are not doing this for votes it clearly has the appearance for this to be happening.

    To think that Israel does not advance false flag operations is unrealistic. The USS Liberty and the Lavon Affair and perhaps even the Marine Barracks Bombing in 1983 can show that Israel can advance those operations.

    [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavon_Affair[/url]

    [url]http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/margolis12.html[/url]

    id=waOc_MDIAWMC&pg=PA64&lpg=PA64&dq=marine+captain+stops+idf&source=web&ots=HX7bgAX1rL&sig=buufqvTJjdw5FluIOVOG2mFn7HE#PPA64,M1

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